Brewing the Hangover out of the Beer...

It's time to put the collective wisdom of the board together and see if we can get rid of, or at least minimize, the unpleasant effects of over-enjoying the fruits of our labor. I'm sure that we've all found that some beers are more likely to give us hangovers, or at least headaches, than others. In fact all the westerners in Indonesia claim that the national beer "Bintang" must be laced with poison (Muslim conspiracy theory) because of the headaches it gives everyone.

Personally I find that darker is usually worse than lighter for me, though not always. Pyramid Snowcap is completely off my list as 2 beers feels like 5 in the morning and 3 make me feel like cat-vomit.


Surely some of the hardcore beer scientists out there can answer these two questions:

1: What contributes to a beer becoming a hangover-causing beer?

2: How do we brew beers that will have a low "Hq" hangover-quotient?

BrewOnBoard

Here is a thought.... alcohol is a poison. Drink water. It helps.

Pappy says the yeast in home brew contains B12 (IIRC) and keeps away the hangover.

But the solution is to hydrate, eat, and NOT DRINK SO MUCH!

A hangover is your bodies way of telling you too much.

Just me?

I never get a hangover from my homebrew...but I dont go stupidly and get sheeit face drunk.....I'm not a dumb kid any more.:cross:

I know that the belief is that the darker the liquor, the more potential for hangovers. Not sure whether this applies to beer or not.

I'm thinking the difference between red wine and vodka. Drink too much of each and you're f***ed, but a smaller proportion of red will hit the brain harder than voddy. Supposedly.

Urban myth?

buzzkill said:

I never get a hangover from my homebrew...but I dont go stupidly and get sheeit face drunk.....I'm not a dumb kid any more.:cross:

Click to expand...

+1 on this.

Seriously?

beer is 5%

wine is 12%

"voddy" is 45%

of alcohol..... alcohol is what creates the effect. Variables include weight of person drinking and time. A "smaller proportion" of wine (shall we say 4 oz?!) at 12% will hit the brain harder than (shall we say 5 oz?!?!) of "voddy"... harder?!?!?!?

SERIOUSLY?!?!?!?

sorry... I am going to bed.

I will let you Nugent and Brewon Board cover this and I will sleep and get up with my kid in the morning. Sorry for being an old prick....

chefmike said:

But the solution is to hydrate, eat, and NOT DRINK SO MUCH!

Click to expand...

Thats what I do and it helps. After a night of drinking I try to drink a big glass of water and eat a snack before I go to bed. It helps usually depending on how much I had.

I also think hangovers get worse if you beinge drink for a few days in a row. This only usually happens to me when friends/my brother come in from out of town and I splurge for a few days in a row.

It's not just a dark vs. light thing for me, just a trend. Pyramid SnowCap is one I've notice that is particularly bad for me, but Guinness on the other hand, I can drink all night (to a point of course) and wake up feeling just fine.

Surely y'all have noticed that different beers, or different alcohols are more likely to give you a hangover yes?

BoB

buzzkill said:

I never get a hangover from my homebrew...but I dont go stupidly and get sheeit face drunk.....I'm not a dumb kid any more.:cross:

Click to expand...

That is funny stuff but certainly true. I don't drink like a frat boy anymore.

chefmike said:

Seriously?

beer is 5%

wine is 12%

"voddy" is 45%

of alcohol..... alcohol is what creates the effect. Variables include weight of person drinking and time. A "smaller proportion" of wine (shall we say 4 oz?!) at 12% will hit the brain harder than (shall we say 5 oz?!?!) of "voddy"... harder?!?!?!?

SERIOUSLY?!?!?!?

Click to expand...

I'm not talking alcohol content. Obviously, the same ratio of wine to vodka is going to cause different effects due to the amount of alcohol. I'm talking about the idea/urban myth that darker alcoholic drinks like red wine, dark rum, rye, etc. have the potential to contribute more intensely to the effects of drinking than lighter drinks - vodka, gin, light rum.

