Ever built a still?

Homebrew Talk - Beer, Wine, Mead, & Cider Brewing Discussion Forum

Help Support Homebrew Talk - Beer, Wine, Mead, & Cider Brewing Discussion Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.
Status
Not open for further replies.

Ó Flannagáin

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 23, 2007
Messages
2,998
Reaction score
37
Location
Wichita Falls, Tx
My roommate and I did when I was 17, just moved out of my folks house. Was incredibly fun and ridiculous. We built two actually, the first one leaked real bad, and we learned from it. We stopped the distilling process almost immediately, went back to sears and built a second one... worked like a charm. We had moonshine for about 6 months straight. We did a 3 brownsugar batches. Is probably around 150% alcohol, and got us HAMMERED drunk. Mad excellent gifts as well. We were pretty big potheads back in the day and we put 7 ounces of some Blueberry Skunk in a mason jars worth and let it sit for 2 months... that stuff was unbelievable.
 
Hmm when I was at the lhbs a few weeks ago it was mentioned how illegal stills are. If you are found in possesion of a still the feds can take EVERYTHING in your home. That was the warning we recieved.
 
Well, was 6 years ago for me, don't have one now. I've heard a rumor that several states allow a still that can hold up to 5 gallons of liquid in your home.

Not to mention, we got the idea from a book we bought at our lhbs, it had complete directions for beer, wine and ... building a still from copper tubing and a 5 gallon stainless steel pot.
 
Erm no......... It's illegal to distill alcohol.
Not a good thing to discuss on a public forum.
But if you want to distill water or essential oils then that's a different thing.:p
 
I'm 99% sure that distilling is illegal in all 50 states (without proper license). It is legal in a handful of foreign countries (New Zealand?).

In any case, I know that some people here have stills, I personally don't mind - but this probably isn't the best forum for that conversation. There are a few more-specialized websites that you might want to look into (COUGH! COUGH! http://homedistiller.org/ COUGH!)
 
I would highly recommed that this discussion take place outside this site altogether. This site is for people who love and enjoy the legal privilege of homebrewing beer and wine. Distilling is absolutely illegal and even if you find some obscure place where it is, please discuss it elsewhere. I speak for myself when I say that I do not condone discussion of something illegal on this forum especially when those in the discussion make clear their immaturity in declaring their pursuits got them "HAMMERED drunk".

Don't take it the wrong way. I was your age once and there may have even been times where I though getting hammered was a cool thing; but take it from me, it greatly increases your chances of doing something you could regret.
 
Wow, ok, sorry, thought the drunken ramblings forum would be for, well, drunken ramblings. Including being hammered drunk, and teenage idiocy. Sorry to have offended anyone in an anonymous alcohol forum... truly unexpected response, if I could delete the post I would.
 
seefresh said:
Wow, ok, sorry, thought the drunken ramblings forum would be for, well, drunken ramblings. Including being hammered drunk, and teenage idiocy. Sorry to have offended anyone in an anonymous alcohol forum... truly unexpected response, if I could delete the post I would.

No one here wants to make you feel unwelcome. Just don't discuss anything illegal. While you might maintain anonymity, the forum itself is public. You'll find that there are alot of great people here who really love the hobby and are glad to help. Discussion about idiocy is certainly welcome. We all like to laugh too and we've all done our share of stupid things.

I'm sorry about the intensity of my reply. I tend to be protective (maybe overly so) about the priviledge to be able to brew my own beer. You can imagine what it would be like if someone or some group decided to go on a crusade because they thought homebrewing was the latest evil, and they started snooping around HBT. A thread titled "Ever built a still?" would be ammunition in their hands.

Like I said before, "Don't take it the wrong way."
 
I don't see a problem with this discussion at all.

"Drunken Ramblings and Mindless Mumbling
The title says it all.

THIS FORUM IS NOT WORK SAFE
YOU MUST BE 18+ TO ENTER"

Seems to fall into the guidelines of the forum.

If people don't like forums that are not moderated and cant handle the topics being disused then they should use a more user friendly forum.

"General Chit Chat
Talk of everyday things in life. Keep it clean!"
 
The problem is that distilling is illegal. I have mentioned NUMEROUS times that the only reason I started brewing wsa to learn how to mash so I could distill but I have never mentioned (at least I dont think I have) if I am actually distilling or not.

Retarded as it is in the governments eyes if you are distiling or have been distilling is just as bad as running a meth lab.

Now I'm 99.9% sure that the ATF isn't watching this site just waiting to pounce on the first person to admit to brewing that 1 galon of homebrew past their household limit, BUT at the same time I wouldnt be airing out my laundry here.

