Primary fermenting temperature? Yeast sinking to the bottom?

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MrsJones

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Hey all. :) I am still learning how to brew and have gotten great advice from you guys in the past, hopefully I can use the help I've gotten here to help out a newbie like me someday. :D

My questions have to do with primary fermentation temp and yeast. My husband and I brewed a taddy porter clone on Sunday. Right now, it is in an outdoor fridge with a temp regulator on it and has been between 62 and 68 degrees.

Question 1: Is this temperature about right? Reason I ask is, it is not vigorously fermenting as fast as other batches have. It has only been about 18 hours, but usually we see the start of activity by now, bubbles and churning and stuff. Seems also the the yeast has dropped to the bottom. Which leads me to my second question...

Question2: Is it possible for yeast to just sink without doing their thing? (We used White Labs WLP005 British Ale Yeast) There is a thin krausen layer on the top of the wort but no real bubbling and the airlock is still. Ahgain, it's only been 18 hours...should I do anything? Should I shake up the carboy, should I change the temp? Thanks so much in advance for any answers to these 2 questions. Any of your knowledge is very helpful.
 
It seems to me that going from 68 to 62F is causing the yeast to go dormant & settle out mostly. That would be why you have the thin krausen. Try to keep the temps more consistent & within that particular yeast's temp range.
And don't shake it up,that'd introduce o2 which is bad at this point. Gently swirl it to get some more yeast back in suspension. Warming it up a couple degrees above 62F would be a good thing.
 
Well, you can shake it up as long as you haven't taken the cover or airlock off the carboy yet. Majority of the fermentation should have pushed the oxygen out of the carboy by now.
THe optimum temperature for this yeast is 65 to 70 degrees; you're not going to see that "vigorous" fermentation at around 62 degrees because the yeast doesn't work effectively at those lower temps. The best way to ensure that your fermentation is going well is to pull a sample and to take a hydrometer reading.
I agree with Unionrdr, get that carboy above 65 degrees and give it a gentle swirl - I have to do the same thing with my current batch.
 
WLP005 is a high flocculator. It will do it's job fine from the bottom. If the temperature is colder than you have used before it will seem like a slow start, but so far things sound normal. Once it is going if you watch closely you will see streaks of CO2 as they burst out of the yeast settled to the bottom. It's reminiscent of fire works. This is a sign that the yeast is fermenting from the bottom. It's fine.
 
Right now, it is in an outdoor fridge with a temp regulator on it and has been between 62 and 68 degrees.

If you have a temperature regulator on your fridge, how is it that you are seeing an 8 degree swing? Once I set my STC-1000 parameters, the temp in my garage freezer will only fluctuate +/- 0.5*C before it warms or cools back to my target temp.

There is a thin krausen layer on the top of the wort but no real bubbling and the airlock is still. Ahgain, it's only been 18 hours...should I do anything? Should I shake up the carboy, should I change the temp? Thanks so much in advance for any answers to these 2 questions. Any of your knowledge is very helpful.

I'd wait 24-36 hours before considering messing with it. I haven't been brewing very long and I've already seen one kick in at a little past 24 hours followed by significant visible activity for the next few days.
 
Thanks, guys. As always, I am appreciative of the great input. You made me feel much better about the situation, Woodlandbrew. I did not know yeast could do it's job from the bottom and thought maybe that rendered it ineffective. But, not one to wait, I had already picked up the carboy and given it a bit of a swirl, like the other guys suggested. :) Hope that doesn't mess things up. I will check on it again after 24 hours and see how it's doing. I don't think there is any reason to panic, we sanitize incessantly and keep very tight control of mashing temperatures and what not. Big Floyd, the only reason for that is because the fridge is outside. The temp controller only makes it get colder, but can't heat it up. The weather outside made the temp go down to 62. But otherwise it has been staying right at 66 or 67.
 
Woodlandbrew. I did not know yeast could do it's job from the bottom and thought maybe that rendered it ineffective.
It will make the yeast inefficient, but not ineffective. There is a much higher change that the yeast will come into contact with food when susspended in wort than when at the bottom, but it will get the job done. They might decided they have had enough a few gravity points early, but that's part of why you select a low attenuating yeast like a WLP005. Leaving a little more sweetness can be part of the style.
 
Inefficient meaning it might just take longer? And yes, we were hoping for an English porter sort of sweetness.
 
Inefficient meaning it might just take longer? And yes, we were hoping for an English porter sort of sweetness.
Yes, it might take a couple of extra days, but if you want that sweetness, then I would just let it do its thing. What was your mash temperature and time? I had a beer come out too sweet once.
 
A bottom fermenting yeast is a lager yeast but you said you're using English ale. The temp has to be the issue, ale yeast should be creating that thick top layer you're looking for. Stay in temp range and you'll be fine
 
Big Floyd, the only reason for that is because the fridge is outside. The temp controller only makes it get colder, but can't heat it up. The weather outside made the temp go down to 62. But otherwise it has been staying right at 66 or 67.

