Fly vs batch sparge

I just bottled my first all grain beer ever and at the urging of my home brew supply shop I used a batch sparge instead of the traditional fly sparge. The result was a very low original gravity and a very light pale ale. Has anyone had success with batch sparging? Any tips for a newbee?

Welcome. Tons of people on this thread batch sparge with great success, myself included. Can you briefly describe your equipment & process? Perhaps we can help troubleshoot.

One tip is to double batch sparge (just like single sparge, but divide the water in half and do it twice). Most get 5-10% efficiency bump.

When brewing on my gear, I batch sparge exclusively to good success - though I've fly sparged on friends' rigs to slightly better efficiency.

Can you describe your process? Maybe we can spot room for improvement...

In brief, here's mine:
- mash 60 minutes, usually between 152 and 158, depending on what kind of beer I'm shooting for, and almost always at 1.25 qts water per pound grain
- prepare sparge water
- lauter the mash tun, then add half the sparge water to the grain bed
- mix,wait 15 minutes, lauter, then add the rest of the sparge water
- mix, wait 15 minutes, lauter, then start boiling

I think the key is to stir like crazy during the sparge. I have done 2 all grains so far and hit 72% efficiency on both using the batch sparge method. One was a 1.085 IIPA and I was only a few points short of hitting my target OG. I probably would have hit it if I heated my sparge water more. I now use 195° water when I sparge. That usually brings the grain bed up to around 170°.

stratslinger said:

When brewing on my gear, I batch sparge exclusively to good success - though I've fly sparged on friends' rigs to slightly better efficiency.

Can you describe your process? Maybe we can spot room for improvement...

In brief, here's mine:
- mash 60 minutes, usually between 152 and 158, depending on what kind of beer I'm shooting for, and almost always at 1.25 qts water per pound grain
- prepare sparge water
- lauter the mash tun, then add half the sparge water to the grain bed
- mix,wait 15 minutes, lauter, then add the rest of the sparge water
- mix, wait 15 minutes, lauter, then start boiling

Click to expand...

+1, Sounds exactly like what I do. I'm now struggling and trying to figure out the boiloff rate. I screwed a belgian trippel the other night by oversparging

Sounds like a recipe issue to me. Not enough alcohol, add more base malt. Not enough color, add more higher kilned malts. Another issue might be you mash temps, usually lower temps around 148 or so will give you higher fermintability (dryer beer) and higher temps around 158 will give you less fermintability (sweeter beer). There's a lot more to it than that though, you might want to pick up a book like John Palmer's How to Brew or listen to the Brewing Networks Brewcast on going all grain. You basically just need to learn your system, everyone is a little different. Once you get one recipe down should be able to apply those changes to future brews.

I use a cooler MLT... I don't exactly "Fly sparge" (I hate that term), but it is closer to my reality. At the end of my mash (usually 30-45 minutes depending on the beer), I do a vorlauf that usually takes 5-10 minutes to get a clear run off. I then let the wort begin draining into my kettle. Once run off has started, I begin to add my sparge water. I pour it over a large, wooden spoon to spread it out and not disturb the top of the grain bed, but do it quickly. Takes about 10 minutes to get all the sparge water in. Instead of an inch or two of water over the grain bed for the entire runoff, there are several inches. The insulation of the cooler and the thermal mass keep the temp up over my one hour run off. Works great, easy and I get consistent 80% efficiency. I have used this method in 4 commercial breweries as well with great results.

I doubt the reason for your lower than expected efficiency is the fact that you did a batch sparge instead of a fly sparge. When you get a low efficiency, the culprit in my opinion is almost always an inadequate crush. I think a lot of people get a low efficiency and immediately think they need to start this multirest multiple decoction fly sparge routine when the problem could easily be solved by a finer crush. I have a simple cooler mash system, I batch sparge, and I typically get close to 80% efficiency, because I have my own mill and I crush 'til I'm scared. When fly sparging I get a couple percentage points better and that's not worth it to me.

It would be helpful to know your setup/process/recipe though.

I just upgraded my setup. I use a single tier single pump system now. I didn't hit the target temp for sparge. I hit about 70% efficiency which is way better than before. I bet any money if I hit the sparge temp next time and split up the sparge, like the others have said, that I will be 80% or more.

biestie said:

I doubt the reason for your lower than expected efficiency is the fact that you did a batch sparge instead of a fly sparge. When you get a low efficiency, the culprit in my opinion is almost always an inadequate crush. I think a lot of people get a low efficiency and immediately think they need to start this multirest multiple decoction fly sparge routine when the problem could easily be solved by a finer crush. I have a simple cooler mash system, I batch sparge, and I typically get close to 80% efficiency, because I have my own mill and I crush 'til I'm scared. When fly sparging I get a couple percentage points better and that's not worth it to me.

It would be helpful to know your setup/process/recipe though.

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haha, i know *exactly* what you mean as an avid fly sparger, just keep this simple thought in mind--if you crush too fine and you get a stuck sparge, simply stir and batch sparge! ta-da! no more brew-day pressure!

low efficiency for home brewers is one of two things: channeling, or not rinsing the grain well enough.... or three! three things! simply not waiting long enough for the conversion.

but when the rubber hits the tire, a fine crush that looks like rough corn meal + husks and a patient sparge are your friends. 90% efficiency or 50% efficient isn't going to make a better beer, as long as you know what *your* efficiency is.

I just went up over 10% efficiency just by adding 15 more minutes to my mash. Stirring has gotten my up almost 10% as well. Just find what works for your system but don't be afraid to try a new approach if you have some idea of how it can improve your process...I have the most basic setup imaginable and yet I hit 76% yesterday, overshooting my expected!

I double batch sparge and get 90% efficiency.

bribo179 said:

I double batch sparge and get 90% efficiency.