(99.9% WOW, thats comming from someone that doesnt trust his government 1 bit, I'm getting soft in my old age . . . budbo you need to straighten me out)
 
If I was a FED in the alcohol section I would be looking at sites like this to see what is going on. Would be stupid not to.

ARE THERE ANY FEDS HERE????

..are you a FED?
 
Sorry about my response, could be considered over-reacting as well. I've read (in this same 18+ forum section) people talk about taking LCD (*edited- I mean LSD), ****ting their pants and plenty of stealing things, defacing property and of course tons of marijuana involved stories. I didn't think adding a 6 year old story of a 5 gallon still was adding too much to the pile. But, I'll keep those stories for late night verbal ramblings in real life.

Sorry again for those offended.
 
Distilling is illegal in all 50 states and most every where else. New Zealand has legalized it and there is a bunch of cool stuff happening there. I have had the chance to do it commercially and think it is about as much fun as brewing (almost!)
 
seefresh said:
I've read (in this same 18+ forum section) people talk about taking LCD, ****ting their pants and plenty of stealing things, defacing property and of course tons of marijuana involved stories. . . .

Sorry again for those offended.
I avoid those thread normally (except sharting your pants, it's not illegal and funny as hell)

BTW I honestly think I am un-offendable (I just tend to write people off as morons, but your safe;) ) so no worries
 
seefresh said:
Wow, ok, sorry, thought the drunken ramblings forum would be for, well, drunken ramblings. Including being hammered drunk, and teenage idiocy. Sorry to have offended anyone in an anonymous alcohol forum... truly unexpected response, if I could delete the post I would.

seefresh, if you want me to delete this I will.

Everyone else, lay off a little! I haven't read the law where it says we can't talk about distilling! It is extremely interesting and something I would love to be able to do as well.

seefresh didn't do anything wrong in my eyes, he even posted this in the right spot! I've seen MUCH worse on this forum.

Let's just try to be a little more accomodating.

kthx.
 
seefresh said:
Sorry about my response, could be considered over-reacting as well. I've read (in this same 18+ forum section) people talk about taking LCD, ****ting their pants and plenty of stealing things, defacing property and of course tons of marijuana involved stories. I didn't think adding a 6 year old story of a 5 gallon still was adding too much to the pile. But, I'll keep those stories for late night verbal ramblings in real life.

Sorry again for those offended.


Man, no worries from this front. Create a story around it. "I was thinking about a time when something inhabited my body and I got the idea to distill alcohol, and then for fun added some really good herbs for dry-hopping purposes. We ended up with some really great beverages and the next hookah party was amaaaaazzzzing. Then again the whole thing could have been implanted subliminally in my mind by the gypsy that lived upstairs."

Just a ramble... :drunk: :D


Ize
 
seefresh said:
Sorry again for those offended.
Everything is a-okay. It's not that people are offended, it's just the legality question. There have been a number of posts recently from underage kids asking how to basically make hooch in their room. Many of use here don't want to intentionally encourage underage drinking, especially when there could be a possibility of it getting the site into legal trouble. Distilling is kinda in that same ballpark. It's a very interesting subject and one that should be discussed, but the fact that doing it at home remains illegal in the US makes some of us a little leery about divulging a bunch of info. Mostly just as a precaution against some nosey ninny trying to shut the site down.

Dude hit it right on the head. You posted in the right section! :drunk: Distillation has me interested, although, if I was going to do any, I don't know if I would admit it. :D
 
Yes, and you can distill water legally. As well as essential oils from plants and that kind of stuff.
 
Its not too hard to obtain a license for distilling alcohol for alternate fuels. I knew some guys in Asheville, NC that had the license and were making TONS. THey had a huge still in their basement.

Is it legal to do the old freeze your beer, collect the alcohol thingy? My friend told me about making some apple cider and doing the freezing thing.

Personally I'm more of a beer man, but I do have a taste for liquor (not like I used to). I love a tumbler of Dewar's on the rocks, I'm also fond of some high end bourbon on the rocks. Crafting liquor is a bit of an art itself.
 
The freezing beer thing is not distillation by the scientific definition, but according to the law it is. It is also illegal. :(
 
You can obtain a License from ATF in order to distill ethanol for use in engines. Its a lengthy process but entirely legal in most states. I bet in 50 years when our oil runs out everyone will have themselves a nifty reflux still in their backyards along with several rows of corn...

Also I would not be concerned with "underage distillers". The process and equipment needed to make good hooch is greatly more complicated that making good beer. I'm sure 99.9999% of underage drinkers out there wouldn't make the effort or know how to begin in the first place.
 
gonzoflick said:
I bet in 50 years when our oil runs out everyone will have themselves a nifty reflux still in their backyards along with several rows of corn...

