Quadrupel recipe

Well, I've decided that my next brew is going to be a big one. I was looking through some reviews of commercial brews and was quite intrigued by a quadrupel (a la Rochefort 10). Does any have an Extract or PM recipe for something like this? Maybe even just some guidelines? This one will be a couple of weeks off as I need to get some stuff (bigger pot, yet another carboy, etc), but I'd like to have an idea of what I'm making pretty soon.

I've given just a little bit of thought to this, but here's what I came up with..

Quadrupel refers to the fact that you take your first runnings and heat them back up and use it as the mash water for some more grains. Then you take those first runnings, heat them up, and use them as the mash water for some more grains. Then you take those... etc. The first runnings will then have been through 4 Mashes worth of grain.

Its an awesome idea, but you have to keep in mind how many extra fermentables you are throwing away if you aren't putting those grains to a second use!

If you are going to do it, I would try a 2 or 3 gallon batch to keep the amount of grain down to a reasonable level. Then, you can add the 4 batches of grain into the large fermenter and probably get a really impressive 5 gallons "little beer" out of them. Funny thing is though, I'd bet that "little beer" is going to be over 1.070. LOL

AWESOME!!!!!


It'd be a loooong brew day though....

Wow! Sounds involved, especially considering that I've never done AG. So basically it's a ridiculously complex Batch Sparge then? I guess you could fly sparge and make a whole bunch of a small beer from the second runnings (which might be a good idea, 10-15 gallons for friends and you keep the good stuff). It seems like you'd get pretty low efficiency on the third or fourth mash, I guess it would be worth it for great beer though.

Maybe I'll just do a big ESB next, it'd be less work and I've already got the yeast for it.

WOW now this opens up a whole new relm of brewing for me I have gotta try this maybe double at first then move on from there. D.S have you done this or added a decoction in there for good measure. any good recipe ideas to go off of.
Thanks D.S for the input and the feed back
JJ

thebikingengineer said:

Wow! Sounds involved, especially considering that I've never done AG. So basically it's a ridiculously complex Batch Sparge then? I guess you could fly sparge and make a whole bunch of a small beer from the second runnings (which might be a good idea, 10-15 gallons for friends and you keep the good stuff). It seems like you'd get pretty low efficiency on the third or fourth mash, I guess it would be worth it for great beer though.

Maybe I'll just do a big ESB next, it'd be less work and I've already got the yeast for it.

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Well, there's nothing keeping you from replicating the process using a ton of LME or DME. I was just talking about the process generally.

Get yourself a ton of DME and make something up. We are definitely in agreement that your efficiency would suck on the last few batch sparges though.

Also, don't forget about a monster starter or, better yet, pitch on a yeast cake.

I've done a few decoctions, but wasn't happy with the results (It's not the decoctions fault, I just suck at brewing). For simplicity and flavor, I much prefer a 90 minute boil, but I haven't completely given up on decoctions yet... I just don't have any plans to do another one any time soon.

As for recipes, I can't help you. I've never done a dubbel. I want to. I've spent a lot of time thinking about it. I have an AG recipe which I may use to make a dubbel. But that requires an extended brewing session and I don't seem to have much time these days.


Anyway, if I were going to formulate a recipe, I would work in reverse. Start out by figuring out how much grain my MLT could hold for the second runnings. Divide that amount of grain by 2, 3, or 4 (for a dubbel, trippel, or quadrupel).

I would then use a smaller vessel such as the Mini MLT presented on this board (run a search to find it), to make my sets of first runnings, then dumping the grain into the big MLT. FWIW, I would think this could all be done on the stove since you're not boiling anything yet. I would aim to collect enough for 2 to 4 gallons, depending on the size of my main MLT and how much grain it could hold.

Boil, Cool, pitch it on a yeast cake, and let it go. Then worry about what to do with the second runnings. Of course, that will depend on the strong beer recipe.


But come to think of it, I would probably design the light beer first... and let that dictate the quadrupel. Why not do it that way? You're in such a rarified stratum of brewing, my opinion is that you should almost forget about cloning and just have at making something truly unique.

Make your own recipe. That's what I say.

I know how that is. It's gotten to the point where my home is only ever used for sleeping, brew sessions are few and far between unfortunately.