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Routinely?

Last 5 batches

I sparge at 170 & 175

bribo179 said:

I sparge at 170 & 175

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me too, someone posted they use 195 deg water, I have never tired it that high before, is there anything to using hotter water?

Gear101 said:

me too, someone posted they use 195 deg water, I have never tired it that high before, is there anything to using hotter water?

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I double batch sparge and routinely get efficiency in the low 80% range. My first sparge is usually between 195 and 205 depending on mash temp. This gets the grain bed up to 170. I equate it to doing a mashout at the same time as my sparge...for the second batch...I add cold water back to the hlt to bring the temp back down to 170.

I am of the belief that high efficiency isn't nearly as important as consistent efficiency. I plan my standard gravity beers around an assumed efficiency of 80% and high gravity beers between 65 and 70 depending on the size of the grain bill.

It will take a couple of batches to dial in your boil off and system deadspace

Yeah, it's hard to imagine there's a brewer out there who got over 70% efficiency on their very first all grain batch. You have to know what you're doing with your crush, your mash, and your sparge. It's hard to know what you're doing without first participating in this very conversation, and it's hard to do that without first brewing and getting a poor efficiency that makes you scratch your head and wonder "Why did I get such a poor efficiency?" It's a process.

I was getting mixed efficiency results from using crushed grains from different LHBS. I even think that some of their scales are not correct. Once i started buying bulk and doing my own crush is when i really dialed in my process. 80% consistently batch sparing.

stratslinger said:

When brewing on my gear, I batch sparge exclusively to good success - though I've fly sparged on friends' rigs to slightly better efficiency.

Can you describe your process? Maybe we can spot room for improvement...

In brief, here's mine:
- mash 60 minutes, usually between 152 and 158, depending on what kind of beer I'm shooting for, and almost always at 1.25 qts water per pound grain
- prepare sparge water
- lauter the mash tun, then add half the sparge water to the grain bed
- mix,wait 15 minutes, lauter, then add the rest of the sparge water
- mix, wait 15 minutes, lauter, then start boiling

Click to expand...

- lauter the mash tun, then add half the sparge water to the grain bed
***Lauter as in empty the mash tun, placing the wort into the brew pot before adding ~ half the sparge water?

I'm just getting into home brewing and my first two brews (AG) were sparged slightly different from each other. If nothing else, I'm just tweaking my process to maximize efficiency


Thanks,
JG

We did a 3-part batch sparge this weekend on a 10-gallon batch of Honey Wheat. Here's what we did:

Vorlauf 3 pitchers full of wort back into mash tun (or until wort runs w/o chunks, etc).
Lauter the wort from mash tun into BK.
Add 1/3 of the sparge water, stir well, vorlauf, lauter.
Repeat until sparge water gone and all wort in BK.

jgroesbeck said:

- lauter the mash tun, then add half the sparge water to the grain bed
***Lauter as in empty the mash tun, placing the wort into the brew pot before adding ~ half the sparge water?

I'm just getting into home brewing and my first two brews (AG) were sparged slightly different from each other. If nothing else, I'm just tweaking my process to maximize efficiency


Thanks,
JG

Click to expand...

Yes empty the mash tun.

just a quick question on batch sparging. Some people say lauter after your 1 hour mash then add sparge water (1/2 of it) stir, wait 5-15 minutes than lauter and repeat. others say add the sparge water (1/2), stir and lauter right away without waiting (and without stiring) - is one way more efficient than another?

ninkasi2012 said:

just a quick question on batch sparging. Some people say lauter after your 1 hour mash then add sparge water (1/2 of it) stir, wait 5-15 minutes than lauter and repeat. others say add the sparge water (1/2), stir and lauter right away without waiting (and without stiring) - is one way more efficient than another?

Click to expand...

Why wait? Agitate the mash- releasing the sugars , repeat, and boil.

mux said:

Why wait? Agitate the mash- releasing the sugars , repeat, and boil.

Click to expand...

This. Don't wait, just stir and drain.

I see several people have trouble with boil-off rates. Put 7 gallons of H20 in your BK and boil it. Start timer.

I live in the dry desert at 5000 ft, and I'm consistently at 20% per hour loss. I calibrated a spoon to work as a "hot dip stick" that is like a auto trans. fluid stick, only accurate when wort is HOT (and not at rolling boil). Did this with H20 and now I can check volume whenever I need it, no sight glass to clean.

Sparge: I had low efficiencies until I started raising Mash-out to over 160°F (less than 170°F) before lautering. I learned the double method reading this thread (THANK YOU!), but get 72% eff by doing single batch stirring it up, then resting for 15 minutes before V-L.

If you sparge too much, you can boil longer BEFORE adding hops.
If you sparge too little, treat it like Extract. Add water to boil, or to fermenter.

Finally, 1 lb crushed dry grain absorbs approx .5qt of water that won't lauter out so add .5 lbs to strike water, but don't add extra for sparge as your grain is already wet.

My MLT also takes about 2 qts to fill up to false bottom, so I toss that in as extra in Mash-in which I can't get out lautering. What about your system, if you don't know, try it with just water and measure the remaining volume.

-Mac

some brewers believe in a double sparge and others shoot for two equal volumes for the 1st and 2nd runnings. I have done it both ways and have gotten the same efficiency doing it both ways. So now I just save time and just go with making my mash in runnings and my single sparge runnings the same volume. I think the key here is to get a good crush, and get all of the wort out by tilting the cooler up. If you leave a qt behind in the cooler thats quite a bit of sugar the yeast never gets to turn to alcohol, and that could be a point or two of gravity left in the cooler. Your efficiency will vary depending on the size of your grain bill. A recipe with a SG of 1.080 is going to have lower efficiency than a 1.050 beer, and you will need to account for that from experience with your system.