'Imperial' Cali Lager recipe thoughts?

This is adapted from BierMuncher's Sterling Gold. But I used Different hops and Wyeast 2112 California Lager. Came out super crisp and clean. Liked it a lot.

But want to up the ABV. So I pretty much just doubled the grain bill and its at 7.5%. What you are seeing here is the doubled recipe. Wyeast website says 2112 can handle up to 9%. I uppped the orange peel and corriander and black pepper a bit since there will be so much more grain. Should I still add more? Wonder if I should up the ibu now too?

here is the original Biermuncher recipe, which calls for S-05 but I thought I'd try it with the Wyeast 2112 and it came out awesome the first time...

Any thoughts at all, have at it. I'll be brewing on Saturday. :rockin:

Type: All Grain
Date: 11/3/2012
Batch Size: 11.00 gal
Brewer: Elevated Line
Boil Size: 13.50 gal Asst Brewer: Your Nuts
Boil Time: 90 min Equipment: My Equipment
Taste Rating(out of 50): 35.0 Brewhouse Efficiency: 75.00
Taste Notes: bitter w/ citra? saaz? amarillo? biermuncher recipe calls for sterling hops...
adapted from: https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f62/sterling-gold-3-5-ag-light-zesty-57183/

Ingredients

Amount Item Type % or IBU
2.00 lb Rice Hulls (0.0 SRM) Adjunct 6.06 %
25.00 lb Pilsner (2 Row) Ger (2.0 SRM) Grain 75.76 %
3.00 lb Rye Malt (4.7 SRM) Grain 9.09 %
1.00 lb Cara-Pils/Dextrine (2.0 SRM) Grain 3.03 %
1.00 lb Caramel/Crystal Malt - 10L (10.0 SRM) Grain 3.03 %
1.00 lb Rye, Flaked (2.0 SRM) Grain 3.03 %
1.00 oz Fuggles [4.00 %] (90 min) (First Wort Hop) Hops 6.6 IBU
2.00 oz Cascade [5.40 %] (90 min) (First Wort Hop) Hops 17.8 IBU
2.00 oz Amarillo Gold [7.50 %] (0 min) Hops -
0.75 oz Orange Peel, Bitter (Boil 15.0 min) Misc
0.75 oz Orange Peel, Sweet (Boil 15.0 min) Misc
1.00 oz Coriander Seed (Boil 15.0 min) Misc
1.03 items Whirlfloc Tablet (Boil 15.0 min) Misc
3.00 tsp Pepper, Black (Boil 15.0 min) Misc
2 Pkgs California Lager (Wyeast Labs #2112) Yeast-Lager



Beer Profile

Est Original Gravity: 1.077 SG
Measured Original Gravity: 1.042 SG
Est Final Gravity: 1.023 SG Measured Final Gravity: 1.012 SG
Estimated Alcohol by Vol: 7.06 % Actual Alcohol by Vol: 3.90 %
Bitterness: 24.4 IBU Calories: 185 cal/pint
Est Color: 5.7 SRM Color: Color


Mash Profile

Mash Name: My Mash Total Grain Weight: 33.00 lb
Sparge Water: 7.15 gal Grain Temperature: 72.0 F
Sparge Temperature: 168.0 F TunTemperature: 72.0 F
Adjust Temp for Equipment: FALSE Mash PH: 5.4 PH

My Mash Step Time Name Description Step Temp
75 min Step Add 41.25 qt of water at 161.4 F 150.0 F

Very interesting beer. There's really a lot going on between the three hops, three spices, and 5 malts- can you pick out ingredients like the rye, or are things more melded and together?

I actually did an 'Imperial Common' recently, which is the big brother to our house california common fermented with WLP810. Like the CC, the imperial is all Northern Brewer hops, and hopped up like an IPA. Similar ABV to yours, though. It came out really nice- great beer! Because of the IPA like character, we're calling it a San Diego Common Beer.

daksin said:

Very interesting beer. There's really a lot going on between the three hops, three spices, and 5 malts- can you pick out ingredients like the rye, or are things more melded and together?

I actually did an 'Imperial Common' recently, which is the big brother to our house california common fermented with WLP810. Like the CC, the imperial is all Northern Brewer hops, and hopped up like an IPA. Similar ABV to yours, though. It came out really nice- great beer! Because of the IPA like character, we're calling it a San Diego Common Beer.

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I last brewed it like 15 years ago, and didnt take good enough taste notes regarding all the grains and what not. my notes basically just say "this freaking beer kicks ass!" ..not very helpful, but pretty radical.. I do remember thinking the spices didnt really come thru specifically, but just kind of added something a little extra..

Anyways Biermunchers uses all Sterling hops. I had used fuggles and cascade becuase I was on a fuggles kick at that moment. He also didn't have flaked rye in there, but i figure with the 3# of Rye and 25#(!) of Pilsner, an extra pound of flaked rye can't really hurt the flavor.. I mean for the carapils to add some head. And I kinda just put crystal in every beer for that hint of sweetness. I am open to ideas on all of this. I don't do lagers often at all, so when i create recipes I almost always throw in crystal and carapils becuase mostly I do IPAs and Stouts.. Also why I liked the Wyeast Cali Lager, becuase 2 weeks at like 60 degree and it produced a super clean, clear, crispy beer like a lager yeast. No diacetyl rest, no 'lagering' for two months necessary... My garage is 55-60 at the moment so its the perfect time..

