RIMS for Dummies

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Last November, I was looking to build my very first brewing system, and stumbled upon this thread (which has been an amazing resource, by the way...) and decided to build a RIMS using the original plans and specs. The system has been flawless; no leaks, holding temps, fast step-times, and great efficiency. I've brewed a couple of ales, a helles, Ed Wort's IPA, a Dortmunder, an Alt, and a few others.

After my first brew, I started to notice a slight off-taste in my system, and was concerned that my water was too chlorinated, or perhaps I was over-sparging and my phenols were out of whack. Eventually, after trying spring water, "hyper-cleaning" everything, and still having off-tastes, I removed my 110v 1500w ld heating element, and discovered a caramelized, burnt mess on the element.

Reading through this thread, I've only noticed one or two others who have had this happen. I'm open to any thoughts, questions, suggestions to figure this out.

A few factoids; I am using a 2" pipe system, auber instruments 60mm RTD, 2352 PID, 25 amp SSR (with heat sink), and a control box built under the guidance of my stepfather, who is a master electrician. Each control (master, PID, element, and pump) are all on individual circuits. And yes; although the element is not connected to the pump switch on the hot end (to ensure that the element doesn't run "dry"), I have never accidentally fired the heater when dry.

I posted pics of my system after my build and first brew. Here's a link for pics:
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f36/thank-you-all-making-my-first-ag-brew-day-success-212499/

I'm going to try a 4500w ld element at 110 to see if that helps. Any ideas? Maybe I just had a bad element? (I did auto tune the PID, temps were spot on, checked against a thermometer placed in the mash. It never "spiked" or ran hot.)

Thanks for taking the time to help me out with this.
 
I always take my element out after each brew and clean it off. I scorched a batch once and will never make that mistake again.
 
Interesting thought, weirdboy. I don't recall doing so, but you're right; one moment or two of stopping the flow from the march pump into the RIMS chamber would do it. That's a definite possibility.

I'm wondering, though, if the RTD would have picked up the sudden increase in heat and shut off the element if that happened?
 
If you are using a standard water heater element they are coated with a zinc plating to protect the element when in a water heater. It doesn't help the element when brewing. I simply rubbed it off with a scrubby until I got to bare copper. I wonder if the zinc is causing an off taste. Then again it could be anything and not related to the RIMS at all.
 
Elements are pretty cheap. I'd buy a SS Incoloy type element and try that. I've not experienced the issue you describe. My element is on a tri clover fitting so I can remove it after use and clean if needed beyond the Oxyclean recirculation that I do. Usually all I am wiping off is some white residue which I assume is Oxyclean.
 
i don't have a RIMS, heck, right now i don't have a real brew structure but am converting 3 kegs and trying to decide what kind of structure/system i want to build. reading everying i can until that happens, although that seems to be confusing me more. Anyway, what about some type of flow senser? being familiar with cooling systems that use flow sensers to detect lack of flow to shut down the system or at least give an alarm when the flow rate is below a set point. Would this type of senser help with the worry of burning up an element? Not even sure one is availible or cheap enough to use but its something to think about.
 
Honestly, burning up the element, especially while brewing, is extremely unlikely to happen. And if you have a LWD element, you don't have to worry about burning it up due to a dry fire. I've had mine glowing yellow and it still works just fine.
 
Hey Sawdustguy, thanks for the reply... interesting comment regarding the zinc coating. The "caramelized funky mess" that was once my heating element no longer has the zinc coating on it. You might be on to something there. Any thoughts about what might have caused the scorching in the first place?
 
Hey samc, I can "unscrew" mine from the RIMS, and after this series of events, I'll take your advice and disassemble it after each brew and clean it. Thanks.

Still looking for the cause... anybody else have the scorching issue?
 
That's what confuses me, klyph... my 1500w ld 110v element caramelized up like a marshmallow on the end of a 10 year old's twig at the family campfire... I'm puzzled as to why this happened...
 
That's what confuses me, klyph... my 1500w ld 110v element caramelized up like a marshmallow on the end of a 10 year old's twig at the family campfire... I'm puzzled as to why this happened...

I have the same set-up, except a 1 1/2 tube. I've never had any problems. IMO, the only thing that could possibly cause scorching and/or carmelization of the wort on the element would be the wort remaining in the tube long enough to be cooked. Since you say your PID is functioning properly, that leaves the flow through the tube. You didn't mention your flow rate. Are you able to pump a pretty good volume through the tube? Are you bumping your PID temperature up for mash out?
 
My flow rate is great... no air in the lines, very strong flow... I'm wondering though, how "fast" do you recirculate your wort? I actually "throttle back" on the march pump to allow for a nice slow "blurbble" of wort back into my mashtun.
 
