Sugar wine... got any advice?

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Symbiote

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I am trying to find a way to cut costs for brewing something good to drink.

Right now there is (most of) 12 gallons of apple wine in the garage.

Brought it in for less than $2 per gallon, including the power used to heat the water. And the stuff is good. It tastes good, and it packs a serious punch.

Now I am trying to cut costs further by making sugar wine. I plan to take a 10 pound bag of sugar and split it between 2 6 gallon carboys, and inverting the sugar on the stove before adding it.

What I would like to know is what sort of yeast to order, and what sort of flavoring to use.

Will plain old Kool-Aid work? Or is it better to use fruit flavoring extracts from the bakery department?

Anyone? Bueller?... Bueller?... Bueller?
 
It's called prison hooch and threads on the topic are generally locked.
 
Ive done this but for 12 dollars,you can add lets says 20 oz can of crushed pineapples.
Which would make 1 lb 4 ozs per gallon in 2 6 gallon carboys.

Trust me the extra dollar per gallon makes it 5x better!
 
Yeah....

But some people aren't trying to play "wine connoisseur" and are more concerned with efficient methods of brewing.

True. But THIS forum is concerned with quality fermentables, although we have many cheap and easy recipes that I wouldn't consider snobbish.

A sugar wash that isn't distilled is nasty, nasty stuff. There are other forums to discuss pruno.
 
Ive done this but for 12 dollars,you can add lets says 20 oz can of crushed pineapples. Which would make 1 lb 4 ozs per gallon in 2 6 gallon carboys.

That sounds tasty. Maybe a few cans of pineapple juice concentrate?

I have a third fermenter that is clear-milky plastic with a spigot on the side, going to sanitize it today and rack the first carboy into it, then start another carboy of sugar wine. Need to pick up the sugar from Wal-Mart, going to grab a can or two of pineapple juice concentrate too. Then the plastic fermenter can sit in the outside fridge for use as a dispenser so as to avoid bottling.

I am going to try to use the lees from the first batch and just add the cooled syrup to it so as to avoid adding new yeast. Seems silly to make a starter for it when there is a perfectly good one in the bottom of the carboy.

Yooper: I know people say "ooh sugar wine is nasty, drama drama rabble rabble". And I am still going to experiment with it. Why? Because I am betting most of the naysayers are the sort who watch Fox News and CSI and work hourly jobs, and as such they are not worth listening to. So far this year I have hired and fired 8 of those sorts of people, you know what I mean?

There is an old saying - "free advice is worth what you pay for it". But when it comes from a herd beast, it is worth even less.
 
Found out something awesome... the plastic fermenter with spigot is 10 gallons.

Racked both of the carboys into it, going to make a batch of super hard lemonade in addition to the super hard pineapfelwein that is already made.

Large spigotty fermenters FTW!

Edit: Here is the apple wine, and the 2 new batches.

10-03-10_1618.jpg


10-03-10_1619.jpg
 
I've used Kool-aid type drink mix to flavor beer before, no problems. I added it just before bottling. Never used it for wine, and never made "cane wine"... sounds gross. ;)
 
sweet oscilloscope!
Cane sugar can be fine for adding to any number of wine (i've got some tomato wine going right now that's mostly sugar), but there are some complications with going for just sugar. The biggest problem is the nutrients the yeast need. Likely the cheapest way (because moonshiners do it) to get the yeast their nutrients is to malt some feed corn and mash it, then "fill it out" with sugar. After distillation this stuff is still nasty (so I hear) so I would guess it would be much worse before.
I would recommend finding some cheap (or free) source of fruit, like ground apples. Then take the juice of that, triple it with water, then bump the SG up to 1.100 with sugar, and toss in some 1118 yeast.
 
Do a search for information on Kilju, it's a Finnish sugar wine. Quite anti-establishment to brew it in Finland too from what I understand.
 
I've never heard of anyone but distillers using tomato for brewing... is it any good? Is the recipe posted somewhere?

I found it via google. I did a sloppy job at it, I was canning some tomato (not the caning type) and saved the run off water, added sugar to about 1090-1095 and used some old Lavin's 1118 i had in the fridge.
From what I read it tastes as bad as it sounds for the first year or two, but over time (and racking every 3 months for the first year) it (hopefully) becomes a nice dry white wine "with a taste you know, but would have a hard time identifying unless told"
It still has a pungent liquid pizza barf aroma... and flavor... and look. I have nearly 2 gal of this crap, I really hope it becomes something drinkable.
 
