Homebrewing myths that need to die

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You don't prime when kegging. That's the co2 cylinder's job. But some do use kegs for primary & secondary. Even priming in the keg. But it'd be exactly the same as in the UK where they have that plastic barrel on the counter to prime the beer in. Kinda like a poorman's keg. Crap I says. I'll bottle it,thank you,& won't loose carbonation as the bottle empties. Unlike priming in kegs or plastic barrels.

I think what your refering to is when priming a firkin/cask and ONLY pushing with the pressure of the secondary ferm/priming pressure through the engine.
This does loose considerable carb towards the end but usually any beer served by this method has a low carb per style.

I almost always prime in my keg

1.Only have room for 2 kegs in the fridge and if i have a 3rd i need to get on gas and carb i could just prime and seal with gas instead of leaving in on. The sugar carbs the beer so that when im ready to put it in the fridge i can drink it next day instead of waiting another week.
2. YOU SAVE ON CO2, Its a PITA to get tanks and I like to do it as little as possible, because i prime i tend to get around 10-13 kegs for a 5lb bottle and change it out every 6months or so.
 
Correct. But when people say that you should take into account your hourly wage when determining the cost of your homebrew it implies that the opportunity cost of homebrewing is paid work. I would assume most people brew in their time off and do not take annual leave to brew so the opportunity cost of brewing is not paid work (at least for me - if there is no extra work to do then my employer won't pay me for any hours more than 40 a week) and therefore you should not factor your time into the cost of your beer.

On YouTube, every conversation inevitably devolves into some sort of racial diatribe involving Hitler.

On HomeBrewTalk, every conversation inevitably devolves into a surprisingly tedious and increasingly irrelevant economics debate. :p
 
As I understand it, this myth has only been fairly recently "busted." The cite is the FAQ on the Lallemand Danstar website:

http://www.danstaryeast.com/frequently-asked-questions

I guess you should email Danstar and tell them they are wrong about their product.
I guess you didn't read & understand adequately. The EXTRA yeast in the DRY packet is there ONLY so you don't HAVE to aerate. But aerating saves those EXTRA yeast to cut lag time when rehydrated.
Looks like I was wrong about that. I find this evidence sufficient to change my position.
Hmm,didn't print your quote. Anyway,it's reconstituting chemicals needed for strong cell walls. but not just from chemicals it contains. It needs o2 as a catalist for the process. So aerating even moderately is def a benifit vs not aerating at all. No aeration makes for higher attrition rates in dry yeast. Period. That's why there are extra cells in dry yeast packets...
Lot's of people prime with sugar in corny kegs.

Not that many out of all those that can afford kegging equipment. Most buy kegs,etc so they don't have to bulk prime & wait. And if you prime in a keg with sugar solution,as I said before,it's no better than bulk priming in those plastic barrel things common in the UK. As the beer empties out,co2 comes out of the beer to equalize the pressure in the empty head space. Leaving increasing flatter beer due to the increasing empty head space.
 
I guess you didn't read & understand adequately. The EXTRA yeast in the DRY packet is there ONLY so you don't HAVE to aerate. But aerating saves those EXTRA yeast to cut lag time when rehydrated.

That doesn't make any sense w.r.t. the biochemistry involved, and it certainly isn't what Clayton Cone was saying in that post. Oxygen is necessary for sterol production, which is necessary for yeast population growth. Danstar argues that there are sufficient sterols and yeast in the packet already. Whether or not that's true is one thing, but adding oxygen wouldn't cut lag time in any sense...nor do you want to cut lag time...
 
And if you prime in a keg with sugar solution,as I said before,it's no better than bulk priming in those plastic barrel things common in the UK. As the beer empties out,co2 comes out of the beer to equalize the pressure in the empty head space. Leaving increasing flatter beer due to the increasing empty head space.


Pretty sure anyone who bulk primes in a keg still pushes the resulting beer with CO2, so they're not just "draining" and it shouldn't cause CO2 to come out of solution any differently than if it were force carbed and then lowered to serving pressure.
 