I'll take that bet . . . The reason it's illegal to distill isnt for safety or temprence it's because Uncle Sam wants his tax $$
 
A friend of mine is a 'wine guy' and when he got married a few years ago someone bought him THIS - it is a small scale home distillation kit. I mention <and link> it for discussion purposes, not to condone the potential use of it. Now, I'm not going to trust a writeup in a catalog as fact but they specifically mention that it is "legal in most states" to distill up to 5 gallons per year. Any insight into this? I mean, if it is absolutely illegal then how does this company get away with selling the kit specifically as a 'distillation kit'?

And BTW, it works. We've made all sorts of interesting stuff, mainly grappas. :drunk:
 
It makes me feel dirty to even go to the below site BUT . . . .
http://www.ttb.gov/spirits/faq.shtml

What is proof?

Proof is a method of measuring the alcohol content of spirits. You calculate the proof of a spirits product is by multiplying the percent of alcohol by volume by two (2). For example, a spirits product that has a 40% alcohol content by volume is 80 proof [40 multiplied by 2 = 80]. f?

Converting U.S. gallons into proof gallons for tax purposes:

1. Multiply U.S. gallons by the percent of alcohol by volume.

2. Multiply by 2.

3. Divide by 100.

Sample calculation:

1. 100 U.S. gallons x 40% alcohol by volume=4000

2. 4000 x 2=8000

3. 8000/100= 80 proof gallons


S3: I've seen ads for home distilling equipment in catalogs ("turn wine into brandy," "make your own essential oils"). Is it legal to buy and use a still like that?

Under Federal rules administered by TTB, it depends on how you use the still. You may not produce alcohol with these stills unless you qualify as a distilled spirits plant (see earlier question). However, owning a small still and using it for other purposes is allowed. You should also check with your State and local authorities - their rules may differ.

A still is defined as apparatus capable of being used to separate ethyl alcohol from a mixture that contains alcohol. Small stills (with a cubic distilling capacity of a gallon or less) that are used for laboratory purposes or for distilling water or other non-alcoholic materials are exempt from our rules.
If you buy a small still and use it to distill water or extract essential oils by steam or water extraction methods, you are not subject to TTB requirements. If you produce essential oils by a solvent method and you get alcohol as a by-product of your process, we consider that distilling. Even though you are using and recovering purchased alcohol, you are separating the alcohol from a mixture -distilling.


S4: What requirements are there for people who sell stills?

Under regulations in part 29 of title 27, Code of Federal Regulations, TTB has the right to require manufacturers of stills to give us the name and address of each customer. If we choose to impose this requirement, we inform the manufacturer of the stills by letter.


S5: How can I use distilled spirits in an industrial product or process without having to pay the excise tax?

The Internal Revenue Code provides three methods for doing this.

Spirits that are denatured (i.e., treated with substances to make them unsuitable for human beverage consumption) may be used free of tax by a person who holds an industrial use permit. However, no permit is needed to use completely denatured alcohol or an approved article made from denatured spirits. Denatured spirits are suitable in a wide range of industrial applications, from mouthwash to fuel, etc., but not in products for internal human consumption, unless the spirits are removed.
Persons such as research laboratories, hospitals, universities and government agencies may use un-denatured tax-free alcohol if they hold an industrial use permit. Un-denatured tax-free alcohol is prohibited from use in the manufacture of any product for sale.
Un-denatured distilled spirits on which the tax has been paid may be used in the manufacture of medicines, medicinal preparations, food products, flavors, flavoring extracts, and perfume; and then drawback may be claimed. This drawback is similar to a refund; however, the drawback rate is $1 per proof gallon less than the applicable tax rate. The Government keeps the difference. For further information on using distilled spirits in any of these ways, please contact the TTB National Revenue Center at (800) 398-2282.
S6: How do I obtain a “student permit” to demonstrate alcohol production for a school science project?

Have you heard about the science fair project or school project where a student:

Builds a homemade still,
Lets leftover food scraps ferment and turn into alcohol,
Burns the alcohol in a lantern, and
Compares the alcohol to other sources of energy?
A. Well, under current law and regulations, we cannot allow you to conduct experiments involving distillation of alcohol at your home.

As an alternative, Federal law allows us to issue a permit for an alcohol fuel plant, or AFP. Under this type of permit, experiments with alcohol fuels can be conducted at locations properly qualified with TTB.

