aging Belgians

I'm brewing up my first Belgian triple and was wondering about the difference between aging in a carboy vs bottle aging

I want to leave it for about a year. Would it be best in the carboy for 11 months (primary for 1 then secondary) and then bottle for 1 or 2... carboy for 2 months and bottle for 10+... 6 and 6?

If it matters ill be using corked 750s and carbing up to 3.5 to 4 volumes.. for carboys I have plastic and glass and buckets available

Help help!!!

The main difference is after 11 months in secondary you'll probably have to repitch yeast for carbonation. From what I understand bulk aging vs bottle aging is a bit of a debate and I'm not sure how much of a consensus there is on it. Hopefully someone more knowledgeable than me will pop in and help you out.

The high ABV is going to mean that it is going to take quite a while to carb up....somewhere on the order of 6-8 weeks or more. While you still have viable yeast, I'd go ahead and bottle and carb then condition in the bottle. There's not that much of an advantage to bulk conditioning vs. bottle conditioning, so I'd opt for making the carbing process a bit less combersome.

I personally would be in primary for about 4-5 weeks then bottle and age.

Why are you aging this for 11 months? I'm confused.

My Tripels and BGSAs are ready to drink 3 months after brew day.

TopherM said:

The high ABV is going to mean that it is going to take quite a while to carb up....somewhere on the order of 6-8 weeks or more. While you still have viable yeast, I'd go ahead and bottle and carb then condition in the bottle. There's not that much of an advantage to bulk conditioning vs. bottle conditioning, so I'd opt for making the carbing process a bit less combersome.

I personally would be in primary for about 4-5 weeks then bottle and age.

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+1

Just bottled an abbey last week after a little more than 4 weeks in primary. Pretty tasty after 1 week in the bottle and slightly carbonated.

AmandaK said:

Why are you aging this for 11 months? I'm confused.

My Tripels and BGSAs are ready to drink 3 months after brew day.

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Im doing it for the best reason there is: because I can.

Also, thats just not what im looking for. Im sure I can make it and let it sit for 3 months and then drink away and it will be quite good. But I am looking for the added flavors and complexities that the age can add.

Which is why my question was worded like it was... not 'how long should this sit' but 'im going to let this sit for this amount of time, what effects of different methods can I expect'

elleric said:

Im doing it for the best reason there is: because I can.

Also, thats just not what im looking for. Im sure I can make it and let it sit for 3 months and then drink away and it will be quite good. But I am looking for the added flavors and complexities that the age can add.

Which is why my question was worded like it was... not 'how long should this sit' but 'im going to let this sit for this amount of time, what effects of different methods can I expect'

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Hehe. Nanny nanny boo boo, stick your head in doo doo.

TheZymurgist said:

Hehe. Nanny nanny boo boo, stick your head in doo doo.

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Did it really come off like that? Wasn't the intention. The response just didn't adress the question.

Edit: ignore unintentional rhyming.

Bottle it. Like people have said, bulk aging will add to complications with carbing when you do bottle. I have never had a beer that was inherently "better" from bulk or bottle aging.

Just be sure to at least try one at 3-4 months so you can remember how good they were before they started going downhill. While certainly there are beers that benefit with long aging, in my personal experience tripels really do start peaking in flavor around 4 months. Tripels don't really tend to develop those 'aged' flavors like some other styles, but rather lose the certain brightness that, to me, makes the tripel an amazing style. Good luck.

elleric said:

Im doing it for the best reason there is: because I can.

Also, thats just not what im looking for. Im sure I can make it and let it sit for 3 months and then drink away and it will be quite good. But I am looking for the added flavors and complexities that the age can add.

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I didn't pose the question like that to say that you were stupid or that you can't, I have just noticed a shift towards the 'not so fresh' side when I actually did keep a Tripel around for that long.

I brewed one back in Sept 2010 and around July of the next year (after starting to drink it in December), it wasn't so good anymore. It lost it's estery/phenolic/perfumy nose and just kind of fell flat in the aroma department. So I did what anyone would do: I brewed another and drank it quickly after bottling.

YMMV, but in my own experiences, darker beers (ones with more complex flavors that need time to meld & develop - think RIS or BDSA) benefit from aging. Lighter beers (like Tripels, Blondes, or Saisons - ones with more delicate flavors) don't really benefit that much from aging, or in my case, aging degraded the beer.

Yeah, according to Brew Like a Monk, most triples go through a primary fermentation of 10-15 days, then are aged at around 0-2 degrees Celsius For 3-4 weeks. Then re pitched with yeast and bottle conditioned. But if you are going to age as long as you want to, definitely do it in the bottle unless you are aging on wood. Otherwise, it will be sitting on dead yeast for a long long time.

