Beer Tools Pro vs. Beer Alchemy

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If needed I have the original post from MD. Some of the ohter boards I am on really frown upon removing content, so if it is needed here. let me know.

I will say that in the last 24 hours I have had 3 different exchanges with Steve, trying to figure out what seems to be a bug on my end.

I could not ask for more in the world of customer service at all.

Tim
 
Here is the entire email conversation with him. You can decide if I was rude or not. The only edits have been for his email address and the overlong email signature...

A business that takes pleasure in refunding money is doomed to fail.
It's a shame that you were incapable of simply being polite to a
customer. Do not contact me about this matter again.

xxx


On Feb 22, 2011, at 5:05 PM, Support - Kent Place Software wrote:

> Done…with pleasure. Your serial number is now deactivated and your
> payment will be returned shortly.
>
> Steve Flack
> Kent Place Software
>


> From: <removed>
> Date: Tue, 22 Feb 2011 16:01:29 -0500
> To: Steve Flack <[email protected]>
> Subject: Re: Recipe update
>
> How about you just refund my money. Plenty of other good programs
> out there. My order number is: ST74480837
>
> xxx
>

>
>
> On Feb 22, 2011, at 3:52 PM, Support - Kent Place Software wrote:
>
>> I do get your point but I'm sorry, it doesn't work that way. If the
>> batch is wrong you will need to change both the batch and the
>> recipe. Alternatively you can delete a batch and create a new one
>> then it will pick up the changes. The situation where you would
>> change a recipe and NOT want the batch to change is more likely in
>> my opinion. You might have made edits to the recipe in the batch
>> you didn't want changed. This is why the app works the way it
>> does. If you disagree then you are entitled to, but don't assume
>> that because you do that my position is wrong. I'm not changing the
>> way the app works to suit the whims of one user.
>>
>> If you think I'm being rude then you are mistaken. I was explaining
>> the situation.
>>
>> Steve Flack
>> Kent Place Software
>>
>> From: <removed>
>> Date: Tue, 22 Feb 2011 15:34:28 -0500
>> To: Steve Flack <[email protected]>
>> Subject: Re: Recipe update
>>
>> Yes I would. I guess you are not understanding the point. If you
>> type in 10 into the grain bill and it automatically inputs 10
>> ounces instead of 10 lbs, then when you correct this error, you
>> would want it to update. If you do not catch the error for a batch
>> or two, then all of your calcs will be wrong. So, while you
>> actually use 10 lbs of grain, the program only reads 10 ounces.
>> You would want the batch to update based on the correct original
>> recipe. This is not after the fact changes to the intent of the
>> recipe. Subsequent changes are made in the subsequent batches, but
>> corrections to the original recipe need to be linked to the batch
>> so they are actively updated and accurate.
>>
>> I feel there is a real need for this, especially since the program
>> auto-updates or scales the recipe based on other functions you may
>> click. For example, if you change water volumes, it will modify
>> the recipe. Even if you used the original amount of grain, your
>> calcs are off because the program made adjustments. you should be
>> able to input the correct information, and the recipe should be
>> linked back to the original so that the cals will always be correct.
>>
>> Please do not make any more off-the-cuff retorts. Your tone is
>> rude and you clearly didn't understand my original question.
>>
>> xxx
>>
>>

>>
>> On Feb 22, 2011, at 3:22 PM, Support - Kent Place Software wrote:
>>
>>> They don't update. That's the point. If you brewed a recipe would
>>> you want a subsequent change in the parent recipe to change a
>>> batch you'd already brewed? The batch is the recipe at the time
>>> the batch was created. After that they can be edited independently
>>> (and in your case will have to be).
>>>
>>> Cheers
>>>
>>> Steve Flack
>>> Kent Place Software
>>>
>>> From: <removed>
>>> Date: Tue, 22 Feb 2011 14:54:25 -0500
>>> To: Steve Flack <[email protected]>
>>> Subject: Recipe update
>>>
>>> Hello,
>>>
>>> My question is concerning recipes and batches in Beer Alchemy. I
>>> created a recipe, then started a batch of a particular recipe. I
>>> found that I had input a wrong amount into the original recipe, so
>>> I corrected this in the original recipe but it failed to update
>>> the target values (based on the correction) in the batch. So, the
>>> target OG and FG values in my batch session is incorrect based on
>>> the modification to the original recipe. How do I get the batches
>>> to update if I make a change to the original recipe?
>>>
>>> xxx
>>>
Click to expand...
 
a_w_taylor said:
...would love to know my thermal mass, but I have 2 little kids and don't have the time to calculate for my 5 gal rubbermaid...
Click to expand...