You can defiantly save money. I can make 5 gallons of IPA for 50-60$ and it costs 100$ if I buy it in the grocery store. I make extract batches so far but you save even more if you do all grain. The equipment is the only other thing that costs money but its a one time expense. What am I missing here?

I tend to agree since I average about $0.58 per bottle (all grain) including custom maps from Bottlemark.... BUT, I find that I cannot stop dreaming about equipment. I have absolutely everything I need to make great beer for the rest of my life, and yet now I find myself researching a RIMS build for my mash tun. When will it ever stop?
 
Not that many out of all those that can afford kegging equipment. Most buy kegs,etc so they don't have to bulk prime & wait. And if you prime in a keg with sugar solution,as I said before,it's no better than bulk priming in those plastic barrel things common in the UK. As the beer empties out,co2 comes out of the beer to equalize the pressure in the empty head space. Leaving increasing flatter beer due to the increasing empty head space.

OK- I will grant your first claim. Most keggers I know don't prime in the keg.

Claim number two is pushing it. Bottling is a pain because you have to clean and sanitize and cap all the bottles. Of the whole operation, batch priming is the easiest thing. So I disagree that people want to keg so they don't have to batch prime.

I will give you that time is an advantage of force carbing in a keg over priming in a keg or bottles.

Your final claim, sorry, I have to call BS. When you prime in the keg, you can still hook the keg up to your CO2 to maintain carbonation all the way to through the batch. I usually draw the first 5-10 pints with the natural CO2 and then hook up the gas, but sometimes I vent the keg and hook up the gas line from the get-go.
 
Not that many out of all those that can afford kegging equipment. Most buy kegs,etc so they don't have to bulk prime & wait. And if you prime in a keg with sugar solution,as I said before,it's no better than bulk priming in those plastic barrel things common in the UK. As the beer empties out,co2 comes out of the beer to equalize the pressure in the empty head space. Leaving increasing flatter beer due to the increasing empty head space.

No and no. Have you even tried keg priming?
 
That doesn't make any sense w.r.t. the biochemistry involved, and it certainly isn't what Clayton Cone was saying in that post. Oxygen is necessary for sterol production, which is necessary for yeast population growth. Danstar argues that there are sufficient sterols and yeast in the packet already. Whether or not that's true is one thing, but adding oxygen wouldn't cut lag time in any sense...nor do you want to cut lag time...

I said it because I've done it. Once again,I've spoken from experience & ben called a fool,liar or whatever. I've seen aeration cut lag time when paired with rehydrating & closely matching temps with the wort. It's just one piece of the complete process imo. Once again,these are observations of my own paired with what I'm learning of the processes involved. Interesting how these flaming wars start...one guy speaks his mind,one guy jumps on him,then others start jumping on him. It's the mob rules human mentality all over again.
 
I said it because I've done it. Once again,I've spoken from experience & ben called a fool,liar or whatever. I've seen aeration cut lag time when paired with rehydrating & closely matching temps with the wort. It's just one piece of the complete process imo. Once again,these are observations of my own paired with what I'm learning of the processes involved. Interesting how these flaming wars start...one guy speaks his mind,one guy jumps on him,then others start jumping on him. It's the mob rules human mentality all over again.

They're starting because you're spouting anecdotal evidence in a topic that requires a lot more proof and significance than that.
 
I said it because I've done it. Once again,I've spoken from experience & ben called a fool,liar or whatever. I've seen aeration cut lag time when paired with rehydrating & closely matching temps with the wort. It's just one piece of the complete process imo. Once again,these are observations of my own paired with what I'm learning of the processes involved. Interesting how these flaming wars start...one guy speaks his mind,one guy jumps on him,then others start jumping on him. It's the mob rules human mentality all over again.

Sheesh...I'm not calling you a fool or a liar, so take it easy. :rolleyes:

You told some dude that he "didn't read & understand adequately" and then went on to completely misrepresent the content in question. Nobody but you is making this a "flame war".
 
Myth: Kegging is expensive!

