Wyeast 1762 and fusel alcohol

SSBrew - 728
Homebrew Talk - Beer, Wine, Mead, & Cider Brewing Discussion Forum

Help Support Homebrew Talk - Beer, Wine, Mead, & Cider Brewing Discussion Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.
djbradle

djbradle

Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 30, 2011
Messages
714
Reaction score
59
Location
Central MA
So I did the NB number eight kit back in late Dec.'11 when the kit used D-45 instead of soft brown sugar as they have in their kits now. I have a problem with this yeast strain throwing nasty fusel alcohols and I mean hot. I've seen from some users of this strain that anything around the low 70 ferm temp is doomed to have unmitigated fusels. I have this problem after several months of conditioning and I know it won't go away for a loooong time, if ever. I fermented this in an ambient 68 degress and the exothermic temp could have been in the lower 70's I suppose but wow what a hot bomb. If not for the fusel it would be very very nice but I am disappointed.

Anyone keep this in the lower to mid 60's and have a nice result?

I figure I might be better off culturing yeast from my Rochefort 10 sitting in storage for my next clone of it rather than try 1762 again.Whaddya think?
 
Turns out after some research the culturing may not work with high abv and long storage times.
 
Yes, culturing: the propagation of microorganisms or of living tissue cells in media conducive to their growth.

And I'm quite aware of the need for fresh yeast and alot of it at that. When you culture yeast from a bottle you build up that small population to make a viable pitching starter up to 5 step ups in most cases depending on the cell count needed for proper attenuation.
 
djbradle said:
Yes, culturing: the propagation of microorganisms or of living tissue cells in media conducive to their growth.

And I'm quite aware of the need for fresh yeast and alot of it at that. When you culture yeast from a bottle you build up that small population to make a viable pitching starter up to 5 step ups in most cases depending on the cell count needed for proper attenuation.
Click to expand...

Well, duh. I certainly know what culturing is, in general. I didn't know what you meant by the culturing, though.
 
Anyways, yes, you shouldn't propagate yeast from a high abv commercial beer, as you found out. As far as the Rochefort yeast--I recently did a tripel (1.080) with it. I did a little over a liter of starter wort, in to which I pitched 2 smack packs. I stirred that on a stir plate. I started my ferment at about 65 an slowly ramped it up over about 5 days (I have a temperature controller that does both heating and cooling) to 72-73. I didn't get any fusels. I can definitely taste a bit of ethanol (The beer is 9.1% after all...and the yeast is known for a slight ethanol flavor component.).
 
djbradle said:
I fermented this in an ambient 68 degress and the exothermic temp could have been in the lower 70's I suppose but wow what a hot bomb. If not for the fusel it would be very very nice but I am disappointed.

Anyone keep this in the lower to mid 60's and have a nice result?
Click to expand...

Per Jamil's advice in BCS, I aimed for a start of 68 and slowly ramped up to 72 over a few days for my Belgian Dark Strong. I have a small "fermentation chamber" (light bulb heater in cardboard box w/ temp controller) that I used after the first few days. I pitched the yeast at about 65, by the next morning it was at 68 and it held there for a couple days before I needed to turn on the heater.

This was in a glass carboy placed in an empty plastic tub placed in a 55 degree closet. So some insulation, but not a lot.

My point is, ff your ambient was 68 your beer was probably 75-80 degrees.
 
afr0byte and zachattack thank you for your input and experience. No doubt I must have been in the upper 70's and maybe in the 80's then. I have no good temp controller to speak of and I figure if the fermometer says 68-70 then next time I must add 10 onto that for a violent belgian yeast like 1762 and wlp575. I recently did a bsda with the wlp 575 that was started around 68 ( est. internal temp) for the first three days then ramped up to 74 or so and it came out wonderful with fruity ester and some spicy phenols. More leniency I guess.
 
I have a Belgian Brown ale (I know it's not a real style) in secondary right now. I used 1762 in it. Fermentation was 64-65. I got plum flavors from the hydrometer sample. Super delicious, I mean I am in love with the beer. One of the very best, most expressive beers I have ever made. Ferment cooler next time, make a big started and get some oxygen in there. Give that yeast everything it needs to reach the ivy league.
 
