Man, Danstar Nottingham is FAST!!!

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Steve973

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I'm getting ready for my third all-grain in three weeks, since I've kicked both of my kegs and the fermenting batches are all big beers and won't be ready for another month. I will be using Danstar Nottingham yeast, and I decided to create a big starter to help my beer ferment as quickly as possible due to crazy amounts of yeast cells. I used 2 packs of the yeast, and the starter showed signs of activity very quickly. This stuff is amazing!
 
Dry yeast always seems to take off like crazy. I think it must have a really high cell count. The only time I've had liquid yeast take off that fast is when I've racked onto the slurry of a previous batch.
 
Steve, your wasting time and money making large starters and using 2 packs of yeast for one brew. If you do that then I'd split it four ways for four brews.

I like the Danstar yeast. I brew mainly English style Ales so it's perfect for me. I'm never had a problem. It's fairly neutral so can be used for an alternate yeast in any brew that doesn't really rely on the yeast to add a lot of character to the beer. It gives low esters and a very slight fruity character. It likes to ferment at 17c to 20 c so it sits nice in a house that's not too hot.

Danstar Nottingham certainly does :rockin:in my opinion.

Be careful, the last time I used a yeast cake the Ferment was rapid, it was vigorous in under 45m inad had completed in under 24 hours. I was worried that it may damage the brew with off flavour from stressed yeast pissing in my brew but it was fine.
 
Steve, you don't need a starter for dry yeast. You could have pitched the two packs directly into the brew and it would have been perfect. The dry yeast contains enough yeast to do the job you want it to do. In my case 1 pack usually does me for a 23 litre batch.
In fact making a starter for dry yeast hurts the yeast due to it rapidly consumming the nutrients in a starter leaving the yeast to die or mutate.
 
Ya'll knew that I would eventually stick my nose in this thread and repeat my mantra:



Nottingham=Best.Yeast.Evar:D


Don't worry Steve, I doubt you will ruin your beer. I have used the yeast cake from batches fermented with Nottingham. There was a lot of yeast in the cakes. Orfy is right, fermentation will start in under an hour and finish within a day. It is intense, but Nottingham is up to it. I wouldn't worry about making more yeast than that, though. One package in a 1.055ish beer is plenty, especially if you rehydrate.
 
Properly hydrated, Nottingham will give you about 100 billion active cells. That's plenty for 5 gallons. Two packets will do the trick for high gravity worts.
 
I was afraid that the yeast was consuming the wort sugars too quickly, so when it was really going, i put it into the fridge to minimize that problem. We finished by 3-4pm, and i checked it before bed and it was blowing off foam and showing crazy activity. It was going even stronger this morning. The starting gravity was 1.052, and if this will be ready to keg in a day or two, that will be perfect!
 
Nottingham huh. Might have to try that. Is that primarily for the pale ale?

Edit: Thats a lot cheaper than the wet stuff.
 
What is S-04? Either I haven't heard of it, or I have heard of it by another name. After posting this, I'll see what google has to say.

Well, it has been over 24 hours and I still have about 4 bubbles per second. I am trying to be patient but I want to keg soon! :)
 
This Nottingham stuff is getting raves... last I looked (ten years ago), dry yeast was getting a bad rap for being impure. Have things changed? I use liquid (100 billion cells / 5 gal) but am totally open to persuasion....

I guess my question is, are dry yeasts now comparable in performance to liquid? All types? Certain suppliers? Ales only? Lagers? I guess that's a bunch o'questions.

-p
 
:off:slightly...

So, I should not be making a starter for dry yeasts (all I can get in Tasmania).

What about rehydrating them just prior to pitching?
 
perry said:
This Nottingham stuff is getting raves... last I looked (ten years ago), dry yeast was getting a bad rap for being impure. Have things changed? I use liquid (100 billion cells / 5 gal) but am totally open to persuasion....

I guess my question is, are dry yeasts now comparable in performance to liquid? All types? Certain suppliers? Ales only? Lagers? I guess that's a bunch o'questions.
Click to expand...
That's a really good question. I'm looking forward to hearing what people have to say.
 
dibby33 said:
:off:slightly...

So, I should not be making a starter for dry yeasts (all I can get in Tasmania).

What about rehydrating them just prior to pitching?
Click to expand...

I use nottingham, and always make a 2-3 quart starter. I've also started oxygenating, and get furious fermentations at around 68 degrees (well within temp ranges). That said, you can pitch after rehydrating with no ill effect, but a starter is always nice.
 
Okay, here's my experience and opinion.