Fact: CO2 Tank + Reg + Cobra Tap + Keg + Fittings can be had for under $200 plus applicable taxes and shipping, if you shop around you can often get it for less. This represents a one time investment. Additional kegs can be had for under $60 a pop used if you shop around. Even here in Canada.

Again, if you shop the classifieds, a used fridge can be had for cheap or free.

Recurring costs for CO2 tank fills are easily balanced by not having to purchase caps for bottles (I pay $4-6 per batch for PET caps or $3 for crown, 7-8 kegs off of one 5lb CO2 fill seems to be the going rate, I pay $28 for a 5lb fill, which means its about even at lowest average efficiency)

You'd need 60 12oz bottles for the average 5g batch, so not counting shipping or taxes, that's about $30 on average, then there's inevitable breakage with glass and so forth.


Kegging *is* more expensive than bottling to start. Long term though, especially if brewing frequently kegging makes great sense in both cash and time saved.
 
My point is we all have biases. We make observations upon our very limited experience. doesn't make them right or wrong. However when a company as large as Danstar makes a claim about their own product I would tend to side with them. (no offense) Afterall Danstar has the risk of putting out bad instructions that would negatively impact their product and therefore their sales. Why would they take this risk? Doesn't make sense to me



images
 
I'm basing my information on the various studies and such that I read, as opposed to the "old wisdom" thats gets repeated time and time again (rack your beer as soon as gravity is stable, or you'll get autolysis).

No one here appears to be arguing you will get autolysis if you don't rack right away. If you want to present THAT as a myth, that's one thing. Arguing that autolysis on the homebrew scale is a myth is a different thing entirely.
 
My point is we all have biases. We make observations upon our very limited experience. doesn't make them right or wrong. However when a company as large as Danstar makes a claim about their own product I would tend to side with them. (no offense) Afterall Danstar has the risk of putting out bad instructions that would negatively impact their product and therefore their sales. Why would they take this risk? Doesn't make sense to me

My only issue is that they're making those statements based upon fresh product. Until I started buying heavily online, I didn't have access to reliably fresh properly stored dry yeast. A lag time of 4 days from pitching dry versus pitching a starter and having activity within 2 days is significant. Moreso when pitching a starter into an aerated batch and having activity within 24 hours.

That's personal experience, working with Danstar Nottingham yeast that had sat around at the LHBS for at least a year.

I don't doubt their claim if using fresh yeast, not one bit; my own experience varies and thus my process has changed.

It's hardly scientific, just anecdotal :mug:.
 
They're starting because you're spouting anecdotal evidence in a topic that requires a lot more proof and significance than that.

It happens time & again though. It's human nature they even discuss on shows like Bones. so it's def not just me. I'm smarter than that. How many times do I have to say it before it sinks in that 50% of ALL science is observation. Which I've taken note of more than a couple of times. But it's always described as anecdotal & to be easilly dismissed. Then some youngin comes along & says basically the same thing,but in there own words,& everyone accepts it. It's been the same throughout history,so I know it's not just me.
Again,a lot of basic human nature gets thrown out around here thinly vailed as real knowledge.
Boy,these posts come up fast. I was around post 125 or so. And What I meant was the other member seemed to take what matches hid beliefs from my reply & apply that to his reply that seemed to me to be rather one sided. Once again,I was stating the facts as I've seen/experienced them to be. I'm not starting anything. How would anyone feel when their experiences are politely called false,misleading,etc...?...I'm about done with this. And being retired $60 here & $100 there adds up to more than I can spend on fixed means. It's easier when you're still working & getting paid every week. I get paid once a month now. A bit harder to adjust to...
 
Disagree on the Candi Syrup point. You just need the right ingredients and some patience for experimentation :D

Edit: saw your other post, agree. But I'd rather buy it for $3 a pound (bulk price from Candi Syrup Inc)

What I meant is that just caramelizing some invert sugar on your stove isn't the same thing, which you know, but a lot of people aren't aware of.
 
Myth: Kegging is expensive!

Fact: CO2 Tank + Reg + Cobra Tap + Keg + Fittings can be had for under $200 plus applicable taxes and shipping, if you shop around you can often get it for less. This represents a one time investment. Additional kegs can be had for under $60 a pop used if you shop around. Even here in Canada.