One thing about this: if you pre-heat your mash tun (I pour in the mash water a bit above strike temperature, close the top, and let it sit 5 minutes), then you can input the the thermal mass as zero.

It's the only software I've used so I can't compare, but I love working with BA.
 
Steve,

Not sure where it all fell apart, but you and your software is top notch in my book.

Tim
 
I wouldn't want that change either, for the exact reason Steve stated. I frequently change my recipes, pretty much every time I brew them, and want the batches to reflect what was brewed at the time. Obviously this guy didn't get Steve's response and understand why you wouldn't want what he proposed to happen.
 
I am sure it was just an inability to communicate ideas across the spectrum of text and type.

Tim
 
No, I don't believe Steve was rude at all. Someone got really anxious because a particular function didn't work the way they thought it should and the developer clearly explained why it doesn't. Frankly, this is another example of why this rather arbitrary recipe -> batch hierarchy fails. I'd like to know how many people see value here. Sure, I've brewed batches a second time based on a given recipe, but what's the big deal naming the first file awesome_apa_1 and the followup one awesome_apa_2?
 
Yeah, if that was rude, I am not sure what not-rude would be. I have emailed Steve a few times and he has always gotten back to me and even addressed most of my issues in later updates.

Honestly, is the batch feature somewhat new? I used Beer Alchemy for about a year before I even knew that feature existed. :eek: I just fix my recipe exactly how I want to do it and when I brew if I am off I just note it in the notes. Maybe I will work on using the batch feature.

I don't buy much software and I would have to say this might be the only software I have bought that I am actually happy to own. Now, Steve, anyway I could convince you to develop a compatible app for Android? Yeah, didn't think so, oh well.
 
Bobby,

I use the batch function alot. I make small changes to the recipe, and make lots of notes in BA. I can go back and find what worked with the beer and what didn't, and I have it all laid out for me in a easy to understand, and use order. Of course as with everything, YMMV. And if i happen to make a change in grain from one to a different, then I just use the Beer v1, beer v2, Beer v3, and so on.

Tim
 
Bobby_M said:
I'd like to know how many people see value here.
Click to expand...

One reason I like to use the batch function is that if you input your inventory and use it in "inventory aware" mode, it will calculate ibus based on your actual hop AAs, and you can then "adjust inventory" after brewing the batch to reflect stuff you've used up. Works well for me.
 
Bobby_M said:
Frankly, this is another example of why this rather arbitrary recipe -> batch hierarchy fails. I'd like to know how many people see value here. Sure, I've brewed batches a second time based on a given recipe, but what's the big deal naming the first file awesome_apa_1 and the followup one awesome_apa_2?
Click to expand...

I couldn't think of NOT using it at this point. I feel it organizes everything perfectly, and I don't have to look at paragraphs of notes for every time I brewed a particular recipe to get some quick info. Plus, I don't think it would track your history if you don't create batches. By using the batch feature, I basically only take notes on out-of-the-ordinary occurances.

Honestly, I settled on BeerAlchemy because of this feature. I didn't like how the BTP kept track of my brews/recipes. I thought it was much more complicated.

I don't use the inventory tracker because I frequently trade ingredients with friends and don't feel like constantly updating all of that, but if you do, batches become even more important.

Steve, if you are still following this, how about a feature that compiles data from within a particular set of batches? IE, a way to chart how the recipe changed or how the particular outcomes changed throughout the set of batches? Let's say I brewed 10 batches of my pale ale. It would be great to have a feature that could tell me how the OG/FG fluctuated, or the IBU's, etc. One of the programs I use at work does something similar in regards to crime trends and its an awesome reporting tool.
 
Airborneguy said:
Steve, if you are still following this, how about a feature that compiles data from within a particular set of batches? IE, a way to chart how the recipe changed or how the particular outcomes changed throughout the set of batches? Let's say I brewed 10 batches of my pale ale. It would be great to have a feature that could tell me how the OG/FG fluctuated, or the IBU's, etc. One of the programs I use at work does something similar in regards to crime trends and its an awesome reporting tool.
Click to expand...
Not a bad idea that one.
 
steve_flack said:
Not a bad idea that one.
Click to expand...

I like that idea too. As a new brewer, I think it would be handy.

btw, this thread made up my mind on which software I should go with, that would be BA. I've always liked developers of any kind (software, mechanical whatever) to be active in popular forums. Steve, thanks for that.

Cheers

Steve
 
not really sure this is the best place for this but I have BTP running under wine on Ubuntu. Runs pretty well but seems to have a little problem with the pop-up dialogues, but I'm not a 100% sure it's a BTP problem as I have other apps that have similar issues under wine. All functionality is there and useable the problem I'm having is that I have to reselect the app to get the pop-up to show up.

