Siebel Institute of Technology Web Courses

Has anyone out there taken any of the online courses at Siebel Institute out of Chicago. I was thinking about enrolling for their Concise Course for Brewing Technology, but just curious if I could find some feedback.

Cheers

I've wondered about that too. Hope someone can give some feedback.

Interested also....Someone around here has to have done one.

Perhaps I am posting in the wrong section? I found a few other posts from the past and tried contacting those people, but no luck so far. The most recent of those posts I found was 2009.

Hi guys,
I took the Concise course.
It's not bad but I think you can get the same info and save a lot of money by doing a lot of reading on your own.

KVP said:

Hi guys,
I took the Concise course.
It's not bad but I think you can get the same info and save a lot of money by doing a lot of reading on your own.

Click to expand...

I kind of thought the price was a bit high for distance learning.

Between John Palmer, Jamil's & Randy Moshers books plus this community, you can get quite an education under 100 bucks.

Sitting in front of your monitor and a massive stainless brew kettle are two totally different learning experiences. Volunteer at you local brewery. You will learn loads.

Take tours if you can. They are priceless. Here's one of my favorite memories.

KVP said:

Hi guys,
I took the Concise course.
It's not bad but I think you can get the same info and save a lot of money by doing a lot of reading on your own.

Click to expand...

The only reason I would take this course would be to become eligible for the 20 week Master Brewer course they offer. It looked like a great hands on experience to really learn all you can about beer.

Not sure if anyone is following this thread anymore, but I just signed up for the "Executive Overview of the Brewing Process" and the "Start Your Own Brewery". I begin the online course "Executive Overview of the Brewing Process" in October and I will then be traveling up to Chicago to attend the 3 day course of "Start Your Own Brewery". Yes it does cost a pretty penny, but if you are going to be in the business, then you have to look at it as an investment for the future. I am planning on opening up a brewpub concept in Atlanta next year and view these courses as being geared towards my goal. I will try to keep you informed if you are interested. PM me with your email if you want to know more information while I am taking the classes.

As far as reading books and getting all your information through that, I completely agree. I have learned a ton just by trying to absorb everything I can find reading wise and watching vids on the net. However, when it comes to finding investors for your business they like to see 2 things: a good business plan and some sort of schooling that shows a foundation for what essentially is their investment.

Yes, that sounds awesome please keep me up to date on your status. I am rather jealous you are going to be doing that.

Currently looking into taking classes to see what I can do after getting my small business associates. If I could potentially go here that'd obviously be awesome, or even take online classes in the mean time. Keep this updated! As you said you start in October so hopefully you'll post back. There's not too much information about them!

BGates14:

I am in the final week of the 3 week online course. As far as things that I have learned, I can tell you that you can pretty much get the same things from reading alot, watching every video on youtube an talking to as many people as you can who are in the business. Paying close to $850 for the online course may not seem feasible for someone who is looking to just get some knowledge for home brewing. It is, however, great for someone who is planning on going into the business. It has taken all the information and knowledge that I have gathered over the last 2-3 years and condensed it into an actual learning format. I am also going up on Nov. 28-30 for a three seminar course that discusses brewery and brewpub operations. All in all, I have spent close to $2000. Is this a good investment? I believe so, but if I could take the time off to actually attend, I would have done that instead of the online course, because I believe hands-on training is better than discussions and reading. email me at [email protected] if you want to talk more about it and I can give you some information that could be useful.

I took the Concise Course in Brewing Technology online from Siebel two years ago. It was paid for in part by the brewery I was working for as part of their benefits package. It's a good course and anyone interested in taking it should go ahead. It is pricey but if you're in the industry it is helpful for sure. It's not the be all and end all but it is one more course to ad to your CV.

What ChefJoeR said about investors wanting to see some credential is exactly what this one brewery owner wanted to see. They have a VERY good head brewer but without any "formal" training. Apparently 30 years in the commercial brewing industry along with startups isn't enough for some people. LOL The fact that I was going ahead and doing a course and would have something on paper was appealing to the owner as I can see it would be to investors.

