Yet Another eBIAB Build

iijakii said:

Grab a couple all stainless nuts or something and toss 'em in the bag.

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That's a good idea, I might see about that.

Ugh, it should would be nice to have a brew day that goes off without a hitch. Today was the first day that I brewed with my pump, and did a recirculating mash. Well, it turns out the bag and steamer basket greatly restrict the flow from the top of the kettle to the bottom. I ended up overflowing the pot during the mash today, probably lost about 1/2 a gallon. That, with a low mash temp, led me to have a HORRIBLE mash efficiency. Boiling right now.

Make the drain holes in the steamer basket a lot larger and your problem will go away.

There is a thread about that issue on here somewhere. The brewer used a punch set to increase the drainage.

Ok.. I searched and found it. Here is the link to the post.
Please read the thread as well as there is good info in it...

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f170/electric-biab-nylon-voile-experiment-226424/index3.html#post3682185

Hope this helps.

P-J said:

Make the drain holes in the steamer basket a lot larger and your problem will go away.

There is a thread about that issue on here somewhere. The brewer used a punch set to increase the drainage.

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Thanks P-J, I had a feeling I was going to have to do that. I am just not looking forward to it, because that is going to be a lot of work.

Voltin,

How do you like your setup now that you've used it a bit? I'm thinking of building something similar. Do you find yourself using the alarm? Anything you would change? Thx

shuckit said:

Voltin,

How do you like your setup now that you've used it a bit? I'm thinking of building something similar. Do you find yourself using the alarm? Anything you would change? Thx

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I love my setup. I am still tweaking my process because I keep adding components to the system. Recently it was the whirlpool fitting and pump, and soon a water filter. I will be brewing 2-3 batches next week so I will have plenty of time to dial in that process.

If I had to change something, I would probably get a bigger stainless steel pot. I have about hit the limit of my current kettle. My next setup will also have couplers welded to my kettle, weldless fittings are a bit of a pain to get water-tight.

I was finally able to brew on my system again. I think I am finally starting to get things dialed in. For this brew I decided to up my batch size to 6G, in case I miss my numbers or I want to leave a little bit of extra wort for clarity. The only problem is that I sized my kettle for 5G batches, so I can not do full volume BIAB.

In order to overcome this oversight, I heated up the remaining water on my stove top and did a mini-sparge. This was the first time brewing when I met or exceeded all of my numbers. My pre-boil SG and OG were spot on, and I had a little bit more wort than was estimated.

The only pitfall today was that pump was working, so I wasn't able to whirlpool, and had to do a gravity chill which took a while but worked just fine. I got one more brew day tomorrow, so lets hope I can replicate the results.

EDIT: Forgot to mention that I ended up modding my steamer basket to give it that swiss cheese look. It seems to help the flow, but like I said my pump isn't working so it remains to be seen how much it helped.

Voltin (sorry, don't ever see a name),

Hope grad school is going well and that you're finding time to brew. I've cut and polished a keg my son got free from his bottleshop boss and ordered weldless ball valve and sight glass. Gonna use propane first. We just put a contract on a house; the rental we're in doesn't have a convenient way to get 220V outside (wife won't let us brew indoors).

voltin said:

The only problem is that I sized my kettle for 5G batches, so I can not do full volume BIAB.

In order to overcome this oversight, I heated up the remaining water on my stove top and did a mini-sparge.

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So, you're doing what the guys on the BIAB Forum call "Maxi-BIAB". http://biabrewer.info/viewtopic.php?f=89&t=352

If your kettle can't hold the entire volume of water, then you keep out a certain portion and mash with as much as you can for your kettle. Then you perform 1 or 2 dunk sparges. If your kettle will allow the full boil volume, you add it at the boil. If not, you add it throughout the boil as your volume decreases.

The reason I'm thinking about this is that I'm planning on purchasing a 40-44qt kettle and will likely need to do this for beers over 1.060.

voltin said:

EDIT: Forgot to mention that I ended up modding my steamer basket to give it that swiss cheese look. It seems to help the flow, but like I said my pump isn't working so it remains to be seen how much it helped.

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Todd (thughes) was the one who posted the pics of his swiss cheese basket. He has since omitted the basket from his process because it would never allow the recirculation. Not being an engineer, I'm thinking that, when raising the bag by itself as most seem to do, the tiny holes in the weave actually stretch a little allowing it to drain more quickly. When using the basket, the bag is fully supported and doesn't stretch, so the flow will always be a bit slower. Admittedly, it just looks neater and easier to use the basket.

Regarding recirculating, I'm wondering if part of the problem is that folks are trying to recirculate too quickly. Perhaps, it should be a rather slow flow.