Again, if you shop the classifieds, a used fridge can be had for cheap or free.

You'd need 60 12oz bottles for the average 5g batch, so not counting shipping or taxes, that's about $30 on average, then there's inevitable breakage with glass and so forth.

I would love to keg -some- of my beers someday, but that's still expensive in my mind, haha. Even though you mentioned buying the refrigerator, you didn't mention a price. And what is the price of running a dedicated beer refrigerator 24/7?

Who buys bottles? I've never bought a bottle in my life. And I've never gotten more than 52-54 bottles out of a 5g batch. And I've broken exactly two bottles in my 2+ years of homebrewing. A pack of 144 bottle caps is like $4 and is almost enough for three 5g batches. That plus the few ounces of sugar for priming is pretty cheap. The only other cost of bottling is your time if you're one of -those- people :D

I know kegging can be done cheaper than some folks think, but "expensive" is all relative, y'know?
 
Myth: Kegging is expensive!

Fact: CO2 Tank + Reg + Cobra Tap + Keg + Fittings can be had for under $200 plus applicable taxes and shipping, if you shop around you can often get it for less. This represents a one time investment. Additional kegs can be had for under $60 a pop used if you shop around. Even here in Canada.

Again, if you shop the classifieds, a used fridge can be had for cheap or free.

$200 is a lot more than $0, especially when you start adding kegs at $40+ each. I'm not saying kegging isn't worth the money, but I'm not sure I agree with this "myth" being busted. Add in the extra costs of running another freezer or refrigerator, and I can see the penny pinchers among us grimacing just thinking about it.

Recurring costs for CO2 tank fills are easily balanced by not having to purchase caps for bottles (I pay $4-6 per batch for PET caps or $3 for crown, 7-8 kegs off of one 5lb CO2 fill seems to be the going rate, I pay $28 for a 5lb fill, which means its about even at lowest average efficiency)

$3 per batch is very steep for caps, IMO. Buy them in bulk and save a lot. I picked up about 2000 caps for less than $20, which puts my cost for caps somewhere around $0.50 per batch. PET caps ought to cost you nothing if you are reusing soda bottles. They already come with the bottles!

I would also add that $28 for a CO2 refill is EXTREMELY high. The welding supply place down the street from me will swap my 5lb tank for $14. Maybe things cost more in Canada? Still seems outrageous to me.

You'd need 60 12oz bottles for the average 5g batch, so not counting shipping or taxes, that's about $30 on average, then there's inevitable breakage with glass and so forth.

Your 5 gallon batches must be bigger than everyone else's. There are 640 oz in 5 gallons. If you use 12oz bottles then the absolute most bottles you will need is 54, and that's leaving the last bottle 1/3 full. In my experience I usually end up with right around 2 cases when I bottle a batch. Bottles cost me nothing because I either save them from when I drink commercial beer and/or have my friends save me their bottles. It doesn't take much saving before you have way more bottles than you can reasonably keep around. If you want a free lifetime supply of bottles, go volunteer to steward or judge in a homebrew competition. They always end up with hundreds of empty bottles at the end of the competition and are usually more than happy to give them away.
 
You can defiantly save money. I can make 5 gallons of IPA for 50-60$ and it costs 100$ if I buy it in the grocery store. I make extract batches so far but you save even more if you do all grain. The equipment is the only other thing that costs money but its a one time expense. What am I missing here?

Figuring out the math on roughly 50-60 cents per beer if you count the equipment I've bought means >35 batches of beer at 5 gallons each. Homebrew is more expensive if you count the equipment. But then again so is something like photography, modding cars, or anything else you have as a hobby. It's all a matter of how you want to spend your own money and how much you enjoy it.
 