My flow rate is great... no air in the lines, very strong flow... I'm wondering though, how "fast" do you recirculate your wort? I actually "throttle back" on the march pump to allow for a nice slow "blurbble" of wort back into my mashtun.

I pump as fast as the mashtun drains back to the BK. With a falsebottom and a bottom drain, that's pretty fast. I pump from the BK, as a grant, back to the mashtun. I match the flow by adjusting the pump. Usually, it's a pretty good clip, a pretty good stream that has to be directed at the side of the tun, or it disturbs the grain bed.
 
...and yes, I tend to bump up to 168 for mash out, then sparge at around 170.

I don't sparge, so I mash with total pre-boil volume and recycle during the entire mash, them I'm done. I would think that a thicker-mashed wort might have more tendency to stick to the element, especially at a lower flow. That might be the difference.
 
I pump as fast as the mashtun drains back to the BK. With a falsebottom and a bottom drain, that's pretty fast. I pump from the BK, as a grant, back to the mashtun. I match the flow by adjusting the pump. Usually, it's a pretty good clip, a pretty good stream that has to be directed at the side of the tun, or it disturbs the grain bed.

I use a cpvc manifold on the bottom of my igloo cooler mashtun, through the march pump, through the RIMS tube, and back into the top of the cooler. The wort then travels down some hose to an "upturned" recirculating "X" made of cpvc and upturned elbows, allowing the wort to flow "up and out" back onto the bed. Maybe I'll try increasing the flow rate, now that I have a brand spankin' new element from Lowes. (a 4500 ld that I'll run at 110v. I fits in my RIMS with about an inch to spare between it and the RTD.)

Any other thoughts?
 
That's a good point; flow rate and thick mash could be an issue. I'm just surprised that nobody else is experiencing my dilemma.

I'll bump up my flow rate on my next batch, and disassemble my RIMS afterwards and check for scorching. Do you see any risks in increasing my flow rate? (other than a stuck mash...)
 
I use a cpvc manifold on the bottom of my igloo cooler mashtun, through the march pump, through the RIMS tube, and back into the top of the cooler. The wort then travels down some hose to an "upturned" recirculating "X" made of cpvc and upturned elbows, allowing the wort to flow "up and out" back onto the bed. Maybe I'll try increasing the flow rate, now that I have a brand spankin' new element from Lowes. (a 4500 ld that I'll run at 110v. I fits in my RIMS with about an inch to spare between it and the RTD.)

Any other thoughts?

Just the difference in thickness of mash. Probably shouldn't be an issue though with a good flow. Good luck.
 
Thanks... BTW, I'm still new to brewing; how is your efficiency with the "no sparge" method? I know this is a little off topic, but are you just mashing out and then going straight to the BK? Sounds like a real time saver...
 
Are you sure that the RIMS tube isn't trapping an air bubble allowing the wort to scorch the element? I noticed a remarkably smoother flow after placing both my in and out facing up to allow the RIMS tube to fill completely.
 
Thanks... BTW, I'm still new to brewing; how is your efficiency with the "no sparge" method? I know this is a little off topic, but are you just mashing out and then going straight to the BK? Sounds like a real time saver...

I'm now getting around 67-68% brewhouse efficiency. I'm saving some time omitting the sparge, but the real saver is being able to start the boil while my 1st and only runnings are draining into the BK. And it only requires 2 vessels
 
(I promise to get back "on thread" after this...)

Just for clarity; (as an example) if you are doing a simple pale ale; would you dough in, bring your system up to temp, say 153, recirculate for an hour, bump up to 168 to mash out for 10, then transfer? I really want to try this... Sounds promising...
 
Good point. I'm going to give that a try. How long does it take to transfer your "first and only runnings" to the BK? (assuming you're doing 5 gal batches.)

Probably on the order of 5 minutes or so. There is already some wort in the BK so I start heating that while the rest is draining.

(I promise to get back "on thread" after this...)

Just for clarity; (as an example) if you are doing a simple pale ale; would you dough in, bring your system up to temp, say 153, recirculate for an hour, bump up to 168 to mash out for 10, then transfer? I really want to try this... Sounds promising...

Yep, I heat strike water with a burner and dough-in, set the RIMS for the mash temperature and sit back and watch the pretty lights. I usually don't bother with a mash-out. When I have done it, I used the burner to increase temp., because it takes too long with a 110vac element. It would probably increase my efficiency some, but I don't see the need. I just add an extra pound of grain to make up for reduced efficiency. Recirculate/mash for 1 hour, drain, and boil. It's pretty stress-free.