Do a search for information on Kilju, it's a Finnish sugar wine. Quite anti-establishment to brew it in Finland too from what I understand.

Looked it up, sounds about like what I am doing. Only difference is the yeast. What are the pros/cons of turbo yeast?

It still has a pungent liquid pizza barf aroma... and flavor... and look.

Oh wow. That is beautiful and gross at the same time. hahhaha

I would recommend finding some cheap (or free) source of fruit, like ground apples. Then take the juice of that, triple it with water, then bump the SG up to 1.100 with sugar, and toss in some 1118 yeast.

That sounds like the best advice in this thread yet. There is a place I am going to visit today that has a pear tree in the yard of the unoccupied house next door. If there is time, may just grab a few bags of pears.

How do you sanitize the fruit beforehand? Do you juice and boil?
 
How do you sanitize the fruit beforehand? Do you juice and boil?

Look for more thorough instructions elsewhere... but there are many ways to extract the sugars and flavors from fruit. Boiling is not the most common -- it is far more common to count on metabisulfite taking out the nasties for you.

Whatever fruit you get, look up a good recipe and follow those instructions. Wine (especially *good* wine) is somewhat intolerant of experimentation by novices, or so I've heard!

$.02 from a wine brewing noob.
 
Only difference is the yeast. What are the pros/cons of turbo yeast?

well that's distiller's yeast, so it ferments really really fast, making all kinds of crap you don't want to drink (but could easily distill out). It's really not a great choice for anything you plan on drinking any quantity of. You'd be better off with, my old fail safe, Lavins 1118. It's similar in a lot of ways, but it is a little slower (maybe a lot, i've never use turbo). It will eat a lot of sugar, and can handle up to about 18% abv before going dormant, though; I'd recommend not going above about 14%.
 
well that's distiller's yeast, so it ferments really really fast, making all kinds of crap you don't want to drink (but could easily distill out). It's really not a great choice for anything you plan on drinking any quantity of. You'd be better off with, my old fail safe, Lavins 1118. It's similar in a lot of ways, but it is a little slower (maybe a lot, i've never use turbo). It will eat a lot of sugar, and can handle up to about 18% abv before going dormant, though; I'd recommend not going above about 14%.

Read up on that yeast, might have to change up. Been using Danstar.
 
oh I thought you were the one using the turbo, danstar makes some good yeast. I've only used there ale yeast, but I suspect they have some fine wine yeasts too. If you like how it's worked for you, I wouldn't suggest changing.
 
Yooper: I know people say "ooh sugar wine is nasty, drama drama rabble rabble". And I am still going to experiment with it. Why? Because I am betting most of the naysayers are the sort who watch Fox News and CSI and work hourly jobs, and as such they are not worth listening to. So far this year I have hired and fired 8 of those sorts of people, you know what I mean?

There is an old saying - "free advice is worth what you pay for it". But when it comes from a herd beast, it is worth even less.

OOOh, big bad manager did NOT just go there... oh yes he did!

He can do whatever he wants and not listen to the advice of people who disagree with him because he's the BOSS MAN! When the BOSS MAN speaks, everyone listens! Shut up and punch your clock, maggot!

I find the irony delicious (look it up, it means "tastes good", unlike the swill you're talking about making) that you're so desperate to cut costs that you're resorting to making prison hooch, and degrading OTHER people for working hourly jobs... haha, yeah, sounds like you're flush money there Mr. BOSS MAN. Gotta save $10 a batch on high-octane... ahahaha....
 
How do you sanitize the fruit beforehand? Do you juice and boil?

Boiling will set in the pectins in the fruit essentially making a jam-like substance. Use campden tablets and cover in water until pressing, then either paseurise over a low heat or use more campden for the juice. Wait a day then add your yeast/whatever else you want. If you're using fresh juice I'd also chuck in some pectinase.
 
+1 on getting some fruit and/or juice and adding sugar to that to make something good. If you really can buy and sell us "hourly wage" folks, you can afford to spend a couple bucks and make something better than prison hooch.

Think about it... if it were as easy as dumping a ton of sugar into ten gallons of water and adding some turbo yeast to it to make something really good, why would any of us be bothering with regular wine, beer and mead? Seriously.
 
+a bunch to the Cat

Good juice makes good wine. As good as the juice is, is the upper limit to how good the wine can possibly be.

That being said, if someone wants to ferment Kool-aid(tm), that's their business, but if they come in here bragging about how they hire and fire people, well, then I'd assume they can afford a decent juice and are just plain cheap with bad taste -- because they could presumably afford better and choose to drink swill.