You might want to seriously consider spending the $30-35 needed to build a dual temp control box (using an STC-1000) for that fridge.

That, combined with a DIY Paint can fermentation heater will be the best money you've ever spend on brew equipment. You can set it at the temp you want and not worry about how hot or cold the weather gets.

http://brewstands.com/fermentation-heater.html



https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f51/ebay-aquarium-temp-controller-build-163849/[/FONT]
 
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I tried to keep the mash at 155, did it for 1 hour. It was 154-156 or so the majority of the time. Couple times it went higher or lower, but not many. I am pretty confident that the brewing techniques we used would be appropriate for the style and we were totally anal about sanitation. I am thinking the lower fermenting temp just may be taking the yeast awhile to do it's thang. I will check again on the brew at the 24 hour mark, and even wait till 36 hours before I start thinking something might be wrong. Sound right?
 
Wow, thanks for that link, Bigfloyd!! My husband will be giddy when he sees that. He loves projects and do it yourself gadgets and could probably do something like that and have a blast.
 
Thanks Woodland Brew. Dang, you've got a lot of interesting data and research to back you up. Pretty awesome and i bet my husband would have to change his boxers if he read all that. He is into science, math...pretty much a geek in general. ;-)

I am guessing that based on all this, 68% attenuation may be pretty good for the style. A porter should be sweet...hope it's not cloyingly sweet. Although my husband probably wouldn't mind if it was. He loves malt forward darker beers.
 
Hey all. :) I am still learning how to brew and have gotten great advice from you guys in the past, hopefully I can use the help I've gotten here to help out a newbie like me someday. :D

My questions have to do with primary fermentation temp and yeast. My husband and I brewed a taddy porter clone on Sunday. Right now, it is in an outdoor fridge with a temp regulator on it and has been between 62 and 68 degrees.

Question 1: Is this temperature about right? Reason I ask is, it is not vigorously fermenting as fast as other batches have. It has only been about 18 hours, but usually we see the start of activity by now, bubbles and churning and stuff. Seems also the the yeast has dropped to the bottom. Which leads me to my second question...

Question2: Is it possible for yeast to just sink without doing their thing? (We used White Labs WLP005 British Ale Yeast) There is a thin krausen layer on the top of the wort but no real bubbling and the airlock is still. Ahgain, it's only been 18 hours...should I do anything? Should I shake up the carboy, should I change the temp? Thanks so much in advance for any answers to these 2 questions. Any of your knowledge is very helpful.

Maybe think about making a stir plate and adding yeast nutrients. Get the starter yeast going 3 or 4 days before you brew. Thus building strong cell walls for the yeast before pitching. You can build a stir plate for pretty cheap. This should help with the yeast drooping out too soon. The temp change may be stressing that type of yeast
 
When you build the heater for inside your fridge I'd recommend a little personal heater like this instead of the lightbulb idea. I never did the "light bulb in a paint can" but I did wrap a lightbulb in tin foil before and it not only melted the lightbulb itself but burned through the tin foil. I stopped messing with the massive amount of heat a light bulb can put out. That little personal heater has a safety auto-shut off if it gets too hot for some reason.
 
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I never did the "light bulb in a paint can" but I did wrap a lightbulb in tin foil before and it not only melted the lightbulb itself but burned through the tin foil. I stopped messing with the massive amount of heat a light bulb can put out. That little personal heater has a safety auto-shut off if it gets too hot for some reason.

When you wrap foil around a light bulb, you aren't leaving anywhere near enough airspace between the bulb and the foil, not to mention the foil reflecting back much of the radiant energy.. The heat builds up quickly and causes the kinds of problems you experienced. There's plenty of airspace inside the paint can. I've had no issues with mine. When needed, it warms the chamber 0.5*C and then turns off.

You have watch out when using a small heater connected to a dual controller. Many (probably most sold now) heaters don't come on automatically when you plug them in (or when the controller powers their plug). You also have to push a power button each time to activate it. We have two such heaters at home. They simply will not work in this sort of application. It does look like the "MyHeat" heater may be one of the few that has an "old fashioned" power switch and would work.

MsJones - tell your husband that he needs to DIY a stirplate while he's doing all these fun science projects. My wife thinks that my stir plate is the neatest thing I've built so far.
 