Here's what has to be done:

An authorized representative of your school (a teacher or other school official) must complete and forward an application form 5110.74 to us to establish a small AFP at your school.
The experiment must be conducted at your school under appropriate adult supervision.
The school official must tell us how long the experiment will last. They may allow for additional time in case your experiment is selected for additional competition or display at a regional or area science fair. And,
The school official must describe the adult supervision that will be provided. We require this because we are concerned about the safety of children handling hazardous materials and using distillation equipment with alcohol-even with adult supervision.
These steps apply primarily to students who are in elementary through high school. Make sure your application is filed as soon as possible to allow enough time for us to process it. You cannot begin the experiment until we issue you a permit.

Application form 5110.74 and additional information are available from the Alcohol and Tobacco Tax and Trade Bureau, National Revenue Center, Spirits Unit A, 550 Main Street, Room 8002, Cincinnati, OH 45202-3263, 1-800-398-2282 or (513) 684-7150, [email protected].

S7: Can I produce beer, wine or spirits for my personal or family use without paying Federal excise tax and filing Federal paperwork?

Beer

Production.

Removal of beer.

Wine

Wine for personal or family use.

Spirits

You cannot produce spirits for beverage purposes without paying taxes and without prior approval of paperwork to operate a distilled spirits plant. [See 26 U.S.C. 5601 & 5602 for some of the criminal penalties.] There are numerous requirements that must be met that make it impractical to produce spirits for personal or beverage use. Some of these requirements are paying special tax, filing an extensive application, filing a bond, providing adequate equipment to measure spirits, providing suitable tanks and pipelines, providing a separate building (other than a dwelling) and maintaining detailed records, and filing reports. All of these requirements are listed in 27 CFR Part 19.

Spirits may be produced for non-beverage purposes for fuel use only without payment of tax, but you also must file an application, receive TTB's approval, and follow requirements, such as construction, use, records and reports.

Now dont get me wrong.
HYPOTHETICAL SITUATION TIME

If you were to contact me privatly I MAY tell you which sites to go to for information, which sites to go to for supplys and equipment, and even give you a nice solid pat on the back and tell you "have fun and Stick it to the Man"

Sometimes I'm more like Dale Dribble (King of the Hill) then I like to admit
 
Ok, here's a question. Is it possible to brew something that is 40-50% alcohol? Can't you jus have a little water and a TON of sugar? Would that work? If so, is it ever done, is there stuff made that way?

I personally would never do this, because if I'm brewing, I'm making beer.. plain and simple, but very curious about the science behind what we do.
 
seefresh said:
Ok, here's a question. Is it possible to brew something that is 40-50% alcohol? Can't you jus have a little water and a TON of sugar? Would that work? If so, is it ever done, is there stuff made that way?

I personally would never do this, because if I'm brewing, I'm making beer.. plain and simple, but very curious about the science behind what we do.

The yeast die long before you get to that point. The highest alcohol % beer ever made is Sam Adams' Utopias, at ~25%. Even distillers' yeast won't get you much past 25%.
 
It does make one wonder if we'll ever see distilling become legal. Funny how a very simple manipulation of alcohol and water can get one into so much trouble, but there it is.

As for me, I'll stick with beer. :mug:
 
seefresh said:
Ok, here's a question. Is it possible to brew something that is 40-50% alcohol? Can't you jus have a little water and a TON of sugar? Would that work? If so, is it ever done, is there stuff made that way?

I personally would never do this, because if I'm brewing, I'm making beer.. plain and simple, but very curious about the science behind what we do.

The difference with distilling is you are taking out a cut of all the chemicals that are in any ferment. Quality stills help you refract, or take out a fraction of your ferment. The distiller's art is getting the "heart" of their ferment/mash and having that carry over into their final product. Strong drinks, like you speak of can be produced, but the end product is not anything I would find enjoyable to drink. If I want to get drunk I can buy a cheap bottle of hooch, but to enjoy a glass of spirits is a whole other thing.
 
I know this isn't some kid asking "How to" but.

We could do with a sticky on this one.


It is dangerous to give information on distilling if it does not give full information and advise. Then there is the moral and legal issue of doing so and using this board to do so.

I'm not willing to enter into a debate on this.

Distilling is illegal in the US and UK and lots of other countries. More importantly it's possible to Drink one glass of the wrong part of distillate and blind or kill yourself. I've posted this before but as little as 10 to 30 cl is all that's required to kill you're self. For those that a sceptical do a little research on Methanol poisoning.
You've seen the type of people who come to the board asking how to make cheap hooch!!!!!!