I've never had much luck making a pants dropping awesome beer with 1762, decent, but nothing like I can get from 3787.

I swear those Rochefort monks are magic or 1782 is a widely mutated from the lab propagation. I know Rochefort has some interesting procedures vs standard breweries though with regard to yeast.
 
I've never had much luck making a pants dropping awesome beer with 1762, decent, but nothing like I can get from 3787.
Click to expand...

I am not fond of 1762 either. I much prefer 3787 or 1214.

1762 can produce fusels very easily if the temps get up. Ask me how I know.

I think that learning how to ferment Belgian strains is really a big part of making good beer. There is this misconception that you can ferment them hot. You can ferment hot , but not in the first few days. I find that you need to start them low (pitch in the mid 60's) and then hold them there for a few days, then you can ramp up the temps to get them to finish low. This (for me ) gives the results that I like.
 
beergolf said:
I am not fond of 1762 either. I much prefer 3787 or 1214.

1762 can produce fusels very easily if the temps get up. Ask me how I know.

I think that learning how to ferment Belgian strains is really a big part of making good beer. There is this misconception that you can ferment them hot. You can ferment hot , but not in the first few days. I find that you need to start them low (pitch in the mid 60's) and then hold them there for a few days, then you can ramp up the temps to get them to finish low. This (for me) gives the results that I like.
Click to expand...

This is exactly how I feel about 1762 and Belgians.

I only use 1762 for low gravity Belgian Blondes or similar, otherwise it takes months for the fusels to go away.
 
All that info confirms my experience. I had no problem with WLP500, T-58, WLP575, and the 575 washed(only belgian yeasts I've used). I have to say 1762 is the problem. AmandaK, how long did the fusels's stick around in your brews w/ 1762? It's been 4 months for me now and no mellowing yet.
 
same issues here...with the number 8 and other belgian dark beers i have fermented with 1762. i recently did a tres fem clone from more beer with 1762 and fermented at 63 ambient for 5 days before raising the temps-i get fusel off the hydrometer sample at 1.011, 10 days in, but I hope it's because it's green. i just did a belgian dark ale..1.077.. with 1762, yeah, I know, glutton for punishment and I pitched at 68 ad immediately dropped it to 63 ambient when i saw activity...it;s going crazy now at ambient 63, but now i am also nervous as it appears I needed much lower ambient...hopefully not the case, but this yeast is frustrating to say the least....i may drop it to 60, but I worry on the other end about stalling out...
 
zachattack said:
Per Jamil's advice in BCS, I aimed for a start of 68 and slowly ramped up to 72 over a few days for my Belgian Dark Strong. I have a small "fermentation chamber" (light bulb heater in cardboard box w/ temp controller) that I used after the first few days. I pitched the yeast at about 65, by the next morning it was at 68 and it held there for a couple days before I needed to turn on the heater.

This was in a glass carboy placed in an empty plastic tub placed in a 55 degree closet. So some insulation, but not a lot.

My point is, ff your ambient was 68 your beer was probably 75-80 degrees.
Click to expand...

This is what I did when I made it about 18 months ago. Unfortunately I don't have good temp control so I waited until I got a good weather forecast to brew. After 3-4 months it was very drinkable. I still have a few bottles kicking around which have held up pretty nicely.
 
Crap. I should have read this thread before I began my starter today for brewing tomorrow. I'm doing a 1.100 Barleywine tomorrow. I am pitching about 30 billion more cells than what Beersmith is calling for. Could that help reduce fusels maybe? I am beginning to wish maybe I had gone with the Scottish Ale yeast instead.
 
PhelanKA7 said:
Crap. I should have read this thread before I began my starter today for brewing tomorrow. I'm doing a 1.100 Barleywine tomorrow. I am pitching about 30 billion more cells than what Beersmith is calling for. Could that help reduce fusels maybe? I am beginning to wish maybe I had gone with the Scottish Ale yeast instead.
Click to expand...


Keep the temp at the low end of the range for the first several days. 1762 will throw fusels if it gets too hot too fast. The key with this yeast is to control the temp for the early part of the fermentation. It is more sensitive to high temp too soon, than some of the other Belgian yeasts.