Keep it simple? One hop all the way through? Less spices? No Crystal? My ears are open. What about Saaz all the way through for extra spiciness? Or Amarillo and citra all the way thru with some earthy fuggles at the end too for floral and earthy to mix with the spices? :rockin:

jackson_d said:

I last brewed it like 15 years ago

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1.5. 1.5 years ago. ONE POINT FIVE YEARS AGO.

Jesus I'm not that old just yet..

I last brewed it ONE POINT FREAKING FIVE YEARS AGO.

daksin love the idea of an Imperial Ca Common sounds great to me.

Waynep005 said:

daksin love the idea of an Imperial Ca Common sounds great to me.

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It's really good! We'll be pouring it at our Kickstarter Launch party next sunday if you want to try it! Just a quick drive

Anyway, threadjack aside, jackson_d is really old.

If you liked your beer, jackson_d, brew it up again! There's really no need for adding any head-increasing ingredients in any beer with 3# of rye. For head retention, rye is like wheat on steroids. that said, there's really very little crystal in the recipe and I think it should stay. I personally would drop the spices and let the malt and hops shine in this beer, but I'm not a big spice guy in general. I'd definitely hop it up a bit- get some flavor and aroma additions in there. Big citrusy hops will be tasty.

I would really like to taste this beer, too see if I like it or not Very origonal and different.

daksin said:

If you liked your beer, jackson_d, brew it up again! There's really no need for adding any head-increasing ingredients in any beer with 3# of rye. For head retention, rye is like wheat on steroids. that said, there's really very little crystal in the recipe and I think it should stay. I personally would drop the spices and let the malt and hops shine in this beer, but I'm not a big spice guy in general. I'd definitely hop it up a bit- get some flavor and aroma additions in there. Big citrusy hops will be tasty.

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Very cool, thanks! I think I may leave out the spices. Or maybe like half as much orange peel and thats it.... And probably will go with Cascade and Amarillo then (LHBS is out of Citra and so is Hops Direct and freshhops.com doesn't stock it apparently). And no Carapils.

Thanks man. If I think of it I'll post a pic and taste notes in like 4 weeks.

Still open to suggestions if anyone else has anything to add :rockin:

Is 2lb of rice hull necessary. I do a roggenbier thats 50% rye and I only use half a pound. I also pre-soak them cuase the absorb some of my mash water.

A couple things -

Cal common yeast is notorious for low attenuation - Unless you want a sweet beer I would consider adding some simple sugars to help it attenuate.
I did an American barley wine/imperial steam beer with 10% sugar and it worked great (though my beer was 1.100 OG and ended up being 10.5%).

I would drop the rice hulls, 12% rye shouldn't even come close to gumming up your system.

skibb said:

Cal common yeast is notorious for low attenuation - Unless you want a sweet beer I would consider adding some simple sugars to help it attenuate.

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I haven't had this experience. My regular CC never has any problems getting down to FG 1.009 in a couple of days at 59F. Oxygen and pitching rates, brothers!

daksin said:

I haven't had this experience. My regular CC never has any problems getting down to FG 1.009 in a couple of days at 59F. Oxygen and pitching rates, brothers!

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I do have the O2 system from Williams Brewing. I love it. My friend was all "that thing is a waste of money!" but i got it anyways and I often see airlock activity hours after pitching and 5 or 6% beers get to 1.012 in like 3 days.. Makes Jack a happy boy. I still always let any beer sit in primary at least 14 days, just saying i like to know the yeast eats all its food in 3 or so days..

Anyways- rice hulls. Must be my MLT, but I swear like every 4th brew day I get a slightly stuck sparge. Last time it happened was with a 4% blonde I did and the grain bill was only like 12#. I didn't mean to put 2# for this recipe, but I will def use a pound just based on the total amount of grain in there in the first place. I thought Pilsner was a tiny bit stickier than 2 Row? I've not used Pilsner a ton... The Founder's Breakfast Stout Clone I did about a month ago that had 37# total grain I used 2# rice hulls and still had a really slow sparge... Guess that means it might be time to put in a new SS braid in my MLT..

The Wyeast site says 2112 can handle a 9% beer. This one will be ~7.5% if I hit my efficiency as usual. I am going to brew shop today, will buy 2 packets and make a starter and stick it on the stir plate tongiht so by Saturday mid afternoon the yeasties will have had a chance to have lots of sex and lots of babies.. Last time I did this beer it ended up super dry and I think it came down to 1.009. I'm not super excited about adding honey or dextrose but I'll consider it. I almost always run my recipes by the 'head brewer' at the LHBS who's been doing this for like 27 years and has tons of good advice. I'll ask him about it too.
:rockin:

daksin said:

I haven't had this experience. My regular CC never has any problems getting down to FG 1.009 in a couple of days at 59F. Oxygen and pitching rates, brothers!

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Well, i'm like 29 days past brewing this thing. And its only at 1.019. It tastes delicious, the blow off tube is still bubbling slowly and has been since brewing. So the starter I made a day earlier probably didnt have enough time to really take off. Or I should have added a little bit of corn sugar like was suggested.. I've never had problems before though... OG 1.069 and its been at 57-59 degrees for the last 29 days..

I figured I'd leave it for just one more week, then rack to secondary and bring it out of the garage so it warms up to 67 or so for another week or two. See if that won't help it get down to 1.009..