Brew In A Bag RIMS system

I deleted my old thread because frankly I got bored of it.

I love the brew in a bag technique but I hate the temp control of the mash. I was going to brew a Brutus 10 clone but wanted more flexibility and didn't wan't to abandon the simplicity of the BIAB. I don't know if anyone has built a Recirculating BIAB system yet; regardless, here is my attempt.

I will also be able to do two five gallon batches or one 10 gallon batch depending on how I route the flow. See attached pics for concept and build.

Comments and critiques appreciated.

Figure 8 flow for 10 gallon batch. Grains split between brew pots


Individual flow for two seperate 5 gallon batches


Google sketchup design...Solidworks license expired


Stainless frame - still need burners, t-couples, solenoids, PID, and pumps.

I have an indoor stovetop system that started out as a brew-in-a-bag but has gradually evolved beyond recognition. Like yours, it's a direct-fire RIMS. The whole thing operates off of a single vessel so I use the nylon bag to help with clean-up, but considering that I sparge, recirculate, and have a false bottom it's tough to properly call it a BIAB anymore.

In any case, this looks nice. I like the rotating nozzle idea in particular. Are you going to use electronically controlled flow meters, or just eyeball the numbers?

MalFet said:

I have an indoor stovetop system that started out as a brew-in-a-bag but has gradually evolved beyond recognition. Like yours, it's a direct-fire RIMS. The whole thing operates off of a single vessel so I use the nylon bag to help with clean-up, but considering that I sparge, recirculate, and have a false bottom it's tough to properly call it a BIAB anymore.

In any case, this looks nice. I like the rotating nozzle idea in particular. Are you going to use electronically controlled flow meters, or just eyeball the numbers?

Click to expand...

I plan to use Rotometer type flow meters. I'm worried that if I eyeball it then one pot will have a thinner mash than the other. I think the first couple runs I'll just make a single 5 Gallon batch and not the 10 Gallon option.

I used to use a mash tun and do the single infusion mash but BIAB is by far the cleanest, simplest, and fastest method for all grain....and my recipes are as good as if not better than the single infusion mash. Hopefully the recirculation will clear up some of the wort but the end product has been as bright as ever.

Thanks for your feedback.

McTarnamins said:

I plan to use Rotometer type flow meters. I'm worried that if I eyeball it then one pot will have a thinner mash than the other. I think the first couple runs I'll just make a single 5 Gallon batch and not the 10 Gallon option.

I used to use a mash tun and do the single infusion mash but BIAB is by far the cleanest, simplest, and fastest method for all grain....and my recipes are as good as if not better than the single infusion mash. Hopefully the recirculation will clear up some of the wort but the end product has been as bright as ever.

Thanks for your feedback.

Click to expand...

Are you manually adjusting flow, or somehow attaching the rotameter to a logic circuit? Do you plan to sparge at all? I get very bright wort from my setup, but I think part of that is from draining the wort off into a bucket.

MalFet said:

Are you manually adjusting flow, or somehow attaching the rotameter to a logic circuit? Do you plan to sparge at all? I get very bright wort from my setup, but I think part of that is from draining the wort off into a bucket.

Click to expand...

I will adjust the flow with ball valves on the output of the pumps; the rotometer will only indicate that the gallons-per-minute of the two pumps are the same so I have steady state conditions. I will not sparge but just recirculate, something my current brew in a bag system does not have. Even though my efficiencies are good I have very poor temperature control now. This is why I have the PID controlled direct fire burners on my new BIAB10 system.

I let the bag of wet grain drain into a bucket after I pull out the bag but I do not sparge the grain any further, this is something I should consider; good idea thx.

Cheers,

My BIAB only brew rig is coming together. Attached are a couple pics of the rig and a test run of the burner. The solenoids, March 809, and flow meters will be here next week. The pot in the middle will be for dunk sparging and will be ported and have a false bottom for recirculating for a couple minutes before it's pumped up to the brew kettle. It will also have a dedicated burner that is not temp controlled.

Maybe I don't quite get how the direct fired Brutus 10 works, but how does the solenoid create the spark to ignite the burner?

I like the setup though, it makes a lot of sense to me to recirculate a BIAB. Although I probably wouldn't use a false bottom as well because I'm cheap.

Maybe for the pumps you could go with something peristaltic? I know I've seen some dual headed pumps on ebay and even in the classified section here at one point. That would give you a matched flow rate with now guesswork.

Pumps are mounted and gas is getting plummed on the automated BIAB system. Couple more weeks now. Wiring will be the hard part for me.

Those wouldn't happen to be LG 3-MD-HC pumps would they? I love mine!

wyzazz said:

Those wouldn't happen to be LG 3-MD-HC pumps would they? I love mine!

Click to expand...

They are March 809 PL-HS-C - 115V High Temperature Pump
I got them for a great deal from this guy on ebay.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=280649265649&ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT

wyzazz said:

Those wouldn't happen to be LG 3-MD-HC pumps would they? I love mine!

Click to expand...

They are March 809 PL-HS-C - 115V High Temperature Pump
I got them for a great deal from this guy on ebay.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=280649265649&ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT

Quick disconnects and tubing added to my BIAB recirculating rig. Now I just need to wire the temperature controllers.

I'm trying to have as clean and simple design as possible. I love the simplicity of BIAB. I've done 10+ batches of BIAB and have had great results. Not going back, especially with the 3 hour brew days.

Cheers all,

My Brew in a Bag recirculating brew stand took it's maiden voyage today. Everything went well and the recirculating wort converted the starches in about 15 minutes less time than before. The wort was much clearer thanks to the recirculation.

Next step is to hook up the thermocouple and temperature controller so I don't have to keep manually turning on/off the burner.

Here are a couple brew day pics. I brewed an American Amber.

I got my pumps from the same people. They were very nice to deal with and fast.

Interesting, more and more BIAB systems popping up. How do you find your efficiency?

I know I'd love to keep the functionality of my Brutus 10 Clone, and decrease the footprint substantially.

Nice setup!

I have a question on the brew pots you use: I see they are Bayou pots. Are they the 44 qt ones ?
Was it the one with the spigot already, or did you make a hole yourself ?
Also, did you get the basket from Bayou as well ?

Thx

mperceau said:

Nice setup!

I have a question on the brew pots you use: I see they are Bayou pots. Are they the 44 qt ones ?
Was it the one with the spigot already, or did you make a hole yourself ?
Also, did you get the basket from Bayou as well ?

Thx

Click to expand...

The pots are the 44 qt ones and they have the basket inside. The basket is great for keeping the bag off the bottom and gives me room for the bulkhead at the bottom. I drilled the hole and bought the bulkhead fitting from bargainfitting.com. I've sent them a lot of cash for this build.

I'm now working on wiring the temperature controller and solenoid valve. I'll try my best to have something like The Electric Brewery for a control pannel but we'll see what actually comes out.

McTarnamins said:

The pots are the 44 qt ones and they have the basket inside. The basket is great for keeping the bag off the bottom and gives me room for the bulkhead at the bottom. I drilled the hole and bought the bulkhead fitting from bargainfitting.com. I've sent them a lot of cash for this build.

I'm now working on wiring the temperature controller and solenoid valve. I'll try my best to have something like The Electric Brewery for a control pannel but we'll see what actually comes out.

Click to expand...

Thank you for the information. I am about to get a new pot and burner to start brewing all grain, and BIAB looks like the best solution for me. I will start without recirculating, but will eventually upgrade when the time is right. Your setup is definitely a good goal to reach, one day!

I currently have an electric BIAB setup and am interested in the possibility of doing a recirc system like yours. I could adapt your setup almost exactly as you have it. However, I do have some questions, if you don't mind.

1. I've never worked with march pumps or quick disconnects, so I'm not sure what all I need to make it all work. Do you happen to have a parts list available all of the recirc stuff on your rigs (ie ball valves, quick disconnects, elbows, etc)?

2. What's the reason of using the T coming out of the kettle, is it just for the angle coming out of the kettle so your tubing doesn't kink?

3. Any particular reason for using a 3 piece ball valve instead of a 2 piece coming out of your pump?

4. Do you recirc throughout the entire mash? If so, do you find it fairly easy to main pretty consistent temps throughout the mash?

HossTheGreat said:

I currently have an electric BIAB setup and am interested in the possibility of doing a recirc system like yours. I could adapt your setup almost exactly as you have it. However, I do have some questions, if you don't mind.

1. I've never worked with march pumps or quick disconnects, so I'm not sure what all I need to make it all work. Do you happen to have a parts list available all of the recirc stuff on your rigs (ie ball valves, quick disconnects, elbows, etc)?

2. What's the reason of using the T coming out of the kettle, is it just for the angle coming out of the kettle so your tubing doesn't kink?

3. Any particular reason for using a 3 piece ball valve instead of a 2 piece coming out of your pump?

4. Do you recirc throughout the entire mash? If so, do you find it fairly easy to main pretty consistent temps throughout the mash?

Click to expand...

Thanks for the questions and please feel free to copy anything you see on my rig. Homebrew should be open source for others to use and improve on. I'll do my best to answer the questions.

1. I don't have a parts list but from my experience you want a ball valve into and out of the march pump. You always want to make sure that any flow control is on the output of the pump, otherwise it is likely to cavitate. All my flow control is with the outgoing valve.

2. I'll have to send updated pictures, but there is now a J-type thermocouple used on the T-fitting that will be directly in line with the outgoing flow. The thermocouple is threaded into a quick disconnect so it can be easily removed. The thermocouple will be wired to a PID controller to turn on/off the burner.

3. No, the 3 piece valve was a spare that I previously had on my conical. It was not full port and did not allow good trub flow out of the fermenter. It works great for the out going port of the march pump.

4. I recirculate through the entire mash. I think it's helped BIAB clarity and efficiency, although I don't have numbers yet to back up that claim. Starch conversion seems to go faster with the recirculation.

Let me know if you have any other questions. I'll post new pics soon. I still haven't wired this to the control box. In due time.

cheers,

McTarnamins said:

Thanks for the questions and please feel free to copy anything you see on my rig. Homebrew should be open source for others to use and improve on. I'll do my best to answer the questions.

1. I don't have a parts list but from my experience you want a ball valve into and out of the march pump. You always want to make sure that any flow control is on the output of the pump, otherwise it is likely to cavitate. All my flow control is with the outgoing valve.

2. I'll have to send updated pictures, but there is now a J-type thermocouple used on the T-fitting that will be directly in line with the outgoing flow. The thermocouple is threaded into a quick disconnect so it can be easily removed. The thermocouple will be wired to a PID controller to turn on/off the burner.

3. No, the 3 piece valve was a spare that I previously had on my conical. It was not full port and did not allow good trub flow out of the fermenter. It works great for the out going port of the march pump.

4. I recirculate through the entire mash. I think it's helped BIAB clarity and efficiency, although I don't have numbers yet to back up that claim. Starch conversion seems to go faster with the recirculation.

Let me know if you have any other questions. I'll post new pics soon. I still haven't wired this to the control box. In due time.

cheers,

Click to expand...

Thanks for the replies! I currently use an RTD probe connected to a PID on my kettle. Even with it insulated, I still have problems getting an accurate temp reading without constant stirring. I think this method would give me a more accurate way to keep mash temps constant. Do you think that I could leave my RTD sensor on the side of the kettle or does it need to be installed in the plumbing between the kettle and the pump inlet?

HossTheGreat said:

Thanks for the replies! I currently use an RTD probe connected to a PID on my kettle. Even with it insulated, I still have problems getting an accurate temp reading without constant stirring. I think this method would give me a more accurate way to keep mash temps constant. Do you think that I could leave my RTD sensor on the side of the kettle or does it need to be installed in the plumbing between the kettle and the pump inlet?

Click to expand...

You could put it on the side of the kettle. I think the temperature profile is homogenious enough that it shouldn't matter. I couldn't put it on the side because of the bag for keeping the grain would interfere. Eventually I plan to mount a BBQ rotisserie motor to the lid and have constant stirring of the mash and to break up channeling. They are about 15 RPM which should be about right.

Best of luck. I'll post more pictures soon. I just got back from a 2 week business trip so I'll have time now.

Happy Independence Day!

This is great. I am doing my first BIAB either tonight or tomorrow and just fell upon this thread and the idea of recirculating BIAB. Love the setup and I think I'll try to figure one out for myself.

Thanks for posting.

B

This system looks really awesome. I do BIAB in a Keggle and I really want to do both recirc and 10G batches. Looks like you've got something to address both of these!

Have you calculated your system losses yet? I'm interested in how much you might lose to the pumps and extra lines.

Also, when you're done with the mash, do you just pull the basket out and let it drain over the pot and then do your boil on one of the two kettles?

Wondering if the OP is still around, would love an update on this project.

same here.

I'm the OP. I ended up selling my BIAB RIMS system to a buddy (actually trading for a Beretta Silver Pigeon 12ga O/U Shotgun. I'm out of the brew business for awhile.

I will say this, the BIAB RIMS system was a dramatic improvement on efficiency, time, taste, and overall enjoyment of the process. It was sad to let her go. I still have a small kettle for a batch from time to time.

Cheers brew bro's.,
McTarnamins

McTarnamins said:

I'm the OP. I ended up selling my BIAB RIMS system to a buddy (actually trading for a Beretta Silver Pigeon 12ga O/U Shotgun. I'm out of the brew business for awhile.

I will say this, the BIAB RIMS system was a dramatic improvement on efficiency, time, taste, and overall enjoyment of the process. It was sad to let her go. I still have a small kettle for a batch from time to time.

Cheers brew bro's.,
McTarnamins

Click to expand...

What kind of bag did you use/make?

Slowly moving forward with mine, cloning the recirc plumbing side of the Blichmann ToP. Will control the burner manually for now, might buy their control module down the road.

crusader1612 said:

What kind of bag did you use/make?

Click to expand...

I used a "large nylon" bag made purchased at Austin Homebrew. It fit perfectly and lasted about 10 brews.

Chers,
Mctarnamins

Love the method! Made a video this morning for mine!