Dry yeasts do not need starters. You can make starters, but it's just extra work and time that you don't need to invest. I've used Nottingham four times, and it has always started within twelve hours or so, without any starters. It's a great general use yeast, as it is very neutral in flavor and doesn't mess up any of your basic beers.

As for liquid yeast, starters definitely help. Batches that I've used starters with started about twelve hours faster than non-starter batches. Liquid yeasts also tend to be more specialized, and contribute more unique flavors. If you're trying to make more adventurous or true to type beers, especially certain belgian ales, liquid yeast is the way to go. I've used four different liquid yeasts, and the variations in flavor have been quite noticeable.

S-04 is pretty similar to Nottingham, in that it's a neutral, all-purpose yeast. It's just made by a different company.

I like using liquid yeast, but I think I'll continue to use Nottingham occasionally, as it is such a quality dry yeast.
 
Just as an update, the fermentation has calmed down quite a bit, and I checked the gravity. It's down to 1.014, so it's either finished or it's very close.
 
I made the famous Caramel Cream Ale this weekend and wanted to try it using a dry yeast so I pitched it with Windsor and HOLY SHEET. I had activity in 2-hours and it was finished sometime during the day on Monday. (About 36ish hours from start to finish)

I used Nottingham on my Chocolate Stout too and it yielded similar results.
 
This is from mrmalty.com

Some exciting work has been done on dry yeast lately. Reports are coming in of better quality, cleaner dry yeast. Personally, I really prefer the liquid yeasts, but the lure of dry yeast is strong. The biggest benefit is that it is cheap and does not require a starter. In fact, with most dry yeasts, placing them in a starter would just deplete the reserves that the yeast manufacturer worked so hard to build into the yeast. Most dry yeast has an average cell density of 20 billion cells per gram. You would need about 9.5 grams of dry yeast if you were pitching into 5.5 gallons of 1.048 wort to get the proper cell counts. (Recently there have been other numbers mentioned for cells/gram of dry yeast and folks have asked me why I believe there are 20 billion cells. I've actually done cell counts on dry yeast and they're always 20 billion per gram +/- less than a billion. Dr. Clayton Cone has also stated that there are 20 billion per gram, and other folks I trust tell me that 20 billion is correct. Until I see something different, practical experience tells me this number is correct.) For dry yeasts, just do a proper rehydration in tap water, do not do a starter.
Click to expand...
 
I use liquid for special batch where you want the yeast flavor /character to come through. I guess I was at my local brew store and the books I read was that Dry yeast had large amount of wild and would give off flavors. I am guessing that I might have to give it a try next time I brew a simple ale.




orfy said:
Another KISS converty. :rockin::D


I'm just wondering why any one would use a liquid yeast when there's a dry that will do the job.
Click to expand...
 
Nottingham will also work well down in the low 50's for what I call almost lagers.

I've gone to dry yeast for all of my english ales Nottingham and S04, US56 now I guess its called US05 (must have been a copyright infringement) I use it for my APA's and American IPA's, I'm going to try it in my Scottish ales as well, according to Jamil it works well for them. I still have some beers that I'll use liquid yeast in but the list keeps getting shorter.
 
Waldo said:
US56 now I guess its called US05 (must have been a copyright infringement)
Click to expand...


That strain (US56) is a mutation of the Nottingham strain . . . and another great yeast.
 
Orfy said:
Another KISS converty. :rockin::D


I'm just wondering why any one would use a liquid yeast when there's a dry that will do the job.
Click to expand...

I stumbled on this thread tonight in determining if I should go to the effort of a starter with Notty yeast. Then I discovered this quote and now I'm sorta curious.

I've been using WLP stuff mostly because the store where I shop has recipies that say to use it (or Wyeast which is equally expensive). Since I'm not really a yeast expert yet I just go with what it says to use (usually 001 or 013) but it's getting expensive, even after washing it. This post leads me to believe it's not really neccesary to spend what I do for the type of brews I do (American Ales and Wheats and occasionally London darks). I rarely brew European brews.

The reason I bring this up is I was given the Notty after I asked the store for the ingredients to make the cheapest Pale possible. Just to try it. Now I'm sort of led to believe that the premium yeast isn't worth it when you're just trying to make a basic American brew.

I guess my question is how good of a substitute are the dry yeasts when it comes to brewing on a budget as compared to a comparable liquid?
 
I often use Safale S-05, a reliable, fast, clean dry yeast. For your basic American Ale it is superb. It's also good for your not so basic Ale. I have never used Notty so can't comment.
 