My 1/50th of a dollar.

(Since it's clear it matters to the person in question, I'm on a salary now, but I have been hourly in the past)
 
OOOh, big bad manager did NOT just go there... oh yes he did!

He can do whatever he wants and not listen to the advice of people who disagree with him because he's the BOSS MAN! When the BOSS MAN speaks, everyone listens! Shut up and punch your clock, maggot!

I find the irony delicious (look it up, it means "tastes good", unlike the swill you're talking about making) that you're so desperate to cut costs that you're resorting to making prison hooch, and degrading OTHER people for working hourly jobs... haha, yeah, sounds like you're flush money there Mr. BOSS MAN. Gotta save $10 a batch on high-octane... ahahaha....

Hmm. I guess my advice won't be needed. I don't work hourly OR salary actually. I only have three homes, and a large section of Northwoods acreage for recreation. I still don't have enough money to brag about how well off I am or how powerful, though. I'm also not rich enough to be an ******* to other people, either.

Oh, well. Enjoy your pruno.
 
OOOh, big bad manager did NOT just go there... oh yes he did!

He can do whatever he wants and not listen to the advice of people who disagree with him because he's the BOSS MAN! When the BOSS MAN speaks, everyone listens! Shut up and punch your clock, maggot!

I find the irony delicious (look it up, it means "tastes good", unlike the swill you're talking about making) that you're so desperate to cut costs that you're resorting to making prison hooch, and degrading OTHER people for working hourly jobs... haha, yeah, sounds like you're flush money there Mr. BOSS MAN. Gotta save $10 a batch on high-octane... ahahaha....

I figured it out. He's the day shift manager at the Huntsville McDonalds! It all adds up! Hiring and firing people. Wanting pruno to blot out the reality that is his life. It makes sense now!
 
O.k., thanks for the heads-up. 5 gallons of jam isn't quite the target.

Need to pick up some campden tablets, eBay looks to be about the best deal, around $5.50 for 100 tablets shipped.

Ebay may have the lowest prices, but forming a relationship with a local homebrew store is very conducive to your future brewing endeavors. Failing that, a good relationship with a good Internet brew store is also good... but Ebay might fit that bill, depending on who is selling and what they are actually like as a merchant. :)
 
Yooper: I know people say "ooh sugar wine is nasty, drama drama rabble rabble". And I am still going to experiment with it. Why? Because I am betting most of the naysayers are the sort who watch Fox News and CSI and work hourly jobs, and as such they are not worth listening to. So far this year I have hired and fired 8 of those sorts of people, you know what I mean?

There is a reason that most people, given the choice, choose not to ferment cane sugar unless they're distilling... and it doesn't have anything to do with politics.

A really well-made batch of this stuff will taste like watered-down everclear with notes of laboratory waste. As someone who claims to be in a position to hire and fire people, why are you concerned about making swill whose only purpose is to get a person obliterated at the absolute lowest cost possible?

You will much more satisfied by fermenting unpreserved fruit juices with a good wine yeast and bumping up the ABV with dextrose. But experiment away. On the bright side, you won't be out much money, and you can always use the stuff to strip road tar off of your front bumper.
 
I'm certainly not going to suggest you don't experiment, but if you're doing a sugar batch with just yeast and powder nutrients; don't make more that 1 gal on the first go of it. When experimenting think small, and be prepared for the worst case... do need 10 gal of watered down paint thinner for something?
 
I'm certainly not going to suggest you don't experiment, but if you're doing a sugar batch with just yeast and powder nutrients; don't make more that 1 gal on the first go of it. When experimenting think small, and be prepared for the worst case... do need 10 gal of watered down paint thinner for something?

Hoping that the last few gallons will go to vinegar, so we can use it for pickling.

Ordered some Campden tablets today, expecting them in time to get the next 2 batches properly protected.

Otherwise I am trying to find a system for producing a drink that I enjoy, at a low cost. The hard lemonade is probably going to turn out best, though the apple flavored sugar wine we are drinking now is pretty good. My wife even likes it, and she didn't like the dry apfelwein that we got from a friend earlier this year.

Building efficient systems is fun.
 
OOOh, big bad manager did NOT just go there... oh yes he did!

He can do whatever he wants and not listen to the advice of people who disagree with him because he's the BOSS MAN! When the BOSS MAN speaks, everyone listens! Shut up and punch your clock, maggot!

