Yeast washing quick question please

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jflongo

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I just racked my Irish Red beer into a carboy, and i'm sterilizing a 48 oz spaghetti jar right now and it's lid, then will put the water and jar into the fridge to cool. I have closed my bucket and sealed it and left the air lock in.

Once cool, I plan on dumping the water into the bucket, swirling it around, and then pouring 48oz of that into the jar and sealing it.

The question is, I don't have any pint jars right now, so will probably go out and buy a few later today. Is it ok to leave the 48oz jar in the fridge this way for a few days, and then do the next washings when i get the smaller jars? I figured i'll turn this into two pint size yeast containers in a few days.

Or do i need to rush out and get them now?
 
Any that can help me with this question?

Also, this is in a fermenting bucket. Do I need to spray sanitizer on the side of the bucket where I am pouring this out?
 
Yes, you can leave it for a few days in the big jar and split it later. I've just finished doing this same thing last night. The first step should actually be to swirl up in your large jar, let rest for 20-30 minutes so the trub can settle, and then decant to get the good yeast solution separated from the thick trub. Effectively, one large jar into one large jar.

No, no need to spray sanitizer on the side of your bucket. Also, be careful of foreign drops of water when pouring from vessel to vessel (i.e. condensation drops, sanitizer drops, etc). Use a clean paper towel to dry the container you're pouring out of before pouring to avoid these drops.
 
Yes, you can leave it for a few days in the big jar and split it later. I've just finished doing this same thing last night. The first step should actually be to swirl up in your large jar, let rest for 20-30 minutes so the trub can settle, and then decant to get the good yeast solution separated from the thick trub. Effectively, one large jar into one large jar.

No, no need to spray sanitizer on the side of your bucket. Also, be careful of foreign drops of water when pouring from vessel to vessel (i.e. condensation drops, sanitizer drops, etc). Use a clean paper towel to dry the container you're pouring out of before pouring to avoid these drops.

Ok thanks. Currently I have ONLY 1 48oz jar I have sanitized. I need to buy more.
 
Or you can just pour it all into the jars you have and save that.

Yeast washing removes some of the protein and other trub, but also removes 95% of the viable yeast.

To quickly sanitize a clean glass jar I have a spray bottle with whiskey in it. I spray it, let it sit for a few seconds, then rinse it. Most of the time you can skip the rinse because there's nothing wrong with drinking whiskey.

See here:
http://woodlandbrew.blogspot.com/2013/01/yeast-washing-revisited.html

Here is the simple way I save yeast:
http://woodlandbrew.blogspot.com/2013/01/yeast-storage.html
 
Well what I did, was instead of pouring all 48 oz of water in, i poured about 20 oz in, swirled it around a good bit, and then filled up about 90% of the jar and closed the lid. I'll check it in about an hour to see what kind of separation happens.

When I siphoned the beer today, I didn't hardly leave any of the liquid. Maybe about 8 oz. So hopefully there won't be a ton of beer in it.
 
Based on what woodlandbrew indicates, you don't need to worry about separating any layers/trub/proteins/etc. Just split your large jar into equal smaller jars and store. You'll retain a much higher cell count this way with only a slightly less viability. PLUS, it's much easier :D

Thanks Woodlandbrew!!

For the record, my process goes like this:
-Siphon off as much beer as possible (I usually have about 4-8 oz left in carboy)
-Pour in about 32 oz preboiled chilled water
-Swirl it all up in the carboy into a very thick slurry (I usually swirl to get sediment into the slurry but leave a ring of caked material on bottom of carboy). This caked material is usually the most darkly colored trubby stuff.
-Pour slurry into 64 oz jar, top up with preboiled chilled water, and give a good shaking (consistency is like mud)
-Wait 20 minutes, pour 95% of the mud-thick slurry into containers for storage, and top up containers with preboiled chilled water. The 5% left behind is again usually the most coarse, darkly colored material.
-After refrigerating for days, I usually have 1/3-1/2 full pint and halfpint containers. I aim to minimize loss of good yeast material but strive to leave behind some trub material. I also attempt to use clean boiled prechilled water at every step to reduce "beer" content, and to reduce headspace in my containers as much as possible.
 
Based on what woodlandbrew indicates, you don't need to worry about separating any layers/trub/proteins/etc. Just split your large jar into equal smaller jars and store. You'll retain a much higher cell count this way with only a slightly less viability. PLUS, it's much easier :D

Thanks Woodlandbrew!!