As far as I know this is the only brewing software running on ubuntu.
 
Beersmith FTW!

sorry had to do it, I like beersmith. I have the iPhone BA though.
 
I have been using the iBrewMaster for iPad. I think it is a really great application for tracking your recipes and the status of your batches, but if you want good tools for calculating, I would go with some of the other tools.
 
I like the batch feature for multiple reasons:

Track changes in recipes

Auto-correct recipes based on available hop form and IBU

Ability to promote a batch to a recipe (for that stellar APA that I switched from Amarillo to Citra hops)

Ability to scale, so if your only doing 5g batches then you buy additional equipment that can accommodate 10g. You just scale it up and promote.
 
I think Beer Alchemy is probably the best app for the Mac at this point. I briefly tired BeerSmith, but couldn't get over how bad the UI looked and it seemed like it might be overly complex for my relatively simple needs.

For me, the killer feature is being able to sync with the iPhone and iPad versions of the app. It's nice to take the whole thing with you on a portable device but still be able to make edits on a computer - where I find data entry much easier and faster.
 
Fully agree about BeerAlchemy being a very nice and flexible program for the mac and fully functional on the iPhone (and presumably iPad). The synch over wifi is great. I found that I can export as an .xml file and import it into a free app called Brewing Alarm and it will set up a timer for all of my additions. Fun, helpful, and very nerdy ;)
 
mistercameron said:
I think Beer Alchemy is probably the best app for the Mac at this point. I briefly tired BeerSmith, but couldn't get over how bad the UI looked and it seemed like it might be overly complex for my relatively simple needs.
Click to expand...

Yeah, I tried the Mac version of BeerSmith and couldn't get passed that hideous interface. The biggest annoyance was that no matter what I did, I couldn't turn off those help tags which always appeared in front of a control that you were trying to read. Look, feel and operation is just not like a Mac.

I'll be staying with BeerAlchemy and I'm very happy with the way it works. There are some things which I would like to add and/or change but usually I can work around those.
 
I used BeerAlchemy for my first all grain this weekend and I could not find anywhere where it would calculate strike temperatures for mash or sparge. Is that in there somewhere?

Curt
 
Brewitt said:
I used BeerAlchemy for my first all grain this weekend and I could not find anywhere where it would calculate strike temperatures for mash or sparge. Is that in there somewhere?

Curt
Click to expand...

It's under Calculators (find it on the toolbar), find "Mash Calcs" and you get three calculators in the one window.

The left most one: Strike Temperature answers the first part of your question.

Assuming that you batch sparged, use the middle calculator "Step Addition with Boiling Water" to get you the additional water volume to raise to mash out.

cheers!
 
Brewitt said:
I used BeerAlchemy for my first all grain this weekend and I could not find anywhere where it would calculate strike temperatures for mash or sparge. Is that in there somewhere?

Curt
Click to expand...

Did you click the Instructions for the batch? Both of those values are calculated for you on that printable page.
 
Thanks redgum and 509inc, I found both things, neither of which I had noticed before (silly oversight). I think this program is very nicely done and was amazed when I didn't see it. I was looking in the main editor windows for something that would do this for me. I was doing a brew in a bag with a batch sparge by moving the bag to a pot with the higher temp water. The instructions gave me the strike temp I used. I assumed that since my pot was going to be at the temp of the water I didn't need a mash tun mass but apparently that isn't right for some reason. I find that if I add 4lb for the mash tun mass it gives me the temp I needed, exactly the difference that I got from my target for both mash and sparge.

I'll have to try that next time. Maybe my mashout will go better, my efficiency was quite low. Expecting a great beer anyway.

Thanks again,

Curt

Primary: Sculpin IPA clone
Secondary: MT
Bottled: Irish Red Ale, Ranch Road Red IPA (modified Hop Head clone)
 
Brewitt said:
Thanks redgum and 509inc, I found both things, neither of which I had noticed before (silly oversight). I think this program is very nicely done and was amazed when I didn't see it. I was looking in the main editor windows for something that would do this for me. I was doing a brew in a bag with a batch sparge by moving the bag to a pot with the higher temp water. The instructions gave me the strike temp I used. I assumed that since my pot was going to be at the temp of the water I didn't need a mash tun mass but apparently that isn't right for some reason. I find that if I add 4lb for the mash tun mass it gives me the temp I needed, exactly the difference that I got from my target for both mash and sparge.

I'll have to try that next time. Maybe my mashout will go better, my efficiency was quite low. Expecting a great beer anyway.