I've heard of this, but don't know whether it's fact or not.

chefmike, we're all old pricks. This is what old pricks do.

I'm 20, in my 3rd year of university and have a flat with two of my friends downtown, I'm very into this thread.

I've certainly noticed that homebrew and some microbrew don't give me headaches like crappy macrobrew does, but my guess is that the preservatives are doing this... So rack one up for homebrew. B12 in the yeast and 0 preservatives other than hops and alcohol.

We've got a good start but how can we make a "hangover proof" beer? A lower % ABV might be the way to go for starters. This way you get more of everything else that's in beer and slightly less alcohol per bottle/glass, which may help give your body something to process a long with the alcohol... In addition, you can drink as much as everyone wants you to without being as hammered as everyone else ha ha ha.

Dehydration is the biggest issue at hand I think, perhaps adding electrolytes to the beer would somehow help? Sports drinks use sodium and potassium salts to help rehydrate the body. Does anyone know of one that's commonly available and flavourless?

Nugent said:

I'm taking about the idea/urban myth that darker alcoholic drinks like red wine, dark rum, rye, etc. have the potential to contribute more intensely to the effects of drinking than lighter drinks - vodka, gin, light rum.

I've heard of this, but don't know whether it's fact or not.

Click to expand...

Tannins in things like red wine and barrel aged liquor (like bourbon, scotch and other dark spirits) can contribute to a hangover, especially to people who may have an allergy to such things.

SeamusMac said:

I'm 20, in my 3rd year of university and have a flat with two of my friends downtown, I'm very into this thread.

Click to expand...

Dehydration is the biggest issue at hand I think, perhaps adding electrolytes to the beer would somehow help? Sports drinks use sodium and potassium salts to help rehydrate the body. Does anyone know of one that's commonly available and flavourless?

Click to expand...

In starting this post I was thinking more along the lines of avoiding brewing mistakes that might make hangover producing chemicals appear in beer, but your approach is interesting for sure. Perhaps adding B vitamins (especially thiamine and folic acid) to the beer as well as sodium, potassium and perhaps magnesium could help. (We always give these IV to any patient that has been drinking) The theory might be good, but I must admit I feel weird about making a vitamin fortified sports beer...

Now at the risk of getting technical: One of the reasons that beer makes you piss is that alcohol suppresses normal antidiuretic hormone (ADH) secretion from the pituitary. When this happens (ie when you drink) and you begin to become dehydrated your adrenal glads secrete a hormone called Aldesterone which conserves salt, which in turn, retains water. So adding salt to your beer (in the form of sodium or potassium) may help keep you from getting dehydrated. Of course so do the potato chips and a glass of water....

BrewOnBoard

I was under the impression that acetaldehyde was a contributor... if wikipedia says it, it has to be true! [citation needed] Yummy green apple! I think your liver makes it if your yeast doesnt.

I also believe that fusel alcohols contribute as well. I remember listening to some podcast with a distiller on it talking about this very topic. He said that the more effort one goes to to cut out the 'heads' and 'tails' and keep the 'hearts' the less hangover indusing the alcohol is. That's the same reason why gutrot vodka will make you want to kill yourself in the morning but a good handcrafted spirit will not.

All I know is the more water I drink before crashing, the less hung I'll be the next day. I'll down as much water as I can stomach before sleep...then halfway in the night do the same. I used to get severely hungover until I discovered this.

My ideas: (Probably the worst ideas ever)
- Isolate some anti-diuretic hormone or some aldosterone to prevent diuresis and subsequent dehydration. Keep it in your fridge and add an aliqout to each pint. (Anybody have some monkey pituitary glands we can harvest for the ADH) Desmopressin could also work for this this.
- Dilute your homebrew to super low alcohol levels.
- Keep a loaded gun beside your bed if hangover occurs..... you do the math. :cross:

Post # 16 finally answered the question. LOW ferment temps make lower level alcohols which are easier to metabolize.