For the record, my process goes like this:
-Siphon off as much beer as possible (I usually have about 4-8 oz left in carboy)
-Pour in about 32 oz preboiled chilled water
-Swirl it all up in the carboy into a very thick slurry (I usually swirl to get sediment into the slurry but leave a ring of caked material on bottom of carboy). This caked material is usually the most darkly colored trubby stuff.
-Pour slurry into 64 oz jar, top up with preboiled chilled water, and give a good shaking (consistency is like mud)
-Wait 20 minutes, pour 95% of the mud-thick slurry into containers for storage, and top up containers with preboiled chilled water. The 5% left behind is again usually the most coarse, darkly colored material.

Yep I agree, I didn't add too much water. After I put it in the jar, I lightly shook it for about 10 seconds. So now it's sitting on the counter sealed. I'll give it a solid hour to see what the seperation looks like.

Now as far as storage, I probably won't get jars until tomorrow, or maybe clean out a few in the fridge and use them ;)

Should I store this in the fridge or on the counter for now?
 
I always go with fridge but my guess is that it won't make much difference for a day. The pressure in the container seems to NOT build as quickly in a fridge.
 
I'm still not seeing much separation at all. I just released the lid a little, let out some CO2, re-sealed it and put it in the fridge. I'll check it again in an hour.
 
After 1 hr on the counter(release co2 resealed), and 1 hr in the fridge, this is still what it looks like.

2013-01-24 14.02.51.jpg
 
In my opinion, I wouldn't worry about it. I'd split that into two containers and store them for your next batches. It's probably closer to three batches worth but the looks of it make me think there's a fair amount of non-yeast stuff and overpitching by a little is (IMO) better than underpitching. Overall, it looks like you've saved yourself some money on yeast for a couple batches :D (and, of course, you can harvest again from your next batches).
 
Ok thank you, and SORRY about all the questions. This is the FIRST time I have attempted this. This is an Irish Ale Yeast, and since my next recipe calls for an Irish Ale Yeast as well, I will be using this :D

Also, I just posted this in another area. Smack Packs are 4.25 oz, so just a little over 1/4 pint. Any idea how a pint of harvested yeast ROUGHLY compares to 1/4 pint of smack pack yeast?
 
Also, I just posted this in another area. Smack Packs are 4.25 oz, so just a little over 1/4 pint. Any idea how a pint of harvested yeast ROUGHLY compares to 1/4 pint of smack pack yeast?

This is TOTALLY a woodlandbrew type of question. He'll have an answer that's backed by actual observation/study/research than I will.

I would start by saying, first and foremost, that it's completely dependent on your process.

A smackpack might yield 4+ oz of fluid when it's dumped but a significant portion of that is liquid. The yeast are in a thin slurry (i.e. lots of liquid) and the internal pack is simply nutritious wort. A complete shot in the dark would be that maybe an ounce of the contents is actual yeast.

A washed pint, when well settled, can vary from 1/4" across the bottom to 80% full of yeast. The job then becomes determining how much of that is yeast, and how much of the yeast is viable with good vitality. This is where woodlandbrew has the equipment to give a better answer. I simply break it down with percentages and err on the side of less than.

For instance, I have a 2 month pint that's half full of well-settled yeast and it looks moderately clean. Based on how clean it looks (fine particles, lack of chunky pieces, low to no dark matter on bottom) I would guess that 75% is yeast, the remainder is crap. Based on how long the yeast has been stored and the condition it's been stored it I would guess how much of the yeast is still in good shape. If it's been less than a month then I would guess decently high with it going down from there. If it's been 4 months, I would aim at the 40% range or less. In this case, I would say that the viability is probably in the 75% range at 2 months (total guess, it's probably better than 75). One pint, half full, 75% yeast, 75% viability, makes for about ~1/2 cup of good yeast. Again, I would have to guess a weight and would probably guess around 5 ounces (assuming it's denser than water). After guessing how much yeast I have, I'd estimate that I'm too high by about 20-25%, therefore I'd have about 4 ounces of good yeast. Compared to a smackpack (~1 ounce of yeast), my half-full pint of decently clean and viable washed yeast is about 4x the amount in a smackpack. HOWEVER, I would still put this in a 1L starter for any beers over 1.040 if it's been stored longer than about three weeks.

You can tell that, for me, it's a game of guesses and estimation. This is why it's such a valuable resource to have woodlandbrew's input on these things :D
 
Ok thank you, and SORRY about all the questions. This is the FIRST time I have attempted this. This is an Irish Ale Yeast, and since my next recipe calls for an Irish Ale Yeast as well, I will be using this :D

Also, I just posted this in another area. Smack Packs are 4.25 oz, so just a little over 1/4 pint. Any idea how a pint of harvested yeast ROUGHLY compares to 1/4 pint of smack pack yeast?

is that WLP004? I counted a slurry of that recently at about 300 million per ml. Things are busy here, but tomorrow I'll give you some more information. From the ABV and time in the fermentor you can get a rough idea of viability as well.