The stir plate is for a starter yeast, right? We have never used a starter but I see how highly they are regarded on here and I guess we should do that with the next batch. I will probably be asking about how to do that when we are about to brew again. ;-)

We have done two 1 gallon all grain batches (a brown and a porter) and used dry yeast on those. Got the kits from Austin Homebrew and just used the yeast from the kit, pitched it directly. Those beers were both very good. :-D So we decided to do bigger batches. I wanted to get creative because I love to cook, so I researched a bunch of different recipes and we did a two gallon batch of ESB, a Jones original. (Hopefully will be close to Fuller's :)). The one I am asking questions about now is a 2 gallon batch of porter (another Jones original...and can you tell we like English styles?) We wanted to put some cocoa nibs in the secondary and also some raspberrry flavoring at bottling.

Update: Fermentation is still slow going, but steady. I looked this morning at about 38 hours and it seems to be on the down slope? There was an inch of krausen but that has settled down a bit to maybe 1/2 inch. Airlock is still bubbling pretty good and there are certainly bubbles popping on the krausen. Thinking about swirling it again to get some more of that yeast in suspension. Next time I will make sure to pitch at a temp more appropriate for the yeast, and perhaps make a starter. I am learning so much and having so much fun with this.
 
Don't mess with swirling it,it's fermenting just fine as it is. The fast bubbling will slow down or stop when initial fermentation is over. It'll then slowly,uneventfully creep down to FG. Then another 3-7 days to clean up & settle out clear or slightly misty.
 
Thanks Woodland Brew. Dang, you've got a lot of interesting data and research to back you up. Pretty awesome and i bet my husband would have to change his boxers if he read all that. He is into science, math...pretty much a geek in general. ;-)
Thanks! There is a new post every other day. You can sign up via email or g+.
 
For sure!! DIY projects are the best!!! Make a stir plate ... makes you feel like a like a professor.
use a liquid yeast if you can. No more kits. Find a recipe with extracts first. Then move to all grain!! ( so much more liberating ) if you need to use a worth chiller or ice bath to get your worth to pitching temp do it. Wait till its the said temp so your not wasting. Patience is everything. :) happy brewing! !
 
When you wrap foil around a light bulb, you aren't leaving anywhere near enough airspace between the bulb and the foil, not to mention the foil reflecting back much of the radiant energy.. The heat builds up quickly and causes the kinds of problems you experienced. There's plenty of airspace inside the paint can. I've had no issues with mine. When needed, it warms the chamber 0.5*C and then turns off.

You have watch out when using a small heater connected to a dual controller. Many (probably most sold now) heaters don't come on automatically when you plug them in (or when the controller powers their plug). You also have to push a power button each time to activate it. We have two such heaters at home. They simply will not work in this sort of application. It does look like the "MyHeat" heater may be one of the few that has an "old fashioned" power switch and would work.

MsJones - tell your husband that he needs to DIY a stirplate while he's doing all these fun science projects. My wife thinks that my stir plate is the neatest thing I've built so far.
That's what I assumed was the difference between the paint can and the tin foil. I just didn't want to deal with any risk once i realized just how much heat a light bulb can put out.

The little heater that I linked has a manual on/off switch so it indeed will fire up when the temp controller gives it power. I liked having the safety of the auto-shutoff if it got too hot as well. It also has a fan built in that will help move the air around when it kicks on. I've been using it for over a year now without any issues.

:mug:
 
Tripplehazard, he has made his own carboy wand and considered making a wort chiller. One time he went as one of the Blues Brothers for Halloween and he built a suitcase that played blues music. :D I will tell him about the stir plate. And yes, we wanted to brew the highest quality beer we could from the start--no extracts for us. Not to say that they are bad, but we new AG would be better and wanted to learn the hard way first. We'll see how these first couple batches come out, got an ESB in the secondary and this porter in the primary. By the way, I read up on WLP005 and I am no longer worried about the fermentation. This is what I read from the website:

This is normal behavior for the British yeast. You don't see that much activity because it doesn't rise to the top at all. It ferments from the bottom, unusual for ale yeast but becoming more common as many UK ale brewers have switched to conical fermentors. You should still be getting good CO2 generation, however, and that should be strong. Sometimes people rack off after a day or so, which in the case of this yeast, it would leave it all behind. It's best to leave it and not rack the beer until approximately 24 hours post terminal gravity, at the earliest. If you didn't rack, it would be very unusual for fermentation to not be complete with 70 F constant temp and good aeration.
 
Don't mess with swirling it,it's fermenting just fine as it is. The fast bubbling will slow down or stop when initial fermentation is over. It'll then slowly,uneventfully creep down to FG. Then another 3-7 days to clean up & settle out clear or slightly misty.

+1 Leave those poor little yeasties alone to finish their work.:D
 
Will do, friend. After reading a BUNCH on here, I am going to leave this bad boy in the primary for at least a couple weeks. Then we are going to rack it to a secondary with some sanitized cocoa nibs. At bottling we may or may not add some raspberry flavor.

Also, the hubs made a paint can heater...thanks so much for the suggestion Big Floyd and Zeek. It has been keeping the temp at a steady 67 degrees even with the cold weather! :D
 

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