Not sure that I would recommend bottle aging this beer that long either, because you are risking oxidation by working with homebrewer equipment, and you will see those great Belgian yeast aromas fade as it ages.

High alcohol Belgians age phenomenally, in my opinion. If brewed properly, the beer will be great upon bottling, but I dont think referring to it as it ages as "falling off" is appropriate. Sure, a beer will change over time but the only way I could see it being no good after a year is if you had something wrong with it.

bknifefight said:

High alcohol Belgians age phenomenally, in my opinion. If brewed properly, the beer will be great upon bottling, but I dont think referring to it as it ages as "falling off" is appropriate. Sure, a beer will change over time but the only way I could see it being no good after a year is if you had something wrong with it.

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To each their own.

However, I didn't say it was "no good". It changed in a way that I didn't want - the delicate aromas were nearly gone. Was it infected/papery/sour/disgusting? No.

Rehlgood said:

+1

Just bottled an abbey last week after a little more than 4 weeks in primary. Pretty tasty after 1 week in the bottle and slightly carbonated.

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Just did the same with a Belgian Dark Strong with the same results. The good thing is it will get better and better as time goes by.

SteelString_Will said:

Not sure that I would recommend bottle aging this beer that long either, because you are risking oxidation by working with homebrewer equipment, and you will see those great Belgian yeast aromas fade as it ages.

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Really? That's a first for me.....
As long as you do things right, you shouldn't have any oxidation issues..


I vote to bottle now and age in bottle...
I've done both, and theres no difference...plus it frees up a carboy!
Igotsand

I would agree that the Duval aging model is the best for a tripple but the Dark Strong Belgian can benifit from a long bottle ageing. I just got a Chimey Blue with an 2009 date on the cork. Very tasty

I recently started drinking an imperial nut brown that I let bulk age in secondary for about four months, then bottle age for another 4 plus. For what it's worth, I have seen zero issues with carbonation, and this is a better than 8% ABV brew.

AmandaK said:

I brewed one back in Sept 2010 and around July of the next year (after starting to drink it in December), it wasn't so good anymore. It lost it's estery/phenolic/perfumy nose and just kind of fell flat in the aroma department. So I did what anyone would do: I brewed another and drank it quickly after bottling.

YMMV, but in my own experiences, darker beers (ones with more complex flavors that need time to meld & develop - think RIS or BDSA) benefit from aging. Lighter beers (like Tripels, Blondes, or Saisons - ones with more delicate flavors) don't really benefit that much from aging, or in my case, aging degraded the beer.

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I agree with this statement, I can keep RIS, BDSA and Dubbels for very long time and they benefit from long aging, i have 9 months old tripel and it was better two months ago than it is now.

crazyirishman34 said:

I would agree that the Duval aging model is the best for a tripple but the Dark Strong Belgian can benifit from a long bottle ageing. I just got a Chimey Blue with an 2009 date on the cork. Very tasty

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Agreed. I have a BDSA from February of 2011 that is aging magnificently. The version aged on Brett Lambicus is really just awesome - my how it has changed for the better!

Aging Belgians need to be cared for by qualified nurses and doctors, preferrably in their home country of Belgium, much the same was as aging Americans would. Thanks for visiting the forum.

:cross:

igotsand said:

Really? That's a first for me.....
As long as you do things right, you shouldn't have any oxidation issues..


I vote to bottle now and age in bottle...
I've done both, and theres no difference...plus it frees up a carboy!
Igotsand

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Eh, I think anytime you are dealing with siphoning, mixing in sugar, then using gravity bottle filler without counter pressure, you are risking oxidation. And oxidation typically take a while to show up. I'm not saying that it will defintely happen, what I was saying was that I don't understand why you would risk that knowing that the flavor of the beer will not really benefit from a long aging process.

If you are bottle conditioning the beer the yeast will use the small bit of O2 that gets introduced. Especially if you are carbing your beer up to 4 or 4.5 volumes of CO2.

bottle conditioned beer will consume some oxygen and produce co2. Oxidation isn't much of a risk. Many Trappist breweries bottle condition with yeast as well.

Oxidation from corked bottles is more of a risk than oxidation from racking in this case.

Right, again, not saying it is very likely, but it is still a risk, and why would you risk it and age this beer a whole year when it is really done in 3 months?

bknifefight said:

High alcohol Belgians age phenomenally, in my opinion. If brewed properly, the beer will be great upon bottling, but I dont think referring to it as it ages as "falling off" is appropriate. Sure, a beer will change over time but the only way I could see it being no good after a year is if you had something wrong with it.

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Just bottled my first tripel today. Really happy with the nose and flavor of banana bubble gum. ABV was only 7.5 though. Hoping it will pick up another % in the bottle. Not sure about how pumped I am about the priming sugar in the kits. I would prefer it to be really effervescent. Wish I would have pitched again now.