Stpug knows what he is talking about.

I'll test it for free if you are interested. See the "yeast lab" tab on my blog for details.
 
I don't remember the EXACT type of yeast, i'm assuming it was WLP004, it was a WYeast Irish Ale liquid yeast.

Irish Red Beer, OG 1058, 1014 when I racketed it out of my fermenting bucket into a carboy. 9 days in primary.

Now i'm seeing a little bit of liquid at the top, not a ton. Do you think I should let it come to room temperature, pour off the tiny bit at the top, put this in 3 16oz jars, top off with distilled water, mix, and store in the fridge? Does that sound like a good plan.
 
I went into Mrmalty, put
1058 OG(guess), 5.25 gallons, 40% viability(guess)
Chose
Repitching from slurry
yeast concentration about a 1/3 way up
non-yeast % at 25

Told me #ml of yeast needed 279

So it sounds like I could put 1/2 pint(or about 3/4 cup) of the slurry in a 1L starter, and that should suffice.

Maybe when I go to the store, i'll try and find some pint jars, decant my jar a little, pour the big jar into 3 sanitized pint jars about 1/2 - 3/4 of the way. Then i'll just throw the whole 1/2 - 3/4 pint in a 1L starter, the day before a brew day.
 
If this was a fresh yeastcake that you collected in the past week or two then I would say your viability is much higher - 70% and more likely much better.

Your collection looks very thick to me but maybe it's just the photo is deceiving. I would up the yeast concentration slider to ~3.7 (80% of the way to the right). Non-yeast is good at 25% based on the photo.

These adjustments on mrmalty would dictate using about 100 ml of slurry. IMO, this would be too little for comfort for me, especially if I wasn't looking to get some good esters from the yeast. I would still used at least 1/3 of what you have collected, and split the remainder into two containers (half-pints) and top off with sterile water (boiled and chilled, but distilled might be fine).
 
If this was a fresh yeastcake that you collected in the past week or two then I would say your viability is much higher - 70% and more likely much better.

Your collection looks very thick to me but maybe it's just the photo is deceiving. I would up the yeast concentration slider to ~3.7 (80% of the way to the right). Non-yeast is good at 25% based on the photo.

These adjustments on mrmalty would dictate using about 100 ml of slurry. IMO, this would be too little for comfort for me, especially if I wasn't looking to get some good esters from the yeast. I would still used at least 1/3 of what you have collected, and split the remainder into two containers (half-pints) and top off with sterile water (boiled and chilled, but distilled might be fine).

I made those adjustments and yes it puts me around 100 mils, which is a little under a 1/4 pint. I will let the jar come to room temperature, decant a tiny bit off the top, fill 3 pint mason jars a little past 1/2 way, and top with water, shake them, and put them in the fridge. I probably won't be brewing for another week or so.

The day before brew day, i'll get the jar back to room temperature, and do a 1L starter for it.
 
I pulled the jar out last night, and a few minutes ago, I soaked my pint jars in sterilized water, then filled each jar about 1/3 full, and topped of with water i previously boiled awhile back. I figured in about a week when I do my oatmeal stout, i'll decant one, and do a 1L starter with it, and see how it goes. This picture is after about 15 min in the fridge.

2013-01-26 10.25.23.jpg
 
First time rinsing here ended up with two half pints-pics from one night in fridg jar on right looks like yeast is on the bottom--should I use all of that for a starter after pouring the top off ??
These two jars is the yeast from what I had left from four pints of rinse

DSCN0819.jpg
 
Looks good to me. Yeah, pour off the top liquid, put into a starter, and use for a batch.

For both jflongo and browder, the starter process is up to you, but 1L is probably sufficient since you're starting with what looks to be plenty of yeast. I either do my starter about 18 hours in advance with the idea that I'll pitch the whole liter at high krausen (or just thereafter); or, I do my starter about 2-3 days in advance so I can let it complete (about 24 hours on stirplate) and then into the fridge to crash cool so I can decant and only pitch the yeast slurry. Both have worked well for me. I typically see a quicker start with high krausen pitches but only by an hour or two. I typically see movement in the beer about 2-8 hours after pitching using either method.
 