Two faced? maybe but all I'm saying is Please let people wanting to distil do their own research.
 
orfy said:
If posted this before but as little as 10 to 30 cl is all that's required to kill you're self. For those that a sceptical do a little research on Methanol poisoning.
You've seen the type of people who come to the board asking how to make cheap hooch!!!!!!

Two faced? maybe but all I'm saying is Please let people wanting to distil do their own research.

Yeah. If someone made something pretty nasty and got ill/did some damage and it was found out that some little bit of info came from here that would be bad. And easy to trace. I don't know what kind of liability would be involved but it seems like something worth staying away from.
 
Instead of going round and round debating the legal and moral ramifications on this issue, I have emailed Gary Glass, the Director of the American Homebrewers Association. I did not mention this forum directly in my email. My questions were relavant to any homebrewing forum. I think it would be good to hear the AHA's take on the issues we question. Keep in mind, I am asking for their advice for the good of the forum and for the good of the entire hobby. They are the largest advocate for the hobby in the world and I think their advice would be better than our own speculations. Here is a copy of the email I sent.

Dear Mr. Glass,

I am an avid homebrewer and have been involved in the hobby since 1992. When I
started out, the virtues of the internet and its ability to enhance knowledge
and awareness, and open homebrewers to a world of suppliers was non existent.
Today I am a member of a very popular homebrewing forum. Recently there has been
a bit of discussion on the forum regarding legal and moral issues which forum
users and administrators can face. Since the AHA is a strong advocate for
homebrewing privileges, I would like to pose a couple of questions directly.

1. Should a public home brewing forum require that it's members or visitors be
of legal drinking age in their respective country to gain access to the forum?
If so, should this be done in the same way major brewers limit access to their
sites or would an obvious legal statement on the site's homepage suffice?

2. If someone on the forum notices or recognizes that someone posting and
querying the site is indeed a minor, should they be openly discouraged? What additional action should be taken by the site administrator?

3. If someone on a forum poses questions about distilling liquor and/or admits
to distilling liquor, should they be admonished? Some people feel that simply
discussing distilling is not illegal, so no harm is done. Do you feel that harm
can indeed be done regardless? What actions would be appropriate by an
administrator under these circumstances?

I pose these questions because I thoroughly enjoy having my privilige to brew
beer. I want people to see that beer is every bit as sophisticated as wine, if
not more so. If someone were to conjure up an image of a wine connosieur, I'm
sure they would automatically think of someone who is a professional in their
occupation, very intelligent and well mannered. "Fraiser Krane" Now ask the same
person to think of someone who is a beer connosieur. First off, they would
probably looked puzzled because you refered to someone who enjoys beer as a
"connosieur". Next they would probably think of someone who is a blue collar worker, probably because they can't do much better with
their life, of average intelligence at best and likely to be rather uncouth. "Al
Bundy" Of course we all know that is farthest from the truth. Homebrewers come
from all walks of life, are certainly intelligent, because brewing itself is a
science mixed with equal parts art, and many of them are the nicest people you
would ever know. Of course we all know that there are probably people out there
who would love to demonize our hobby; because they want to believe the
stereotype. To them, homebrewers are even worse, because they probably think we
whip up giant batches of cheap swill in our bathtubs with the sole intention of
maintaining some state of perpetual inebriation. My fear is that if someone
wanted to embark on a crusade against our great hobby, they would have to look
no further than one of these public forums and see what appears to be an
abandonment of moral and legal consciousness.

I refer to my ability to brew beer as a privilege. Just as we are taught that driving is not a right, it is a
privilege that can be taken away if abused, the same rings true for homebrewing.
The last thing we want to put on public display is a lack of scruples. Your
thoughts on this topic would be refreshing. Thank you for your time.

Sincerely,

A Concerned Homebrewer
 
erbiumyag,

This guys answer is going to be biased, he has his own opinions on the matter. I just want to say, that when I was 17 I walked into a lhbs, bought "The Alaskan Bootlegger's Bible" and then proceeded to hold the book in my hand and by all the equipment for a still. The lhbs did not ID me, because legally they could not, I was buying a book, pots and yeast. There is nothing liable or illegal about this post. You can go to many many forums and learn how to grow marijuana, hell, you can go to barnes and noble and learn how to grow marijuana, mushrooms or distill liquor. There are no liability issues, I assure you.

and yes, I feel personally attacked by this question posted on my discussion topic:
3. If someone on a forum poses questions about distilling liquor and/or admits
to distilling liquor, should they be admonished? Some people feel that simply
discussing distilling is not illegal, so no harm is done. Do you feel that harm
can indeed be done regardless? What actions would be appropriate by an
administrator under these circumstances?
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top