I'm agonizing about how to put the element onto the kettle. I don't weld, and I don't know anyone who does. I don't have a drill press to use to make Kal's mount. I may just purchase one of his pre-assembled for the keg.

Gotta get ready for work,
Keith

Finally got around to brewing again, after a move, new job and school (still...) Everything went smoothly, hit all my numbers and the Swiss cheese mod to the basket definitely made an improvement in circulation. I ran the pump at full bore from the moment I turned the element on to heat the strike water until the boil started, and then again in the last 10 minutes of the boil to sanitize with no problems what so ever with it. I do think that some of my equipment, specifically the temperature probe and/or its cable got damaged in the move. I have a feeling I will have to replace them both. Got another brew slated for tomorrow, so I will update then.

Hey Voltin, awesome build. I am going to replicate your build as I slowly acquire peices to do a full 3V build similar to Kals. Last night I purchased a fiberglass enclosure a little bigger then yours off ebay for $10! Well it seems it was to good to be true as the enclosure did not include a sub-panel. Question, as the box is fiberglass is it insulated enough that I do not need to ground the ground bus to metal? Can I just ground all my components to the ground bus that is just screwed onto the fiberglass? I saw your build and you have it grounded to the sanded away metal sub-plate. Please let me know if you don't understand my question.

Chris7687 said:

Hey Voltin, awesome build. I am going to replicate your build as I slowly acquire peices to do a full 3V build similar to Kals. Last night I purchased a fiberglass enclosure a little bigger then yours off ebay for $10! Well it seems it was to good to be true as the enclosure did not include a sub-panel. Question, as the box is fiberglass is it insulated enough that I do not need to ground the ground bus to metal? Can I just ground all my components to the ground bus that is just screwed onto the fiberglass? I saw your build and you have it grounded to the sanded away metal sub-plate. Please let me know if you don't understand my question.

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Nice find on the enclosure! Most enclosures do not come with sub-panels unless it is explicitly specified, so that is to be expected. Grounding all the components to the bus bar would be fine. The major advantage to the a sub-panel is that you can mount all of your parts to something other than the case itself. So you don't have to poke any holes in the back of the enclosure, keeping it as water resistant as possible. It also makes it easy to assemble the control box, because you can work on the sub-panel and then drop it into the case and screw down. I think a sub-panel is a good investment.

Thanks for the tip. Where can I look for a customizable sub-panel? HD or Lowes? I'm not sure there is one out there already that fit's my specifications.

If anyone else is interested in the same enclosure, here is the link. The guy was nice and very fast to ship. I ordered Thursday and will have it on my door tonight.

They sell pre-made back panels for the enclosures. According to the manufacturer's website, you enclosure uses a BP1412 back panel. I didn't see any on eBay, but you could try Googling for it. You could of course make one your self. They have the dimensions for it in the enclosure data sheet (http://www.stahlin.com/web_size_img/PDF/StahlinAccessories.pdf, see pages 6 and 7.)

You will have to drill into the back panel to mount all of your accessories. They come as a solid metal plate, so you just layout your components mark them, and go to town.

I noticed there were different materials used for backplates; AL, Fiberglass, SS, and Carbon Steel. Does it matter what kind?

Mine is stainless steel. I would recommend either stainless steel or aluminum, as those will be easiest to work with.

Voltin,
I am making a build very similar to yours and had a quick question. I have an 82 qt and 44qt kettle which I plan to run both off the same control box, would it be possible to do the same with a 2.5 gallon batch size kettle, of course with a smaller element? Or will all the components of the control box be way to over powering for the smaller element? If it is fine, what size element would you recommend? I want to be able to brew more ofter and try test batches out before commiting to a 5 or 10 gallon batch.

The element will only pull as much current as it needs. You don't really have to worry about pulling too little current, just too much. I have to turn down my 5500W element to about 60% when boiling about 6.5 gallons. For a 3-4 gallon boil (for a batch size of 2.5) you could probably get away with a 2500W or similar sized element, if you can find one. You might be able to use a 4500W element, you will just have to make sure the duty cycle is turned down during boiled.

voltin said:

I have to turn down my 5500W element to about 60% when boiling about 6.5 gallons.

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Umm...this doesn't reduce the draw. It draws 100% power 60% of the time... I'm just saying.

NewBrewB said:

Umm...this doesn't reduce the draw. It draws 100% power 60% of the time... I'm just saying.

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Right, sorry I didn't make that clear. I meant that since I have to turn my 5500W element down to 60% duty cycle to maintain a boil, you can probably get away with a smaller element for 2.5G batches.

Would this element work? I am looking to run this on the same control panel I am parting together, which is a replica of yours.

Chris7687 said:

Would this element work? I am looking to run this on the same control panel I am parting together, which is a replica of yours.