Thanks for the quick reply stpug--this is the second time I've saved yeast the first time I didn't do a rinse and pitched the yeast layer into my bucket--after a couple weeks ferment there was a green rubber looking layer across the entire bucket and wasn't sure what I did wrong-I put that batch to the curb--was it infected or just to much unwashed yeast in the batch ?
 
Thanks for the quick reply stpug--this is the second time I've saved yeast the first time I didn't do a rinse and pitched the yeast layer into my bucket--after a couple weeks ferment there was a green rubber looking layer across the entire bucket and wasn't sure what I did wrong-I put that batch to the curb--was it infected or just to much unwashed yeast in the batch ?
Whether you water wash yeast before storage or not there is change for contamination. I've been reusing yeast for a while without the water wash and haven't had a problem. If you use pellet hops in the boil it can cause the krausen to be green. Did the beer smell or taste bad?
 
First time rinsing here ended up with two half pints-pics from one night in fridg jar on right looks like yeast is on the bottom--should I use all of that for a starter after pouring the top off ??
These two jars is the yeast from what I had left from four pints of rinse

Very nice looking yeast.

If it's from a slurry then 500 million to 2 billion cells per ml is reasonable, and the viability will be dependent on the amount of alcohol and how long it sat in the primary. (Post coming 2/6 on my blog about that)

If it is from a starter made with DME then it is probably 1-2 billion per ml with 95% viability.

Tests I have done indicate that 1 billion cells are generated for every gram of DME used. If you want to use one of the popular calculators, they are based on a 9°P (1.036) wort. The "stir plate" setting seem to match my numbers despite that I don't stir plate, I just shake it really well once when pitching.

See here for details:
http://woodlandbrew.blogspot.com/2013/01/starter-cell-growth.html
 
This yeast came from my first AG boil but I did dump a 1lb bag of DME in the pot and glad I had it--gravity reading the day of this yeast harvest was 1.15 OG 1.44 little lower than I was shootin for but I'm good with it--looking for 4-4.5 ABV
The yeast was WY1010 American Wheat--air lock was active for three full days and stopped on the 4th day


The bucket that had the green lookin layer on top was two yrs. ago it smelt awesome and looked good once it was scooped off--it was kinda thick I remember poking threw it with a siphon tube and was surprised it was so thick and all one piece covering the entire top of the bucket--if I remember rite it was a Honey Amber and the yeast was from a Liberty Ale think it was a dry Muntons yeast
 
This yeast came from my first AG boil but I did dump a 1lb bag of DME in the pot and glad I had it--gravity reading the day of this yeast harvest was 1.15 OG 1.44 little lower than I was shootin for but I'm good with it--looking for 4-4.5 ABV

Assuming it was two weeks from when you pitched to when you harvested with 4% ABV you can expect 90% viability.
 
Thanks for your replies--I should add that this batch was way up past the 5 gal. mark on my bucket there is at least 5.5 gal. in the secoundary bucket--
I went down and picked up grain Saturday so I'm looking forward to the next boil using my own yeast probably in the next couple days--I'll post how well the yeast does during the ferment
 
Pitched the wheat yeast I saved to a 5 gal. batch of Wheat Beer--Pitched @ 66* straight out of jar took about 12 hrs. to show air lock activity been going nice and steady for 32 hrs.--bucket temp shows 59*-61* OG 1.050
Got some Ale to bottle in a few days I plan on saving more yeast then-to simple not to.
 
I'd say 12 hours is totally reasonable - good job! It really is too simple not to, ain't it? When the cost of liquid yeast approaches 1/3 of your total batch cost, the savings in reused yeast is the largest. I figure that if I get 7 batches from one liquid yeast then the yeast only cost me $1 a batch and I'm completely good with that - of course, I get more than 7 batches but I use 7 as my 'bar'.
 
I'm trying my first yeast starter tomorrow, with the Irish Ale Yeast I washed a week ago. I just pulled a jar out of the fridge to warm up to room temperature over night. Then tomorrow, i'm going to pour off 80% of the liquid and then pitch that into a 1L starter. I'm brewing an Oatmeal Stout on Sunday I'm going to throw this into.
 
Well just made my Oatmeal stout, and pitched the yeast, i'll check tonight and tomorrow morning, to see if it's taking off yet . I would imagine I over pitched a hair :D
 
Well just made my Oatmeal stout, and pitched the yeast, i'll check tonight and tomorrow morning, to see if it's taking off yet . I would imagine I over pitched a hair :D

All I can say is WOW :rockin:

Only 7 hours later, and it's going crazy. It blew some of the sanitizer out of my airlock. I just took the airlock out, and put a small blow off tube from the bucket lid into a pitcher of sanitizer :D
 
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