The course itself is good but you do have to be diligent about it. There is a bunch of reading and testing along with weekly online discussion groups to answer questions and discuss the "Topic of the Week". If you fall behind it can be difficult to get caught up. I was doing it in the midst of full time brewery work, part time musician, full time dad with young family so there were times I did fall behind.

I'm not sure if there is any other information that people are looking for but I'm open to questions or discussion.

We wrapped up the last class yesterday at Siebel in Chicago. I have to say, I was not impressed at all. In fact, I am somewhat disappointed in the class content. With a course syllabus that has titles such as "Brewpub Startup" and "Business Plan, Section 1", I was under the impression that this would be a very business focused class. Most everyone who attended had tremendous brewing knowledge and of course viewed this class as the next stepping stone in their future. Most of the speakers began with some sound information, but ended with useless information. The total mention for the SBA was probably 5 minutes. Most of the talks were about their personal experience, which did in someways give useful info, but then they changed gears to give sales presentations of their product and strayed away from the topic. There were two saving graces, the GM from Goose Island Pub and Brewery and a representative from the TTB (Tax and Trade Bureau). The GM from Goose Island opened his books and explained the numbers, the systems, the necessity and the structure of the financial systems in a brewpub/restaurant setting. The representative from the TTB gave all the information that we needed for the proper filing and regulatory systems they have in place. Most of the others just gave you information that you could have easily gotten from visiting their website or sitting down at the bar and having a beer with them. There was very little substance, if any. Not one of them mentioned SCORE, which is an organization that helps out entrepreneurs by connecting them to former CEO's, CFO's, retired heads of industry and many others. This is also a free service! They would have mentioned this if they did more research on the SBA site because there is a link under the business planning and development heading. Alot of them gave the how's but never gave the why's. I just don't feel that there was enough, if any, business related material regarding starting up a company. There was very little discussion on financial, bank loans, real estate contracts and many more topics one would research in order to build a business. I believe that if you are to do this class right, you should invite a representative from the SBA, SCORE, major financial institution, business lawyers, business plan writers and better heads of industry to give the class talks. Having only one class on the legal aspects of the business is not enough. This class is definetly not one that I will reccomend to anyone.

Email me if you want more information or wish to hear me rant somemore!

It seems like most breweries want some education for new hires anymore. I have decided to make the leap into a brewing career. I am currently struggling over which Seibel class to take. I would love to take the full International Diploma Program but unfortunately that is not an option for me at this time. So I can take the 2 week Concise Course or the 6 week Associates Program. The Concise course is about $3000 and the Associates Program is about $10000, so financially it’s a big decision. If the price difference wasn’t so great I’d easily pick the Associates. But, I know plenty of brewers that have just the Concise course, so I am wondering if it is really worth it to take the Associates Program.

My goal is to work in a local brewery. I have no problem working long hard hours for little pay. I just want to get my foot in the door.

Does anyone have any info on the Associates Program?

Subscribed

I am looking to sign up for the concise course but the only thing is that someone on here mentioned that it takes quite a bit of time to fully complete the class and all the work, i have a full time job and want to make sure that i will still have the time to finish and get all the information needed.

Hmmm I am still keeping the idea of doing the classes in the back of my head, but I am currently at the crossroad of deciding whether I want to pursue beer or go back to school for a masters degree in history...I guess I could combine the two and get a Doctorate for Historical Fermentation...decisions decisions...

...anyways If you still have some questions about the Siebel's programs I had emailed this guy Keith from Siebel a while back. He was very helpful and answered all my questions. Give him a holler if your curious.

Cheers!

I have decided to take the Siebel Associates Program courses online. This provides the base theory and classroom part of the International Diploma, without the fun trip to Europe. I talked to a couple people that said I would already know 90% of the Concise course material and I didn't want to spend $3K on that so I figured if I am going to spend some money I might as well learn something with it.

The course looks pretty intimidating, I haven't been in school for over 5 yrs so it will be an adjustment. I am working full time as well.

As mentioned previously I am also doing this because I feel this will give comfort to some investors that they are not investing in someone who has not already made the commitment/investment themselves.

I'll post some updates as I go through the courses. First course starts Feb 27.

Hey brew happy, just curious how the courses are going? I am looking at doing the program as well.