Here's a great thread on the process.https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f36/i-love-no-sparge-brewing-140972/
 
Outstanding. If you're getting decent efficiency, saving all of that time, and going straight to the boil from the mashtun, I'm in.

Of course, I'll tell my SWMBO that it's "brewing as usual," which will give me an extra hour of hanging with my brew pals and drinking an extra homebrew or two.

(Is that wrong?)

Thanks for the help...
 
i guess this might be a silly question, remember I don't have a RIMS and I don't use a pump. How do you regulate the flow of the pump? I haven't seen a the components for adjusting "voltage" other then on and off so are you just closing the valve on the output of the pump to adjust the flow? If thats the case, is that a strain on the pump and or does that cause "turbulence" which could be adding air bubbles?
 
For you people concerned about the flow rate, what about using a Blichmann Autosparge? You can open your valves up 100% and let the autosparge adjust the flow accordingly? What do you guys think about this? I have purchased the Autosparge but have not used it yet or installed it. I purchased it before I decided to build a RIMS tube, so now that I am building one I wonder how well it will work on my RIMS system.

I thought the autosparge was a good idea but I am also in the process of building a system with a RIMS tube. I have used this thread a lot to get information but I went with a RIMS tube from Brewers Hardware, I am still waiting for it to ship. Anyway, regarding the heating element, does anyone know of a website that sells stainless steel elements?

Also, it would be great if we could discuss and hammer out what exactly is the best type of heating element to purchase for a RIMS tube? You could have one for a 110v system and a 240v system. If you read all 64 pages of this thread there are so many different types of heating elements that people used but no one really follows up to tell how well it worked or not. Only when you have a problem does the topic come back up again. If we could nail down the "perfect" heating element for the sake of this thread it would help a lot of people who want to build a new system. Like i said, i am waiting on my RIMS tube so I have still yet to purchase a heating element.

I don’t know if I missed it or not but the author of this thread did not mention in the beginning that he scrubbed the zinc off his heating element. I found that interesting.
 
Anyway, regarding the heating element, does anyone know of a website that sells stainless steel elements?

See the #1 post in this thread. Plumbers Supply has SS elements. Also, elements made of Incoloy are Stainless Steel. They are sold at Lowes.
 
For you people concerned about the flow rate, what about using a Blichmann Autosparge? You can open your valves up 100% and let the autosparge adjust the flow accordingly? What do you guys think about this? I have purchased the Autosparge but have not used it yet or installed it. I purchased it before I decided to build a RIMS tube, so now that I am building one I wonder how well it will work on my RIMS system.

I have one and I control the flow there if I need to. So far (2-3 brews) I have not needed to worry too much about the flow, run it a WFO (wide fricken open). I do however control the flow when I fly sparge- but there I am controlling at both the inlet for the autosparge and the outlet of the MLT (kind of defeats the purpose, but nice to have a checkpoint with the autosparge if I get distracted when I am sparging).

Here is video of my rig:

I have since added another pump and did a bit of "reorg" with the pumps and such...added SS camlocks on everything as well. I am thinking my last little bit of change will be to add an inlet setup on the brew kettle as so I don't have to flop a hose in there...make it a bit more clean.

Hope the video helps a bit...new video forthcoming here in a week or two.
 
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nice video, as i don't have a pump as of yet and have never looked into the auto-sparge I found this to be a good info video. I still want to know how to utilize a pump in the system. I don't have a real structure as of yet BUT want one real bad... :) As of right now I am leaning to a single tier, to save my back for years to come....
 
I have one and I control the flow there if I need to. So far (2-3 brews) I have not needed to worry too much about the flow, run it a WFO (wide fricken open). I do however control the flow when I fly sparge- but there I am controlling at both the inlet for the autosparge and the outlet of the MLT (kind of defeats the purpose, but nice to have a checkpoint with the autosparge if I get distracted when I am sparging).

Here is video of my rig: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Bqw1x4vXDM

I have since added another pump and did a bit of "reorg" with the pumps and such...added SS camlocks on everything as well. I am thinking my last little bit of change will be to add an inlet setup on the brew kettle as so I don't have to flop a hose in there...make it a bit more clean.

Hope the video helps a bit...new video forthcoming here in a week or two.

You were using foil to protect the heat from what?
 
Hey trying to figure out on my element where hot & neutral go. Are they interchangeable?
2zod5k8.jpg


Is it possible to use a chord like this wired to the element, then plugged into a receptacle in my control box?
xkr4ew.jpg

How would I wire the green wire (ground)? Thanks f
 
There should be a grounding post near the + and - terminals but I can't see one from the pic.
The two wires can be swopped around (I had the same concern when I wired my element).
 
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