Cloudy beer problem

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Djuhnk

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I just started brewing on a 10 gallon system, each time (3 batches) I have ended up with very cloudy beers. I mash in a 10 gallon Rubbermaid with false bottom and I have been mashing for a long time to make sure I get full conversion. I have used 2 varieties of American ale and a northwest ale yeast. I have also let the beers sit in the fridge for at least 3 weeks before jumping to conclusions. Any ideas?
 
I also want to add that along with the cloudiness there is also off flavors I can't put my finger on. And I also only use a primary and usually ferment in that for a week and a half and then rack to a keg, carbonate it and let it sit out for a couple days before chilling it.
 
At 1.5 weeks,I don't think the beer has had time to clean up by products of fermentation & settle out clear or slightly misty before proceeding. Mine get 3 weks on average. The interesting part is that extract brews clear a bit faster than my partial mash ones do. I've used US-05,a medium flocculation yeast,& Cooper's ale yeast,a high flocculation yeast. Both rehydrated,& both times,the beer was slightly misty on bottling day. I figured the grains have something to do with this. But they settle out clear a few days in the bottle.
And since you have some off flavors,I'd say you're kegging too son. More time seems to be in order.:mug:
 
Does the cloudiness go away when the beer warms up? Could be chill haze.

But I agree that it's probably just too young. Are you using any finning agents?
 
i havent used any finning agents. ive been doing some research on hot break and boil times. the last three beers i have dont only have aroma hops so i only boil them 10-15 minutes but im reading i need to boil them for longer to coagulate all the proteins and to volatize DMS. this could be my problem....

ill check if cloudiness goes away when warmed. doesnt chilling a beer usually cause all the proteins and yeast to settle out though? how does chill haze work?

in the past, young flavors have gone away after a week or two in the fridge. ive been brewing for 3 years and just switched systems now im getting this.

thanks for the help guys
 
Does the beer taste bandaidish? You might not be boiling long enough to drive off all of the DMS. getting it cooled faster will cause a cold break that will help clear it as well. You could also try gelatin to clear it.

And chill haze works when the tannins and proteins bond and participate out, they don't settle out, just larger molecules.

On a side note, with no bittering hops, how long does your beer keep? hops are a preservative as well as a flavor addition.
 
yeah the last one tasted quite bandaidish. or cardboardy. I was confused cuz i almost thought it tasted like oxidation.

so what causes chill haze/ how can you avoid it?

my beer keeps great, ive had 2 year old bottles of beer that have kept without much hopping. I do always add at least one ounce of hops though, i just dont do many full boil hopping. also, ive always heard yeast played a big part as a preservative.

im going to boil for the full 60 next time and we'll see what happens.
 
I also want to add that along with the cloudiness there is also off flavors I can't put my finger on. And I also only use a primary and usually ferment in that for a week and a half and then rack to a keg, carbonate it and let it sit out for a couple days before chilling it.

A week and a half and then rack to a keg. I can't say specifically which process this interrupts causing which specific defect, but I can say this goes against almost every successful brewers' methods. You are halting the yeast's cycle, throwing it in a keg and carbing it up for a quick pour, and suffering the consequences. Patience is key. I never keg a beer in less than 3 weeks, and also never set any particular schedule for when I will keg it. I wait for terminal gravity, then at least another week (depending on style) on the yeast
for things to settle out and be re-absorbed by the yeast. It's been working great as friends, family and even a home brew competition judge have told my beers are great! :ban:
 
With chill haze, i believe the tannins are negatively charged, and the proteins are positively charged (I could have those mixed up) but either way, finning agents have a charge as well, so if you use a putatively charged one, it should take some of the negatively charged tannins with it when it settles out. Or vis versa.
 
I know I could be a little more patient on the racking, but racking to my keg and letting it sit could also be looked at as a secondary fermentation.

Anyways, with a better bottle, how do you guys usually do the final gravity testing? I know the process of testing for it but i just never want to take the top off and risk contamination/oxidation each time you test it.
 
I know I could be a little more patient on the racking, but racking to my keg and letting it sit could also be looked at as a secondary fermentation.

Anyways, with a better bottle, how do you guys usually do the final gravity testing? I know the process of testing for it but i just never want to take the top off and risk contamination/oxidation each time you test it.

I use the ported ones with the racking/bottling valve. Haven't started a syphon in 4 years and don't miss it!!! A sample is as easy as opening the valve for a few seconds...
 
i thought about getting a few of those, i think im just going to upgrade to conicals soon.

im racking to a keg purged with co2 and letting it set for 2-5 days as a secondary, and then force carbing and sticking it in my fridge to cool.
 
are you cold crashing?