Yep, you'll need beet sugar and some industrial equipment. But I'm guessing you're making caramelized invert sugar, which actually isn't the same thing.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f12/20-lb-sugar-jar-yeast-nutrient-114837/

^^This^^
When I make a clone of a commercial beer I cannot replicate the exact conditions so I do the best I can to approximate those conditions in the confines of my humble equipment. Same can be said for making Belgian style Candi syrup. Is it perfect? No. But some folks out there put in a ton of time and energy to get really close. I made a bad ass dubel when I tried this. And it's not just invert. The DAP increases the Maillard reactions and some other stuff I don't understand well enough to try to explain. Tons of argument over whether what is produced is actually what is intended, but who cares? I don't make Pliny, I make an approximation that tastes really freakin good!
 
It's all a matter of how you want to spend your own money and how much you enjoy it.
This is true, and most of us have no regrets on how we spent our money making homebrew. But as soon as someone brings up the topic of saving money making beer at home, the whole concept of a hobby is lost. Now time is money and once you factor in time and equipment you'll never compete with commercial beer. You might be trying to fool your wife or yourself, but saving money is not a reason to brew.

Call it a hobby and leave money out of it!
 
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f12/20-lb-sugar-jar-yeast-nutrient-114837/

^^This^^
When I make a clone of a commercial beer I cannot replicate the exact conditions so I do the best I can to approximate those conditions in the confines of my humble equipment. Same can be said for making Belgian style Candi syrup. Is it perfect? No. But some folks out there put in a ton of time and energy to get really close. I made a bad ass dubel when I tried this. And it's not just invert. The DAP increases the Maillard reactions and some other stuff I don't understand well enough to try to explain. Tons of argument over whether what is produced is actually what is intended, but who cares? I don't make Pliny, I make an approximation that tastes really freakin good!

I think it's cool to make your own, but "who cares?" Some people, like me, do a lot of Belgian abbey style ales where nearly 100% of the flavor or color comes from candi syrup. I'd rather have the real deal.
 
What you're missing is the cost of the time you spend making it. If you spend 4 hours that could be used making $10 per hour then you have to add $40 to the cost of each batch. Of course, many will answer that they brew on their off time when they wouldn't be making anything anyways. This does not mean the time brewing is not an expense. It simply means that on non-brewing days off you spend the time (=money) on recreation or other activities.

Brewing-your-own costs more when all economic expenditures are figured in (not just exchange of dollars). However, it is worth it to have good beer that is your own to drink or share.

Wow, so most American's TVs atually cost them about a million bucks? What about sleeping? Holy Crap, a round of golf is crazy expensive now.

I'm sorry, but I completely disagree with this way of thinking. If it's not an out of pocket expense, it's not a monetary expense. There are a ton of things that people do each day to save money, brewing beer can be one of those. Yes, if you took a day off of work and didn't get paid, just to brew, then you would have to figure that in as a cost. Doing something because you enjoy it on your leisure time, is not a time=money situation. I've saved a ton of money by doing DIY projects around the house. I have literally saved a lot of money doing that kind of stuff and I don't particularly enjoy all of it. I hate painting rooms, installing tile floors, but at the end of the weekend, when I'm looking at my bank account, I realize that I still have a couple of thousand dollars there that I would have had to give to someone else to do it.

Believe me, I'm 100% of the belief that you shouldn't get into homebrewing to save money. For one, I agree it's not easy, when you actually factor in 100% of the out of pocket costs - propane, grain, yeast, hops, water, equipment, gasoline to drive and pick up ingredients and electricity. You should do it for the enjoyment, but to say it's not possible to save money brewing at home, becaus you have to pay yourself to do something relaxing and enjoyable is completely off base, imo. I use brewing like other people use golf or fishing. It's a relaxing activity that I enjoy. I will admit though, I'm not the type of person that looks at my day and thinks every possible waking moment is one that should be spent making money.
 
that is NOT a myth

Seriously?

Give me an experienced brewer using extract. He pitches enough yeast, aerates properly, controls his fermentation temps. He makes great beer.

Give me a rookie brewer doing all grain. He has trouble with the proper mash temperatures. He may not pitch enough yeast. Fermentation gets too warm. He makes decent beer.


It's not hard to end up at either of these spots.

All grain gives you ultimate flexibility that you lack in extract, but all grain itself does not improve beer.
 