Cool the wort to 63-64 degrees and then keep it in the mid 60's. after 3-4 days you can ramp it up to help it finish. With a beer that big the yeastis going to want to take off and create a lot of heat.

I just did a 1.097 Belgian quad and the gravity sample tastes great.
 
And now to add insult to injury a krausen is steadily climbing its way through the blowoff so I will probably have considerably less yeast than I need for the fermentation. I think I'm gonna wait until the malarky stops and pitch the Scottish Ale yeast in a few days if it looks like things have ground to a halt...
 
You can also reserve half of your wort in the kettle. Fill the carboy with half, toss in your yeast, and when it reaches high krausen, add the remaining half of the wort. I've done this before and it works just fine. The starter and the wort become the beer that becomes the starter for the beer. It's like a hall of mirrors.
 
So as a recap, I pitched the yeast at 58F and let it warm up to 62F (These temperature readings are based on a Fermometer btw). For the first three days I used a cold wet towel and a fan to keep it between 62-64F. After 3 days I removed the towel and turned off the fan let it sit for another 4 days and it maintained itself around 66-68. Took a sample today and it successfully attenuated from 1.110 to 1.017 and there is no detectable hint of fusels.

Success!
 
PhelanKA7 said:
So as a recap, I pitched the yeast at 58F and let it warm up to 62F (These temperature readings are based on a Fermometer btw). For the first three days I used a cold wet towel and a fan to keep it between 62-64F. After 3 days I removed the towel and turned off the fan let it sit for another 4 days and it maintained itself around 66-68. Took a sample today and it successfully attenuated from 1.110 to 1.017 and there is no detectable hint of fusels.

Success!
Click to expand...


Great. Should be a good brew.
 
Glad to hear someone is having success with this strain. I have a bottle harvest going and when I went to go read some more about the yeast I found lots of unhappy brewers. What flavor profile are you getting? The rocheforts have such a rich malt bill I'm not sure what flavors are coming from the yeast. Wyeast says its fairly clean and somewhat spicy. Can anyone get more specific? Any success with a lighter grain bill?
 
I'm going to be using this for the first time this weekend - made a 1.4L starter, going to make a 1.054 oatmeal stout (split batch with an English strain) with it to step it up to make an all-malt BDSA in about a month. I'll let you know how they turn out.
 
djbradle said:
So I did the NB number eight kit back in late Dec.'11 when the kit used D-45 instead of soft brown sugar as they have in their kits now. I have a problem with this yeast strain throwing nasty fusel alcohols and I mean hot. I've seen from some users of this strain that anything around the low 70 ferm temp is doomed to have unmitigated fusels. I have this problem after several months of conditioning and I know it won't go away for a loooong time, if ever. I fermented this in an ambient 68 degress and the exothermic temp could have been in the lower 70's I suppose but wow what a hot bomb. If not for the fusel it would be very very nice but I am disappointed.

Anyone keep this in the lower to mid 60's and have a nice result?

I figure I might be better off culturing yeast from my Rochefort 10 sitting in storage for my next clone of it rather than try 1762 again.Whaddya think?
Click to expand...

I use 1762 a lot and ferment it in the 62-65 range...no problem. Harvesting from an R10 may be a a problem. They yeast may very well be stressed or dead due to the high gravity and storage.
 
Denny said:
I use 1762 a lot and ferment it in the 62-65 range...no problem. Harvesting from an R10 may be a a problem. They yeast may very well be stressed or dead due to the high gravity and storage.
Click to expand...

Yeah, if you do the risk/reward analysis on using a questionable yeast on a time and malt intensive beer like a BDSA, it really doesn't work out in the brewers favor.
 

Similar threads

rtstrider
Wyeast 2565 in Cream Ale advice?
Replies
16
Views
2K
rtstrider
rtstrider
K
Quality Kilju Recipe (Sugar Wine)
Replies
3
Views
5K
thooper41
T
P
Pressurized Fermentation for Capacity Constraints
Replies
6
Views
1K
Red over White
Red over White
C
Omega Lutra Kveik produce fusel alcohol?
Replies
3
Views
2K
DrGMG
DrGMG
MightyMosin
My yeast notes
Replies
3
Views
2K
MightyMosin
MightyMosin

Latest posts

Back
Top