Thanks again,

Curt

Primary: Sculpin IPA clone
Secondary: MT
Bottled: Irish Red Ale, Ranch Road Red IPA (modified Hop Head clone)
Click to expand...

I've been trying to figure out how to best set up my beer alchemy software to work with my biab setup and I've been wondering about the mash tun thermal mass value. How did you go about figuring out 4 lbs. was the correct value for you. Any insight on this or on what the software is actually using this value for would be helpful.

thanks
 
I back calculated by how much the temperature changed when I added my grain versus how much was expected simply from the grain. However, I am not having much success with that. Now my setup has changed and I need to start all over anyway so I'll post what I learn but so far not I'm not doing so well on that point.
 
I know that this is a bit of a hijack, but I figured this was better than creating a new thread that would be super similar...

So, I'm an Apple user. I've had an iPhone and a Macbook for years, and got an iPad a few months ago. I've taken the past few months (and especially the last few days) to really evaluate all the brewing software I can get my hands on, and I've come to the following conclusions:

1. Brewpal is the best software for the iPhone. Simple, easy to use, easy to configure, and cheap ($.99). HOWEVER - its lack of integration with any other software is a deal-breaker. The beerXML files it generates won't import into Beer Alchemy or Beersmith 2.0. So, while I love this app, I want to be able to use my iPad and sync both of these with my computer. Plus, I'm starting to realize it's not as precise at ABV calculations as I'd like, and it's easy to lose recipes (as I unfortunately found when it overwrote one of my recipes with another). Still, the UI is awesome, I can build a rough recipe really quickly, and it's easy to throw away changes you don't care about. I'll probably keep using this for quick formulations, but it's slowly getting deprecated.

2. Beersmith 2.0 is an immensely powerful piece of software. And it's cheaper than Beer Alchemy ($20 right now for black friday vs. $30 for Alchemy). HOWEVER - the lack of integration with my iDevices means it's not right for me. If I just used the mac to build recipes, or just used a PC, I probably would have settled on this. But, I find myself formulating recipes on my phone all the time, and I love using the iPad to guide me on brew day. So, it's out of the running as well.

3. Beer Alchemy - I wound up picking Beer Alchemy and beginning the slow process of bringing my recipes into it tonight. There's a ton of things I love about it. I created a new recipe on my mac, and then hit 'sync'. I loaded the app on both my iDevices and synched them as well, and all three instantly had the same recipes (as long as they were on the same WiFi). I also like that the BeerXML files that Alchemy exports can be loaded into Beersmith (although it doesn't recognize all the ingredients). So, it gives me synchronization across all my devices, as well as the ability to pull the recipes into another app, both of which were getting really painful on BrewPal. Finally, I found that I really love the inventory management, and I love that I can create a batch of a recipe and tell it to 'adjust inventory', and it reduces my grain and hops inventory appropriately. I'm still learning the software, but there's a ton to like. All in all, while I wish it was cheaper than $30 for the mac version, $10 for the iPad version, and $5 for the iPhone version, I've found that the integration across all three really makes it worthwhile.

tl;dr version: Spent a bunch of time playing with all three apps, and while all three are solid apps, Beer Alchemy is getting my money. Hope this helps someone else out there who is looking at these options.
 
I'm looking at some software now, too. All I can say is the fact that BeerAlchemy has only a Mac port is ridiculous. I will give my money to somebody that makes software available for at LEAST PC and Android... I don't care about OSX or iOS
 
You do realize that it was made because there were no Mac-specific brewing programs, right? The only option was to run a Windows replicator. Beer Alchemy fixed that for Mac users.

If you don't care about the MAC OS's, why would you even look at Beer Alchemy to begin with? I don't go around complaining that PC-based brewing software doesn't work on my Mac.
 
bbbblaine said:
I'm looking at some software now, too. All I can say is the fact that BeerAlchemy has only a Mac port is ridiculous. I will give my money to somebody that makes software available for at LEAST PC and Android... I don't care about OSX or iOS
Click to expand...

BeerAlchemy rocks.

Why read then post something negative on a thread related to Mac software if you dont care about Mac software?

You sir are a ******.
 
I'm looking at some Jeep parts now, too. All I can say is the fact that Ford has only an F150 port is ridiculous. I will give my money to somebody that makes parts available for at LEAST Wranglers and Cherokees... I don't care about Ford or Chevy
 
jeremybrown9 said:
"Beer Tools Pro vs. Beer Alchemy"...now where in there is iBrewmaster?
Click to expand...

It is in the app store on the iPad. Just wanted to offer other options.this thread started a few years back. If something new comes out it should be talked about.
 

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