I have limits for health reasons (diabetic).

We take starch, convert it to sugar, yeast converts it to alcohol, our bodies convert it back to sugar.....

And that IS why those twisted tea or zima type drinks have a bigger hang over than good beer.

All my opinion.

I pretty much keep a max limit of 1.1060.

David

Droot said:

I pretty much keep a max limit of 1.1060.

David

Click to expand...

Uh, typo? ----

This isn't much of a personal issue to me, since I'm halfway plowing through my seventh decade on this planet, and I just can't even think about overdoing any more. There's a lot of "lore" on this subject, but my understanding of the hangover was that it was always due to the byproducts in the beverage- fusel alcohols, aldehydes, etc. So if that's true, the approach would appear to be twofold: 1) minimize those things in your brew, and 2) as with any poison, follow the good advice given in several threads above -which has worked for me- and DILUTE THAT HANGOVER. Drink water while you're drinking otherwise, drink afterward, and as much as you can. Cheap remedy. What that doesn't cure, you must endure. Everything has its price.

You need to come up with a beer that A) Puts more water into your system then it flushes out (anti-diuretic), B) Has a high Vitamin C content, 7) contains some various herb that detoxifies your system and i) is formulated to your body type.

Seriously though a hangover, at least the headache side of them is generally caused by dehydration and a lack of electrolytes, glucose and vitamins.

Next time you tie one on, before you go to bed drink a Gatorade (or other sports drink) and take a multivitamin. You may still feel like **** but that is because alcohol is a toxin, and will still wreak havoc on you renal and digestive track, but you will not have a headache.

The best hangover cure I ever came across is a 500mL IV of Ringers Lactate.

NeonBrew said:

All I know is the more water I drink before crashing, the less hung I'll be the next day. I'll down as much water as I can stomach before sleep...then halfway in the night do the same. I used to get severely hungover until I discovered this.

Click to expand...

I think there are 2 different causes, dehydration is one and the other is fusel alcohols. I'm not sure if fusels are the cause of "headache beer" in commercial brews but I suspect it is. I made a homebrew that seemed to kick my head in after 3 or 4 whether I drink a lot of water or not and (not) coincidentally it was fermented too warm with Nottingham. Solution there is to watch the yeast you use and/or control temps better.

I do agree with others about water intake. When I was younger I could drink ridiculous amounts and not have to worry about hangovers. Now I can get one with 3 beers. The solution for me has been to drink about a quart of water after I imbibe or alternate full glasses or bottles of water between drinks. I imagine this has the dual benefits of hastening the removal of alcohol and keeping you hydrated at the same time.

If you skip just one step in the brewing process I promise you'll have a hangover free beer!

I can't find it with a quick search but I read a thread a while back about certain breweries giving people worse headaches/hang overs. Turns out some people are sensitive to certain yeast strains and many breweries have a house strain so anything from them gives the same painful result. For me out of the BMC group I don't touch Bud stuff any more b/c it hurts more the next day than Miller.

I think I drink too much to get hangovers.So you could either drink less to avoid the problem completely or mmore so as to build up a tolerance

A hangover is just your body's way of encouraging you to keep drinking in the morning.

I've always thought that a higher sugar content in the beverage increases the effects of the hangover.

Less from trippled distilled vodka on the rocks than a dark rum and coke.

Less from a pilsner than a big Belgian.

Not certain why.

arturo7 said:

I've always thought that a higher sugar content in the beverage increases the effects of the hangover.

Less from trippled distilled vodka on the rocks than a dark rum and coke.

Less from a pilsner than a big Belgian.

Not certain why.

Click to expand...

Thats something I figured out years ago Never Ever have anything sweet with a drink or I wake up the next day whishin I was dead

mnm129 said:

- Keep a loaded gun beside your bed if hangover occurs..... you do the math. :cross:

Click to expand...

I've found that shooting a gun in my house when I'm hungover actually makes my headache worse...