I have been meaning to put an update for a bit, thanks for the reminder.

So the classes are not as hard as I expected, at least not so far. I didn't take a lot of science classes and don't have any science degree. But if you have read some of the more advanced homebrewing books (Noonan, Gordon Strong, Yeast by Jamil) and you understand them, you are in a good position to take the class.

The classes are set up such that you have about 3-4 quizzes each week to complete and your grade in the class is entirely based on your quiz scores. However you can complete the quizzes at your own pace. I was out of town for the first couple weeks and didn't do any quizzes. I was about a month behind at the end of the first month, but I put some time in and am now only a couple quizzes behind.

The quizzes are a mix of difficult and easy questions. Most have 5-6 questions, but some have only 1-2. The quizzes are based on power point slides with accompanied audio. You do have to listen to the audio and click through each slide because your "progress" page shows how many pages you have completed. Also some of the questions can only be answered by listening to the audio portion. You are sent a pdf of the power point slides before the class which includes example quiz questions that are identical or nearly identical to the actual quiz questions. So you can write them down before you go through the audio slides and then be sure to jot down the important stuff. This is good because they are throwing so much information at you that it would be nearly impossible to take enough notes to cover all the possible questions for the quiz. Hope that makes sense.

The class is entirely based on Jean de Clerk's Textbook of Brewing. De Clerck gets far more into the weeds but you can almost always answer the quiz questions (except for any newer info like hop products) with this book. The MBAA has a 3 part series of books that the course is also somewhat based on. But I have not found those books to be very helpful in answering the quiz material. They are good books just to read through and maybe take some notes, but if you want to buy a book get de Clerck. Heck if you don't want to spend the money on the classes, buy de Clerck and spend some quality time with it. I'd say if you get half of the info in the book it would be equivalent to taking the class.

Anyway I am a little more than half way through the Raw Materials and Wort production class. I'll try to remember to post some more updates as I go. Feel free to ask any questions you may have.

Would you say it's what you expected?

What are your future plans after completion?

brewhappy said:

I have decided to take the Siebel Associates Program courses online. This provides the base theory and classroom part of the International Diploma, without the fun trip to Europe. I talked to a couple people that said I would already know 90% of the Concise course material and I didn't want to spend $3K on that so I figured if I am going to spend some money I might as well learn something with it.

The course looks pretty intimidating, I haven't been in school for over 5 yrs so it will be an adjustment. I am working full time as well.

As mentioned previously I am also doing this because I feel this will give comfort to some investors that they are not investing in someone who has not already made the commitment/investment themselves.

I'll post some updates as I go through the courses. First course starts Feb 27.

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Hi.., I would like to join this online course, thanks for sharing with us. I am looking forward to read more updates from you. Keep posting!

This thread is perfect. Im thinking about doing this as well. Thanks so much for the updates.

So I finished my first Module, the Raw Materials and Wort Production. I averaged a 94% on the quizzes, which is the only thing the grade is based on. You need an 80% average to pass the module. I am starting the next Module in a week or so.

Overall it has been much easier than I expected, and I did not have any chemistry or biology courses in High School or College to help me out. I think it is very expensive for what you get, however it is very hard to get even an entry level job in the industry without brewing school experience.

Another thing I forgot to mention previously was that every Tuesday night they do an optional class chat session. Everyone just jumps on and talks about the recent quizzes and anything else really. The instructors are usually on the chat and they will try to throw out some hard questions to get everyone thinking and discussing actual class material. But there is a bunch of general chit chat about everyone's brewing experiences as well, and it is neat to hear everyone's story. A number of the students in the class were already working at breweries, some were international students, a lot were looking to get into the industry like me. If you can't participate in the chat sessions the instructors do send out the transcript of the chat so you can read through what you missed.

I am glad I did not choose the Concise course. It must be easier than the actual Modules and I would have been mad at myself if I had paid the 3K+ for the intro class. I think doing the Associates Program is a great compromise. If you can do the full Diploma or Masters then by all means go for it. But if you can't live in Germany for 6 weeks and afford the extra $ then the Associates is the way to go.