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Looks good to me.

Awesome. Obviously that is on the lowest of the totum pole, but it is a plan for the future. As for the control box, the back plate FINALLY came in today. It was the biggest headache to get, only took 3.5 weeks! I am getting the interal components in two weeks and then I will be all set to start assembling come the start of the New Year. Going to do both my 82qt and 44qt kettle. Can't wait to go electric.

Voltin,

Great build, I have now looked at this several times. Just wondering, is there anything you would have done differently?

Thanks

Jps101 said:

Voltin,

Great build, I have now looked at this several times. Just wondering, is there anything you would have done differently?

Thanks

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I would definitely go with a bigger pot, the 44qt is too small for bigger beers. I would probably also go stainless instead of aluminum. I can't (or at least shouldn't) use PBW or Oxyclean on aluminum which means cleanup isn't easy and thorough as I would like. If I had used stainless then I could just recirculate PBW through the pump, valves and chiller, instead of just water. I might also consider welded fittings instead of weldless for ease of assembly and extra security, although haven't had any problems with my weldless fittings. Finally, Auber now has a braided cable of their own that I would buy instead of making my own like Kal does. I never got my cable right and I think I may have wore it out through use.

Hope that helps!

Great build, I'm going with the same setup, thanks for posting all your details!
I'd like to add a digital voltmeter and ampmeter like Kal but a bit confused if I can just add it (the voltmeter is up to 300VAC so should be no problem?) but the ampmeter is DC4.5-28V input. Do I need a transformer and adjustable power supply like Kal or can I just do a transformer for the ampmeter or?
I'd like to make sure the brightness of the LED is the same for both too, so do I do the same thing to both even though the voltmeter is rated high?
Anyone can give me a hand?

Links to voltmeter and ampmeter respectively:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/271022616522
http://www.ebay.com/itm/160944741481

Thanks.

lukez said:

Great build, I'm going with the same setup, thanks for posting all your details!
I'd like to add a digital voltmeter and ampmeter like Kal but a bit confused if I can just add it (the voltmeter is up to 300VAC so should be no problem?) but the ampmeter is DC4.5-28V input. Do I need a transformer and adjustable power supply like Kal or can I just do a transformer for the ampmeter or?
I'd like to make sure the brightness of the LED is the same for both too, so do I do the same thing to both even though the voltmeter is rated high?
Anyone can give me a hand?

Links to voltmeter and ampmeter respectively:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/271022616522
http://www.ebay.com/itm/160944741481

Thanks.

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I am certainly no expert on wiring up the voltmeter and ampmeter. But, it looks like the ampmeter is wired up in the same way as Kal's (http://www.theelectricbrewery.com/control-panel-part-2?page=9). I am not too sure about the voltmeter. There is no datasheet, or photo of the back of the device provided. It looks as if there are only two wires so it may draw its power directly for the supply it is monitoring, but based on the size of the wires shown in the picture I would doubt it. My suggestion would be to ask the seller to provide either photo of the back of the unit, or even better a datasheet in English.

lukez said:

Great build, I'm going with the same setup, thanks for posting all your details! I'd like to add a digital voltmeter and ampmeter like Kal <snip> Thanks.

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This is an honest question; hope it doesn't sound like I'm being disagreeable: what purposes do an ammeter and voltmeter serve?

1. If all your electrical components are sized appropriately for the elements, pumps, bells and whistles, and the breaker back at the box is sized appropriately, what useful information do these additional components provide?

2. In what scenarios would the voltmeter or ammeter help me or provide me with some kind of warning that something untoward might be about to happen?

Respectfully,
Keith

You are right, I'm adding them pretty much just for the "cool" factor, digital digits look good on the panel.

I guess I'll just plan on going with kal's setup for both to play it safe.

Thanks guys

kzimmer0817 said:

This is an honest question; hope it doesn't sound like I'm being disagreeable: what purposes do an ammeter and voltmeter serve?

1. If all your electrical components are sized appropriately for the elements, pumps, bells and whistles, and the breaker back at the box is sized appropriately, what useful information do these additional components provide?

2. In what scenarios would the voltmeter or ammeter help me or provide me with some kind of warning that something untoward might be about to happen?

Respectfully,
Keith

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Neither are required for proper operation. You are right if you spec all your wires right, and ensure that it is impossible to draw too much amperage (say by having multiple elements on at the same time) they are completely unnecessary. They are pretty cool though :rockin:.

Well, at least for a few people, the voltmeter revealed to them that they were on 3-phase 208v, rather than split phase 120/240v, lol.