As for the light vs. dark theory, I don't think it works with beer. The worst hangover homebrew I have made was a very clean cream ale. It had corn and rice in it. It's color was ~2 SRM and the ABV was about 4%. My buddy called it the "hangover beer" because we would drink a couple (not getting hammered) and be hungover the next morning. All I can figure is that the adjuncts contributed to the hangover. It fermented in the low 60's so fusels should have been very low.

Most of the hangover is caused by the alcohol. It's the metabolism of the alcohol and the dehydrating affects that contribute almost all of the symptoms you encounter. The dehydration is easy to explain, while the metabolism is harder. Acetaldehyde is an intermediate step in the metabolism of alcohol. It is an incredibly toxic compound to your body. You use a lot of your bodies antioxidants to prevent damage from the compound.

The other compound, fusal alcohols and tannins contribute a small portion of the hangover, mostly in people who have a high sensitivity to them.

Big glass of water and some asprin before you go to sleep.Gatorade and a mcdonalds cheese burger when you wake up = no hangover.Sounds stupid,but try it.works everytime.

Nugent said:

I'm not talking alcohol content. Obviously, the same ratio of wine to vodka is going to cause different effects due to the amount of alcohol. I'm talking about the idea/urban myth that darker alcoholic drinks like red wine, dark rum, rye, etc. have the potential to contribute more intensely to the effects of drinking than lighter drinks - vodka, gin, light rum.

I've heard of this, but don't know whether it's fact or not.

chefmike, we're all old pricks. This is what old pricks do.

Click to expand...

Well, darker alcohols (ie dark rum, whiskey) contain congeners, which are actually toxic chemicals that are a natural by-product of fermentation. Drinking these alcohols will definitely cause worse hangovers than lighter-colored spirits (vodka, etc). Not sure how or if this translates into beer...

Wine contains sulfites, which also causes headaches/hangovers in some people. Sulfites are also a natural by-product of fermentation in wine, but additional sulfites are usually added for preservation purposes.

Dehydration is usually the most likely cause of hangovers, as most have stated. And the amount inbibed clearly will affect hangovers, as I'm learning as I slooowly approach 30

As for darker vs. lighter.Go out and drink 10 guinesses.The next night drink 10 golden anniversarys.Then you will know.

I would agree with the sulphides part. I'll tell you this drink the same amount of something like tomato wine or even grape wine,,, then the next day drink the same amount of onion wine. After the onion wine, you will wish you were dead the next day.

There are hundreds of compounds produced during the brewing process that, when ingested in a high enough dosage, are going to have adverse effects upon the human body. Aldehydes, phenolics, esters, and fusel alcohols can be byproducts of fermentation. These are the compound that are in too high concentration in 'headache' beers that pound your skull in the morning after drinking just three or four beer. This is especially true of aldehydes.

The main cause of hangovers is ethanol. If you get hangovers it is because you poisoned yourself with ethanol. Here's a cool synopsis of what you are going to be experiencing tomorrow morning.

Don't drink the last glass of beer. That glass contains the hangover. Stay away from the last glass.

To add to JennieD. Dark alcohols are colored from the oak.

The oak plays a large part or many peoples headaches is my theory. This is why dark alcohols, and red wine mess with people so much. A lot of people think that the sulfites in wine does it (and it does to some) but apple juice has sulfites and you don't hear people talking about having an apple juice hangover. White wine has more sulfites then red most of the time.

eelpout said:

I would agree with the sulphides part. I'll tell you this drink the same amount of something like tomato wine or even grape wine,,, then the next day drink the same amount of onion wine. After the onion wine, you will wish you were dead the next day.

Click to expand...

Are you fecking kidding me! Onion wine! Man, I thought I had it bad with Fig wine. Most god aweful stuff I have ever drank.

Matt Up North said:

A lot of people think that the sulfites in wine does it (and it does to some) but apple juice has sulfites and you don't hear people talking about having an apple juice hangover.

Click to expand...

True, but most people don't drink as much apple juice as wine! :cross: