Brewing cost

I’m wondering what is the most economical way to purchase brewing ingredients. Is it more cost effective to get a kit or will I save money buying the ingredients separate?

From my experience, it works out to be about the same if you buy the ingredients in a kit or individually. Advantage of not using a kit is the freedom to alter the recipe a bit, easier, anyway. However, if you buy items in bulk, you can save a bit. For example, 55 lbs. of DME, hops by the lb., Corn Sugar by the pound. Also, it will save money if you learn how to harvest your yeast (liquid only).

Going all-grain is supposedly significantly cheaper (in the long run), not including initial equipment and labor.

Going all grain and buying in bulk will save money in the very long run, since you'll have to figure in a mill and storage containers.

Yeast harvesting is a relatively easy first step.

david_42 said:

Going all grain and buying in bulk will save money in the very long run, since you'll have to figure in a mill and storage containers.

Yeast harvesting is a relatively easy first step.

Click to expand...

True, AG is the way to go to save the most money if you brew and drink/share a lot.

Does anyone know the ROI (Return on Investment) cost for say going AG and brewing 100 gal per year? How many batches do you have to brew to pay for all the equipment you have to buy?

FWIW, this is a serious question...anyone?

homebrewer_99 said:

True, AG is the way to go to save the most money if you brew and drink/share a lot.

Does anyone know the ROI (Return on Investment) cost for say going AG and brewing 100 gal per year? How many batches do you have to brew to pay for all the equipment you have to buy?

FWIW, this is a serious question...anyone?

Click to expand...

There are a lot of variables when it comes to the cost of going all grain so it's kind of an individual thing.
I can tell you what I save between grain and malt extract with each batch.
I buy my base malt (American 2 row) in a 55 pound sack. It costs me about 30 dollars or roughly 55 cents per pound. I use about 9 pounds or so in a batch. I don't buy specialty grains in bulk so figure about 2 pounds average at 1.50 per pound.
On grains alone I'm spending about 8 dollars or so. The equivalent in malt extract would be approximately 14 to 18 dollars depending on how much you use and if you use dry verses liquid extract. I'm guessing I'm saving about 6 or 7 dollars per batch.
Folks who brew extract check my numbers. I haven't purchased much extract lately and I could be off.
I honestly don't think I will ever pay off my AG equipment with the savings but brewing cheaper wasn't my primary reason for going AG. I love the hobby and the capability of having more control over my beers was worth the investment.

OK, I wasn't really referring to the price of grain and extract...I meant the price of the full-fledged brewing equipment racks and boil kettles/kegs a lot of these guys have been displaying...and they look great BTW.

Saving money by going AG is one of the great misnomers of homebrewing since your need for new equipment on a continual basis goes up exponentially! Now, when are pH meters going to become more affordable...

david_42 said:

Going all grain and buying in bulk will save money in the very long run, since you'll have to figure in a mill and storage containers.

Yeast harvesting is a relatively easy first step.

Click to expand...

I was wondering about this, I know that there are hundreds of forums about yeast harvesting, but how much is it really gonna save me? Also, are there any risks like contamination, etc. that come with harvesting? If so, it seems to me, that at my time in brewing it would just be worth the peace of mind to spend the extra couple bucks.

The biggest expense that I have been able to save on is the salvage of yeast, freezing/storing and purchase stuff in bulk... You go online and even at a homebrew shop, it's less money to buy stuff for three brews at a time... AG is the best way go with harvesting yeast... BUT, you have to look at it this way... When you brew your own beer, your brewing HQ stuff... At a store you would pay "sometimes" $10 for a 4 pack of gooooooooooood beer.... For between $30 to $50, your making 5 gallons...

RichBrewer said:

There are a lot of variables when it comes to the cost of going all grain so it's kind of an individual thing.
I can tell you what I save between grain and malt extract with each batch.
I buy my base malt (American 2 row) in a 55 pound sack. It costs me about 30 dollars or roughly 55 cents per pound. I use about 9 pounds or so in a batch. I don't buy specialty grains in bulk so figure about 2 pounds average at 1.50 per pound.
On grains alone I'm spending about 8 dollars or so. The equivalent in malt extract would be approximately 14 to 18 dollars depending on how much you use and if you use dry verses liquid extract. I'm guessing I'm saving about 6 or 7 dollars per batch.
Folks who brew extract check my numbers. I haven't purchased much extract lately and I could be off.
I honestly don't think I will ever pay off my AG equipment with the savings but brewing cheaper wasn't my primary reason for going AG. I love the hobby and the capability of having more control over my beers was worth the investment.

Click to expand...

Yeah, but you're Rich, Brewer.

God Emporer BillyBrew said:

Yeah, but you're Rich, Brewer.

Click to expand...

Trust me when I say it's in name only...

Baron von BeeGee said:

Saving money by going AG is one of the great misnomers of homebrewing since your need for new equipment on a continual basis goes up exponentially! Now, when are pH meters going to become more affordable...

Click to expand...

Not for me. When I did extract brewing it was costing me $40 to $50 Cdn to brew 5 gallons, now I'm less than $20 Cdn per brew. Say I spent an extra $150 to get my mash tun outfitted and to buy a porkert mill (everything else like turkey frier etc I had anyway) I figure I'm in money or awful close to it.

And it is hard to buy this kind of fun.

I've probably invested about two hundred bucks in gear to go AG. Would have been more if BostonBrewin' wasn't such a great guy and sent me a keg to convert. But, between the parts to convert that, the mash tun, the burner, deposit on a propane tank, the chiller... yeah, about $200.

I figure now, I can make a batch of beer for, eh, about $20. About ten bucks for the base grain (assuming I'm using nine pounds or so). Another three or four for specialty grains. A couple bags of hops at $2.50 a pop. Dry yeast.

Extract, the HBS sells three-pound bags of DME for $15 (yeah, I know, a ripoff). Two of those, plus three or four bucks of specialty grains, plus hops, plus the yeast, about $40 bucks.

So, unless I go absolutely ape**** in buying MORE gear, that's about a ten-batch payback period. The only other *big* piece of equipment on the list is a grain mill, and the only real cost to that is paying Yuri to machine me up a couple roller mills. That'll pay for itself by letting me buy bulk grain.

I went to AG including burner, keg, hot water heater and mash tun for less then £70.

AG is definately worth it. My last brew cost $22 USD including $6 for yeast, and bagged hops by the ounce.

I've bought some mail order hops at 0.85/oz. so that should cut down the next batch a about $3, and if I save my yeast I could save another $6. Heck, once you're down to $13/5 gal batch...you see it is MUCH cheaper than the $35 kits, and it's a ton more fun. Now, I went kinda nuts and bought a full AG setup on Ebay for $300, but I have more than enough equipment to brew 10 gallon all grain batches. No need to go up that high unless you really want to get into 10 gallon batches.

RichBrewer said:

There are a lot of variables when it comes to the cost of going all grain so it's kind of an individual thing.
I can tell you what I save between grain and malt extract with each batch.
I buy my base malt (American 2 row) in a 55 pound sack. It costs me about 30 dollars or roughly 55 cents per pound. I use about 9 pounds or so in a batch. I don't buy specialty grains in bulk so figure about 2 pounds average at 1.50 per pound.

Click to expand...

RichBrewer, where are you getting your bulk grain at? What part of Colorado are you in?

Interestingly (or maybe not) while studying for my finance final I used risk-neutral probabilities to determine the net present value of going all-grain. I considered that I'm a new brewer and said there was a 20% chance I'd do only 5 more batches and an 80% chance I'd do 40 batches before work kills the fun, and then used the $7 or so cost savings per batch, and in the end did I think the project was only worth $20 or something. Plus there is the cost of storage, and if you're married your significant other will probably decide they need something else for their hobby too so you can double all your costs.

UTDoug said:

Interestingly (or maybe not) while studying for my finance final I used risk-neutral probabilities to determine the net present value of going all-grain. I considered that I'm a new brewer and said there was a 20% chance I'd do only 5 more batches and an 80% chance I'd do 40 batches before work kills the fun, and then used the $7 or so cost savings per batch, and in the end did I think the project was only worth $20 or something. Plus there is the cost of storage, and if you're married your significant other will probably decide they need something else for their hobby too so you can double all your costs.

Click to expand...

So, if I understand correctly, your calculations show that by going all-grain, you will only save $20? (is this for the lifespan of equipment, annual, each batch, what?)

I think you are right about the storage. I live in an apartment, so that, itself, deters me from taking the plunge. :cross:

Did he ever say what he is brewing with?

Unless you have a place to keep it where it won't spoil before you use it, or if you brew say nearly every weekend, keep buying the kits. Chances are you will brew many different kits. If you start buying grain in bulk, are you going to brew the same recipe or recipes that use the same grains to use up your bulk purchase before it goes bad? Grain doesn't stay good forever.

If your brewing with extract, keep buying kits. You will either end up with a 55gal drum in your closet, or a bunch of little plastic jugs with extract sitting around the house waiting for what?

DME is probably the easiest to take car of, but why have a bunch of it waiting around to get wet or have the bag break?

If your just starting out with brewing, you have plenty of time for this hobby to go awry - don't rush it. Just wait until you are building a shack in the back just to brew in like me

UTDoug said:

, and if you're married your significant other will probably decide they need something else for their hobby too so you can double all your costs.

Click to expand...

Ain't that the truth!

I agree with RichBrewer, if your you are tryhing to "Cost Jusfity" a hobby it probaly isn't a hobby sounds more like a business decision. Another brewer related the bass boat analogy to me when I was thinking about going all grain. When my neighbor has a $15,000 boat in his drive way for his fishing hobby he uses a few times a year it makes $500.00 in all grain equipment pretty cheap.

RichBrewer said:

There are a lot of variables when it comes to the cost of going all grain so it's kind of an individual thing.
I can tell you what I save between grain and malt extract with each batch.
I buy my base malt (American 2 row) in a 55 pound sack. It costs me about 30 dollars or roughly 55 cents per pound. I use about 9 pounds or so in a batch. I don't buy specialty grains in bulk so figure about 2 pounds average at 1.50 per pound.
On grains alone I'm spending about 8 dollars or so. The equivalent in malt extract would be approximately 14 to 18 dollars depending on how much you use and if you use dry verses liquid extract. I'm guessing I'm saving about 6 or 7 dollars per batch.
Folks who brew extract check my numbers. I haven't purchased much extract lately and I could be off.
I honestly don't think I will ever pay off my AG equipment with the savings but brewing cheaper wasn't my primary reason for going AG. I love the hobby and the capability of having more control over my beers was worth the investment.

Click to expand...

I'm a poor college student so I don't have much money to spend on brewing ingredients or equipment. I use a 5 gal pot for a mash tun and heat it using my stove. I brew small four to eight Liter batches in order to avoid buying any more equipment. I crush grains with a rolling pin (takes time but gets a good crush). I can do step mashes in my 5 gal pot on my stove, I then pour the wort and grains into a makeshift lauter tun that consists of two 3 gal buckets nested inside eachother, one with a spigot, one with holes punched in the bottom for a false bottom. I ferment in two to four 4 Liter glass Carlo Rossi wine jugs that were free (found in recycling). For secondary I rack to more wine jugs. This is the cheapest system I was able to come up with, under 40 dollars for equipment plus the price of grain per batch. Some might say that brewing smaller batches is a handicap, but for the begininning brewer it allows for a brew day every week, which provides valuable experience.

These are just some rough numbers, but likely close enough for merit:

Extract by the can (3.3 LME) = $12/can = $4/#
DME by the 3# bag = $10/bag = $3.33/#

Grain by the # = $1.50/#
Grain in bulk = $0.50/#

Hops by the 1oz freezer pack at LHBS = $1.50/oz
Hops by the 1oz from freshops.com = $0.75-0.85/oz

Check out Cheesefood's infamous caramel cream ale:
3# light dme = $10
3# wheat dme = $10
1# crystal 60 = $1.50
2oz hops = $3

Total cost extract version= $24.50

4.5# 2row = $6
3.5# wheat = $5.25
1# crystal = $1.50
2oz hops mail order = $3

Total AG retail cost = $15.75

4.5# 2row = $2.50
3.5# wheat = $2.00
1# crystal = $1.50
2oz hops = $1.60

Total bulk AG cost = $7.60

Now, $10-15/batch may not be a lot if you only brew 5 batches a year, but I brew almost every weekend, sometimes 2 per weekend.

Add a little reuse of yeast, and I'm looking at another $3-5 savings per batch.

My AG equipment cost me $330, but I got a lot more than just AG equipment. My guess is, if you got a pot big enough already to full boil 8 gallons down to a 5 or 5.5 gal batch, all you nead is a mash tun you can build for $30 + cooler. If the mash tun costs you even $100, you only need to brew 10 batches to make up for it. If you brew bigger batches or higher gravity batches, it'll be even less.

Go AG and start buying in bulk.As far as equipment goes,for me anyways,the initial outlay for the basic kit(buckets,carboys,bottling stuff) was the biggest expense.The mash tun(cooler w/cork and ss hose sleeve),the kettle(SWMBO's 58qt. ss crab cooker pot),the immersion chiller(coil of copper tubing w/hoseclamps),all of these we had on hand.I did have to buy a mill(cheap porkert)but besides that,all my coin now goes into ingredients.Sure there's a ton of other cool stuff a guy can get but i'm content with my set-up........well,i wouldn't mind more carboys or 10-15 gal primaries.
Barley by the bag,hops by the lb.,dry yeast by the brick......Cheaper!Recipe possibilities,quality time with brew partner(SWMBO),great beer,sense of accomplishment.......Priceless!
Cheers

I've probably invested about two hundred bucks in gear to go AG. Would have been more if BostonBrewin' wasn't such a great guy and sent me a keg to convert. But, between the parts to convert that, the mash tun, the burner, deposit on a propane tank, the chiller... yeah, about $200.

Click to expand...

I did about the same. I have brewed about 12-14 all grain batches and I figure I am about half way to break even. Others have said that it just keeps going and some would say that I am an exception to that rule. I don't believe it. Personally, I have topped out on my wish list of equipment and goodies some months back. I have not desire for bigger kettles or bigger, better anything. I have no desire, nor room for a brew sculpture, RIMS, HERMS or any other setup.

Don't mistake. I have bought over the time I have been brewing, extract, partial mash and all grain several extras - stir plate, chest freezer and temp controler, built a ice bath chiller and so on. I use them all. (deep South - 100° days and 85° water) I would have bought these extras whether I continued doing only extract or partial mash.

I only bottle and never plan to keg. I like to bottle and I can't imagine wanting a tap in my small townhome. I did purchase a bottle tree, with a squirt sanitizer on top. I have a dedicated bottle washer on my hot water line in my garage with a drain under it.

Yeah, I have my goodies just the way I like it and no more. With what I have I can brew any beer I want and the challenge of the hobby for me is to brew to develop recipes I like, hone my skills to produce better products and develop my routine so that my technical control is as close to perfect as possible.

I know other brewers that have reached the comfort zone in equipment and technique that seldom add to their equipment. I know a couple of partial mash brewers that have been doing that for years and have no desire to go all grain.

I'm sure I'll spend another couple hundred bucks in the next year. I imagine by next X-mas, I'll have some kind of kegging setup going. But, no rush other than the fact that bottling is kind of a PITA, and that's something I would consider doing regardless of whether I was extract or AG.

My LHBS sells the 3 lb bags of DME for about 14 bucks.

I figure if I harvest the yeast the avg cost of one of my extract with steeped grains batch was 30 to 35 bucks.

With AG i am able to get the bulk 2 and that costs me per batch (lets round up for simplicity) about 8 bucks and with say 3 bucks in specialty grains and 3 more in hops i am up to 14 bucks.

I supppose in a perfect world 5 gallons costs me 15 to 20 bucks a batch.

and as far as cheeses recipe, you forgot to add the 6 bucks an oz of real vanilla extract. his calls for what 4 oz of it! Not a cheap recipe, but, just kegged it a week ago, it is worth it!!!!

As for vanilla, I got 2oz for $5. I didn't add it to the recipe because it's the same cost in all 3 versions. Vanilla extract is one thing you DONT need to buy bulk. Also why I didn't include yeast because it's the same cost in all 3 recipes.