On the upside, I've got a Stout that's finishing up and I'll be pitching this recipe on top of the yeast cake:

1 lbs. Crystal Malt 60°L
6 lbs. Liquid Amber Extract
1 lbs. Dry Amber Extract
2 oz. Hersbrucker (Pellets, 4.00 %AA) boiled 60 min.
1 oz. Willamette (Whole, 5.00 %AA) boiled 15 min.
Yeast : WYeast 1275 Thames Valley Ale

It basically finishes out the hops I have sitting in my freezer right now. It should be pretty good when it's all said and done. I might add more hops, not sure yet.

Damn Squirrels said:

Quadrupel refers to the fact that you take your first runnings and heat them back up and use it as the mash water for some more grains. Then you take those first runnings, heat them up, and use them as the mash water for some more grains. Then you take those... etc. The first runnings will then have been through 4 Mashes worth of grain.

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Quadrupel just means stronger than a tripel. Marketing. It's usually dark, the ones I've had at least, so you can look at the style guides for a dark strong and then just call it "quadrupel" and you're there.
No one in their right mind would mash four times.

Try 7# amber and 4# dark, then steep .25# Special B and maybe .5# Aromatic. Hop to about 35 IBU with something noble or at least clean, like Magnum. throw in some continental hops (Saaz, Hallertau, Spalt, whatever you like) at around 10m left in the boil and pitch a monster starter of any of the abbey yeasts. (530/550, eg.)

abt said:

No one in their right mind would mash four times.

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Wanna bet?


I concur. Nowadays it's more a marketing term than anything else. And if that is acceptable to you, then I presume Budweiser could call their beer a quadrupel and that would be cool with people.

Well, not me. I think this is worth being a little bit EAC about. The name ought to mean something. And it ought to be clearly defined, otherwise what's the point?

Well, yeah, fine. But I've never seen a reference to mashing four times and calling it a quadrupel. Only with the Belgians and their "dubbel and trippel" thing, and then something stronger is made (again, usually dark) and they call it a quadrupel.
What's a tripel? Three mashes? No, it's just stronger than the double. In that way it can be clearly defined, and means something, just not what you're suggesting. Commercial examples include La trappe's, Brewery Ommegang's, and Konigshoven (sp?) - all abbey-style beers brewed stronger than a trippel.
It's like "doppelbock." It isn't two bocks, it's just that the Germans thought it resembled a really strong bock, and so they named it that. (In fact it was a completely different brew, but that's another thread.)
It's like the term "mild." It only means anything in relation to "bitter." Nowadays everyone thinks it means a light beer, but from what we read it's just that it wasn't as highly hopped, and could in fact be even as strong as 6% abv.
Anyway, I don't want to fuss over semantics, I more just didn't want thebikingengineer thinking he had to blow 50# of malt on a 5g batch of "quadrupel."

abt said:

Anyway, I don't want to fuss over semantics, I more just didn't want thebikingengineer thinking he had to blow 50# of malt on a 5g batch of "quadrupel."

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Well, no matter how you mash, you're gonna need at least 30 pounds of grain, I'd say. You're right though. You can make a nice easy drinking lawnmower beer and call it a quadrupel. Nothing's stopping you. You can also call it bordeaux or port or stout. As far as I know, the homebrew police aren't really knocking on peoples' doors about this stuff.

abt said:

Anyway, I don't want to fuss over semantics, I more just didn't want thebikingengineer thinking he had to blow 50# of malt on a 5g batch of "quadrupel."

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I'd never do that, mostly because I haven't made the step to AG yet (soon, very soon), but also because I don't think I have that kind of patience. I'll be doing the ESB I posted next, then probably something a bit bigger (probably a RIS or IIPA depending on my mood at the time). Maybe a year down the road I'll try my hand at that kind of quadrupel, but there'd definitely be more than 5 gal coming out of 50# of malt, that's what second runnings are for.

Damn Squirrels said:

Well, no matter how you mash, you're gonna need at least 30 pounds of grain, I'd say. You're right though. You can make a nice easy drinking lawnmower beer and call it a quadrupel. Nothing's stopping you. You can also call it bordeaux or port or stout. As far as I know, the homebrew police aren't really knocking on peoples' doors about this stuff.

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For the record, I don't think you can reasonably call a lawnmower beer a quadrupel. You can reasonably call a strong Belgian-style beer a quadrupel, especially if it's above 9% abv. The name simply has nothing to do with the mashing schedule. No more than a trippel is "tripel mashed."