I only cold crash when doing a lager or if I can't get to a beer that's ready for a few weeks. The only problem I've ever had with cloudiness is not enough of it in my kegged wheat beers. My beers are usually clearer than I prefer!!
 
There a couple of things that could be going on. The first thing I'd suggest is doing a conversion test to see if the conversion is complete. You should have conversion within an hour, but testing will prove it. Iodine is cheap, or use Iodophor if you can't get iodine in your drugstore.

The next thing is that you really need to boil hard, and get a hot break before adding hops or starting your timing. If you're doing a short boil, you very well may not be getting a long enough boil for this to happen. After the hot break, then you can start your timer and boil for 60 minutes.

I'd suggest a tablet of whirlfloc in the boil with 15 minutes left, and then chilling quickly to under 70 degrees to get a great cold break.

Those should really help. At this point, I'm not sure if you have a protein haze or a starch haze, but those steps will fix both.
 
So basically I just need to make sure all the starches are converted and that all the proteins are coagulated and in the trub instead of floating in my beer. I'm also gonna try Irish moss for the first time ever.

What's the benefit of chilling the beer super fast? I have an immersion chiller but it might not chill as fast as a chillzilla
 
I only cold crash when doing a lager or if I can't get to a beer that's ready for a few weeks. The only problem I've ever had with cloudiness is not enough of it in my kegged wheat beers. My beers are usually clearer than I prefer!!
Interesting. Cold crashing is the only way I've been able to eliminate chill haze. If I don't cold crash, it takes like 2 weeks in the fridge before they pour crystal-clear.
 
So basically I just need to make sure all the starches are converted and that all the proteins are coagulated and in the trub instead of floating in my beer. I'm also gonna try Irish moss for the first time ever.

What's the benefit of chilling the beer super fast? I have an immersion chiller but it might not chill as fast as a chillzilla

Chilling quickly helps to really get the cold break to form- it looks like great big fluffy goobers. I notice that I get a lot of cold break as I get close to 70 degrees in my system, and that the wort is totally clear going into the fermenter.
 
True I've seen it come out of a chillzilla crystal clear. Alrighty thanks again yooper
 
Chilling quickly helps to really get the cold break to form- it looks like great big fluffy goobers. I notice that I get a lot of cold break as I get close to 70 degrees in my system, and that the wort is totally clear going into the fermenter.
yoop, do you pre chill?
 
Ok one batch ago i had perfectly clear beer coming out of the boil kettle. and after about a week in the fridge it was perfectly clear coming out of the tap.

this current batch i did everything the same, but i didnt get any egg drop looking material, and not much of a hot break. the finished product this time was very cloudy.

did i just have my burner turned down too much as i was going to a boil? thats the only thing i can think of because my cooling process was exactly the same, and grain bill was exactly the same...
 
Ok one batch ago i had perfectly clear beer coming out of the boil kettle. and after about a week in the fridge it was perfectly clear coming out of the tap.

this current batch i did everything the same, but i didnt get any egg drop looking material, and not much of a hot break. the finished product this time was very cloudy.

did i just have my burner turned down too much as i was going to a boil? thats the only thing i can think of because my cooling process was exactly the same, and grain bill was exactly the same...

Yes, that's what it sounds like. You can turn your burner down for a boil, as long as it's still a rolling boil, but I'd suggest doing that only after the hot break.

I have my burner turned up fully, until the hot break, then I add the first hops and set the timer and go ahead and turn the burner down a bit to sustain just a rolling boil.

The only other thing I can think of is inadequate conversion- that would mean a starch haze in the finished beer.
 
When I started using a fine crush for my PB/PM BIAB beers,& took a bit longer chilling down to 64F,I started getting some tough protein haze. Even with 5 weeks at 70F for the bottles,& two weeks fridge time,their still a bit hazy. But just the PM ales from the 2nd one on. The first time I used the crush midwest did,which didn't look too complete. it came out clear. Finer crush doesn't.
So I ordered some Five Star Super Moss. I have high hopes that this'll cure the problem.
 
Yes, that's what it sounds like. You can turn your burner down for a boil, as long as it's still a rolling boil, but I'd suggest doing that only after the hot break.

I have my burner turned up fully, until the hot break, then I add the first hops and set the timer and go ahead and turn the burner down a bit to sustain just a rolling boil.

The only other thing I can think of is inadequate conversion- that would mean a starch haze in the finished beer.


thx for the reply. i got a little distracted and I mashed for 3 hours, so i know it wasnt inadequate conversion.

ill just crank my burner next time cuz i didnt have it full on. I didnt throw my hops in till it was rolling, but it started rolling very slowly and i never got a hot break that i could see.
because like i said, nothing really changed between the two brew days besides possibly the hot break. For a minute i thought i completely solved my cloudiness when i had that crystal clear beer.... hopefully next time.
 
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