Myth: When civilization collapses home brewer's will have a valuable skill.

Reality: We will all be crapping our pants as hard as everyone else, and probably dead.
 
I think it's cool to make your own, but "who cares?" Some people, like me, do a lot of Belgian abbey style ales where nearly 100% of the flavor or color comes from candi syrup. I'd rather have the real deal.

Maybe I could have stated that better. I enjoy the process of brewing. I also enjoyed the process of making my own Candi sugar and was proud that I had some control over another aspect of the process. I also think that with some practice (not sure about you but my first batch was the best tasting bucket o nanners I've ever encountered!) you can get really close to the "real thing," might exceed it for your purposes, and might have fun doing it. I brew a lot of Belgian styles too...I love em. But I don't necessarily expect to brew an exact replica of Orval, or Westy, or any other great beer. I do expect that it will taste damn good though.
 
Totes said:
The airlock isn't a good gauge of fermentation.

If my airlock isn't bloop bloop'n the morning after yeast pitch, C02 is escaping somewhere else, or fermentation is not happening (enough). Seems like a good tool to gauge activity to me.

I've actually charted the bubbles per minute on several different brews, ales and lagers, at intervals of 8-12 hours. It was a fun experience, for a data head anyway.
 
I've actually charted the bubbles per minute on several different brews, ales and lagers, at intervals of 8-12 hours. It was a fun experience, for a data head anyway.

That's pretty cool. I'm already envisioning a web interface that creates bar graphs on the fly for this...
 
I've actually charted the bubbles per minute on several different brews, ales and lagers, at intervals of 8-12 hours. It was a fun experience, for a data head anyway.

Interesting! Did you correct for variances in headspace volume, barometric pressure, temperature and relative humidity?
 
Myth: Extract twang is real.

I wonder if I my palet is just very sensitive to extract twang. It has been awhile since I had extract beer, but just the thought of the twang taste is making me pull funny faces.
 
Myth: Kegging is expensive!

Fact: CO2 Tank + Reg + Cobra Tap + Keg + Fittings can be had for under $200 plus applicable taxes and shipping, if you shop around you can often get it for less. This represents a one time investment. Additional kegs can be had for under $60 a pop used if you shop around. Even here in Canada.

Again, if you shop the classifieds, a used fridge can be had for cheap or free.

Recurring costs for CO2 tank fills are easily balanced by not having to purchase caps for bottles (I pay $4-6 per batch for PET caps or $3 for crown, 7-8 kegs off of one 5lb CO2 fill seems to be the going rate, I pay $28 for a 5lb fill, which means its about even at lowest average efficiency)

You'd need 60 12oz bottles for the average 5g batch, so not counting shipping or taxes, that's about $30 on average, then there's inevitable breakage with glass and so forth.


Kegging *is* more expensive than bottling to start. Long term though, especially if brewing frequently kegging makes great sense in both cash and time saved.

I've been mixing it up and bottling the occasional batch lately and am finding that it really does not save much time to keg. Yes, it is faster to get the beer packaged. But when you factor in cleaning the keg, the lines, sanitation, it all just about evens out. It takes me an hour and a half to bottle a batch, including sanitizing bottles and clean up. And kegging takes a half hour to get the keg sanitized, siphon hose sanitized, and rack to keg. But you also need to include the time you take to clean the keg and tap lines after a keg kicks.
Personally, I really enjoy having beer in bottles as well as on tap. Why limit yourself? I don't want to buy a bigger kegerator, not until my current one dies.
 
Myth: When civilization collapses home brewer's will have a valuable skill.

Reality: We will all be crapping our pants as hard as everyone else, and probably dead.

WRONG!!!

Granted you would have to be one of the survivors, but you would likely be the only one raiding the lhbs and making alcohol after the apocalypse.
 
Myth: For a Bud Light clone, you just need to drink good beer and pee in a bottle. I tried this once, and I think it was missing something. The flavor wasn't quite right, and after drinking several I just felt sick, and didn't have a buzz. Also, none of my friends will try my homebrew anymore. I wish people would stop repeating this myth.
 
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