I find the irony delicious (look it up, it means "tastes good", unlike the swill you're talking about making) that you're so desperate to cut costs that you're resorting to making prison hooch, and degrading OTHER people for working hourly jobs... haha, yeah, sounds like you're flush money there Mr. BOSS MAN. Gotta save $10 a batch on high-octane... ahahaha....

hahaha indeed

to the op: just because you can, doesn't mean you should. but hey, do what you want. I hope you realize that homebrew of any kind isn't going to save money and the people here are about good brew. for what you have in ingredients, equipment, cleaners, time..etc. you could have gone out and bought some real high octane, although you may have to go to GA since calhoun county Alabama may not have everclear.

now I wouldn't call what you are making wine since you are not using fruit juice as a base (which is what wine is by definition). however, if you just want to make alcohol try liquor-quik...a package of that and if I remember right 20lb of sugar. found an old bottle of that while I was packing a couple months ago, used that treasure for drain cleaner. I believe that had 8 years of aging on it and if I had dumped a package of kool-aid in it I honestly don't think it would have helped.

-cheers
 
Ebay may have the lowest prices, but forming a relationship with a local homebrew store is very conducive to your future brewing endeavors. Failing that, a good relationship with a good Internet brew store is also good... but Ebay might fit that bill, depending on who is selling and what they are actually like as a merchant. :)

Why would a brew store not use eBay in addition to brick and mortar?

Good products and smiling faces are nice, but at the end of the day traffic is king.

eBay has traffic. Also the ratings system is nice, lets you know who you are dealing with.

Anyway, the closest brew store I know of is in Birmingham and gassing the truck for a trip that far is not a winning deal. Nobody ever got a big pile of money by throwing it down a hole.*

I checked out the usual suspects of online brew stores from this board and found out that the shipping kills it. The tablets were actually just over half price, but the 6.99 and 7.99 flat rate shipping is a deal-breaker for a single item.

----

* On a side note:

I once read an interview with Donald Trump. The interviewer asked Trump how much he had personally spent that day. Trump replied to the effect that he had spent less than 2 dollars on a breakfast sandwich, and that was all.

.

Edit: I did contact Brewmasters to see if they will work with me on shipping 100 Campden tablets. It will be interesting to see if they are just after bulk orders, or if they actually take care of the little guy too.
 
Is it crazy to make the sugar wine solution for airlock filler? I have been using Kettle One (its all I have). LOL Seems logical to me.
 
to the op: just because you can, doesn't mean you should. but hey, do what you want.

That's what it comes down to as far as brewing this up. You can do what you want and it's no skin off our nose.

It's the insulting of people who are trying to offer advice that sucked.
 
sweet oscilloscope!

You know it is literally so easy to model things with computers now that the oscope just sort of sits there. It is weird how electronics changed. Used to be the soldering iron stayed on the bench, these days not so much.

Cars are the same way.

I would recommend finding some cheap (or free) source of fruit, like ground apples. Then take the juice of that, triple it with water, then bump the SG up to 1.100 with sugar, and toss in some 1118 yeast.

Your idea is sound. I'm going to try it.

As I mentioned in another thread, the apple wine is pretty sweet and I am wondering if maybe the yeast stalled out due to lack of nutrients.

The next batch is going to use wild pears for the fruit, then be fleshed out with sugar. Been getting some advice about ways to sterilize raw fruit without making it into jam and it sounds good.
 
using distillers yeast is ok,I'm saying this from experience,but ec 1118 with the right amount of nutrients is a lot better,and taste better on the dry side.

I used alcotec 48 hour turbo yeast,I got it around 18-19% and dry,with 39 pounds of blackberries(picked alll by me and weighed in at dry weight minus bucket weight)
SO SO Strong

My friend in NOLA got it up to 26-27% and its was still a little sweet.
smelled like rubbing alcohol,and tasted like it
 
That's what it comes down to as far as brewing this up. You can do what you want and it's no skin off our nose.

It's the insulting of people who are trying to offer advice that sucked.

(shhh! don't you know that's James Carville?!?!?) :D:D:D
 
This seems similar to the idea of keeping carbonated water on tap and adding soda syrup to each glass...except this is gross.

The OP sounds like the typical liberal media watching lazy american who refuses to listen to any opinion that does not fit his agenda and believes this is a fairy tale world.

Seriously, get over yourself...people are offering advice on why not to do it and the entire thread consists of you ignoring all the advice except that which makes your doomed idea sound plausible
 
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