If anyone is interested in adding these as well I found a good price for the meters on tmart.com (ships from the US too!). The greedy Chinese that are charging double on ebay wouldn't accept a lower offer for the same product.

http://www.tmart.com/3-Digital-Blue-LED-0-700V-Voltage-Panel-Table_p117971.html

voltin- I have all my parts, just need to buy the power plugs (Spa Panel to Box and Box to Element). Had a question for you though, how much do you think the pump helps maintain the mash temp? I am debating whether I really need it or not as it would save me approx $175-200. Do you think leaving the PID on at 5% will help maintain the temps with a occasional stir?

Chris7687 said:

voltin- I have all my parts, just need to buy the power plus (Spa Panel to Box and Box to Element). Had a question for you though, how much do you think the pump helps maintain the mash temp? I am debating whether I really need it or not as it would save me approx $175-200. Do you think leaving the PID on at 5% will help maintain the temps with a occasional stir?

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The pump is a huge help and makes the brew day go much smoother. But I brewed a few batches before I got the pump without problems. I wouldn't recommend setting the PID to 5% as you have the chance of overshooting. Instead just leave it at your mash temp and be sure to stir often. Good luck!

Ok, ya I was thinking of just doing the build here and leaving a spot on the box for the pump. I will go through the brew day a few times to see if it's really necessary to me. I use an immersion chiller, so I just let gravity and silicone hoses work to get my wort into the carboy. Very excited to get this build finally going.

voltin- will this mount work for the RTD sensor?

Chris7687 said:

voltin- will this mount work for the RTD sensor?

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Yes, as long as you have the matching male plug. http://www.amazon.com/dp/B0042C1QA0/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20

Can someone verify the electrical part for me? I am putting everything in my "cart" and want to make sure it is all correct before I buy it all.

From my house main panel I will be installing a 30A Two Pole Breaker from there I will be running a 10/3 wire to the spa panel which is a 50A GFCI. In the spa panel I am going to install a 30A Flush mount outlet which will plug into with this.

This is where I am a little uncertain:
With the male plug, listed above, I will run another 10/3 wire from the spa panel to the control box which is connected by a connector to a Flanged Inlet Locking Receptacle, correct? Am I missing something? Lastly, going from the control box to the kettle I will have a L6-30P Locking Plug which is plugged into Flanged Outlet Locking Receptacle which leads to the heating element on a 10/3 wire.

Please let me know if you see anything flawed here. Hoping to order everything by the end of the week.

Chris7687 said:

Can someone verify the electrical part for me? I am putting everything in my "cart" and want to make sure it is all correct before I buy it all.

From my house main panel I will be installing a 30A Two Pole Breaker from there I will be running a 10/3 wire to the spa panel which is a 50A GFCI. In the spa panel I am going to install a 30A Flush mount outlet which will plug into with this.

This is where I am a little uncertain:
With the male plug, listed above, I will run another 10/3 wire from the spa panel to the control box which is connected by a connector to a Flanged Inlet Locking Receptacle, correct? Am I missing something? Lastly, going from the control box to the kettle I will have a L6-30P Locking Plug which is plugged into Flanged Outlet Locking Receptacle which leads to the heating element on a 10/3 wire.

Please let me know if you see anything flawed here. Hoping to order everything by the end of the week.

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At first glance everything looks good. Just make sure the Nema codes line up for each plug and inlet/outlet (e.g. L14-30 in the case of the Spa panel outlet, R is for receptacle P is for plug.) Your current rating looks right. As for the breaker make sure that your panel is a Siemens panel, or is compatabilie with Siemens breakers. I believe breakers are different from manufacturer to manufacturer.

I just went through this exact process, the only thing that looks off (and maybe you just said it backwards) but the last part:

Lastly, going from the control box to the kettle I will have a L6-30P Locking Plug which is plugged into Flanged Outlet Locking Receptacle which leads to the heating element on a 10/3 wire.

Click to expand...

Depending how you mount your heat element, but lets assume you're doing it the same as this build or kal's method, the flanged outlet locking recep will be in your control panel and the plug will be coming from the element and plugging into the control panel via the flanged outlet.
Regardless the parts you showed for everything looked right and you're safe to order.
PS Check ebay for these plugs and outlets for cheaper price
PSS if you're planning to use the more flexible "cord" type wire between your spa panel and control box, you'll actually need the 10/4 cord wire not 10/3. For some reason 10/3 dryer wire includes the ground but a 10/3 cord wire does not (from my experience at home depot and lowes in canada)

Lukez - You are right, I just saidit backwards. The outlet rocking recp will be in the control panel. As far as the 10/3 vs 10/4 cord, I am not sure exactly what they all look like. I have this 4ft dryer cord I was hoping to be thrifty and reuse in the build. Where could I possibly use this?

I'll have to check ebay, as I feel $30 for some of these plugs is nuts!