I've used Notty a lot. While it's super fast and way flocculent, I feel like it is not a very "clean" yeast. It usually takes an extra couple of weeks after ferment to clean itself up. When I use WYeast 1056 (I usually use a big starter, then use slurry for batch after batch, after batch), I can have my blonde ale ready to go in a little over a week tasting clean and delicious.

You can't beat the convenience combined with quality and value that you get with Notty, though. I can't argue that.
 
duskb said:
I stumbled on this thread tonight in determining if I should go to the effort of a starter with Notty yeast. Then I discovered this quote and now I'm sorta curious.

I've been using WLP stuff mostly because the store where I shop has recipies that say to use it (or Wyeast which is equally expensive). Since I'm not really a yeast expert yet I just go with what it says to use (usually 001 or 013) but it's getting expensive, even after washing it. This post leads me to believe it's not really neccesary to spend what I do for the type of brews I do (American Ales and Wheats and occasionally London darks). I rarely brew European brews.

The reason I bring this up is I was given the Notty after I asked the store for the ingredients to make the cheapest Pale possible. Just to try it. Now I'm sort of led to believe that the premium yeast isn't worth it when you're just trying to make a basic American brew.

I guess my question is how good of a substitute are the dry yeasts when it comes to brewing on a budget as compared to a comparable liquid?
Click to expand...

have you looked into washing your yeast? a big jar of pickels and some small mason jar and you have enough yeast for your next 4 batches from 1 pack or vial of liquid yeast:

http://billybrew.com/yeast-washing

good video based on:

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/wiki/index.php/Washing_yeast

just using starsan instead of boiling jars.

at 5 batches per liquid culture it should come out about the same as dry...

i use dry for session beers, simple pales or porters. but anything that relys on that special yeast profile i use liquid cultures, there is no subsitute... not saying good ales can't be made from dry....but they just are less complex
 
Will one pack of Nottingham work for higher gravity beers, say beers with OGs of 1.070, 80, 90+? Or should 2 packs be used?
 
You might want to scroll down and read some recent Notty threads. Many people are having trouble with long lag times (myself included with the last two attempts). Both batches have off flavors that I blame on the yeast. You might just want to do a starter. I'm using US-05 from now on.
 
The only time I use liquid yeasts are for my weiss beers and belgian styles (although I'm trying Danstar's Munich dry yeast on a hefe I just brewed). Other than that I use Nottingham and S-05 exclusively.

For the price and quality of the finished product, Nottingham is a great strain.
 
EdWort said:
Nottingham Rocks! My Haus Pale Ale usually is finished in a day. Good stuff!
Click to expand...

I recently brewed a partial mash rendition of your Haus Pale and use Nottingham. I've recently started using a blow off tube but this was my first experience with dry yeast. I've never seen such furious gurgling in my blow off container. Consider my to be highly impressed with this yeast and I intend to use it for all my English/American style ales.
 
Rover said:
You might want to scroll down and read some recent Notty threads. Many people are having trouble with long lag times (myself included with the last two attempts). Both batches have off flavors that I blame on the yeast. You might just want to do a starter. I'm using US-05 from now on.
Click to expand...
I use US-05 a lot and like how clean and consistent it is. I tried Notty recently when I made a 10-gallon batch of BM's Centennial Blonde (which is freakin' delicious - go brew some).

Anyway, I did an 11 gallon batch and split it between two fermenters. I pitched a packet of Notty in each.

One was down to 1.006 and in the keg in three days. The other hadn't even krausened yet. It took well over a week to ferment out. Both were delicious - got a nice little fruit note from the Notty - but the difference in ferment times was crazy.

So add me to the list of lag issues with Notty.

-Joe
 
starrfish said:
have you looked into washing your yeast? a big jar of pickels and some small mason jar and you have enough yeast for your next 4 batches from 1 pack or vial of liquid yeast:

http://billybrew.com/yeast-washing

good video based on:

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/wiki/index.php/Washing_yeast

just using starsan instead of boiling jars.

at 5 batches per liquid culture it should come out about the same as dry...

i use dry for session beers, simple pales or porters. but anything that relys on that special yeast profile i use liquid cultures, there is no subsitute... not saying good ales can't be made from dry....but they just are less complex
Click to expand...

I wash every yeast I have and have been doing for about two years now. The issue is that, as I understand it, you can only re-use and keep a yeast so long before it either goes bad, picks up an infection and/or wild yeast, or just flat out stops working. I had a fridge full of various washed yeasts but when I was having off flavors show up in a few batches a year ago the brew store told me to use the batch once or twice and toss it after that. They also told me that a yeast won't last for much longer than a couple of months and not to risk it if it's older than that.

Of course I'm open for the debate but I must confess I have not had a bad batch show up since I started doing what they told me to.
 

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