The instructors are very knowledgeable. If you ask a question be prepared to get an very technical answer. However they will help walk you through it so you actually understand the answer.

Well I don't want to repeat myself and I'm not sure what other information would be helpful for people so I'm happy to answer any questions about the Siebel courses and program in general.

How is this going? How much are you paying per module?

I just started the 2nd Module on Beer Production and Quality Control. I have not yet taken the first quiz for the module so I don't have any new information at this point.

The classes are about $3300 each, so basically $10,000 for the Associates Program. It's a ton of money. Especially considering Brewers' low pay.

Where are you looking to land with the associates? Are you hoping to get in with a local brewery?

Yeah I am moving back home with my wife and looking to work in a production brewery or brewpub.

Hey brewhappy, I am in the same position as you were in awhile back. I really want to get some formal education along with some hands on training doing volunteer work. I have been looking at both the concise course and the associates and I can only do online courses. Would you say the program has helped you out to get into the industry or would you suggest something else?

I have not really tried to get into the industry yet. I have applied at one place for an assistant job and they were very likely to hire me. However they were expanding due to a change in law and they bill that allowed them to expand died in the legislature. So they can't expand and hire me. I have volunteered at a brewery that is starting up but they are not yet open to the public or brewing. As far as getting into the industry I think networking goes a long way. It really helps to know some people and have them introduce you to someone else or meet people at a different events. Once people see your face around enough they tend to feel you are more vetted than someone they've never met. So definitely get out there an meet people.

I think once I have the degree in hand and I can devote time to the job search it will be a huge help.

subscribed

Hey,

So this all happened a little while ago. Would be great to hear how the rest of the course went and also what happened since ....

Thanks

I just finished up the 2nd Module on Beer Production and Quality Control. This module focused on a lot of microbiology and some genetics. I learned more from this module than from the first but a lot of it is so advanced that most brewers would never use much of the information. This module was more difficult for me than the first module. I don't have much science background just more of a science inclination and interest so a lot of the info and terminology was new to me. That being said I averaged a 93% on the tests so I am really happy about that. Looking forward to the the third module. I just saw the topics and test schedule and it looks like there are less tests and the information looks like it will be far more usable in an average small craft brewery. The topics include pumps, refrigeration, valves, steam, bottle washer design, keg technology, and automation to name a few.

I still think the classes are very expensive for what you get. I enjoy the classes and like having resources that I can fall back on in the future. But those resources are not worth $10k (cost of the Associates program). But it seems to be a necessary evil as brewers continue to want formal education in new hires, for the most part.

If you are thinking that the $10K isn't worth it, going through what you are going through, what would you advise?

A few years ago I was working as a clerk in the taproom at a local brewpub. Realizing that I would never get into the brewery without some kind of leg up, I started looking into pro-brewing courses. Having no background in biology or chemistry I ended up taking the web based concise course at Siebel. It was an OK course but I really did it only to get into the diploma/master course. To be fair though it gave me a base understanding of many important concepts that I might have otherwise struggled with.

I finished the Siebel Master Brewers' course about 13-14 months ago. In some ways it was a really great course, in other ways it had a lot of room for improvement. I found that that classes taught in Germany were MUCH better than those in Chicago. The teachers were far more experienced, and knowledgable. More importantly though, the school had a 5HL brewery, a packaging line, and multiple laboratories. This allowed me to do lots of actual hands on work like: brewing, cellaring, filtration, packaging, chemical titration, and recipe formulation.
I found that the American teachers seemed to be concerned about different critical process control points than the Germans. Some of the American teachers made a big deal about "hot side aeration" and other issues that the German brewers (and most pro brewers come to think of it) are mostly unconcerned with. In contrast the Germans were much more concerned about mashing schedules, while the Americans seemed to think anything more than a basic infusion mash was a total waste of time.

All in all the course was a great experience for me, the long periods of total immersion in the beer culture made me feel like a real expert. We got to visit some incredible breweries (Rodenbach, Fullers, Orval, and La Trappe), and make some great beer. Best of all, when I returned home and started handing out resume's breweries actually started calling me in for interviews. 6 months after completing the course I landed an assistant brewer position at MolsonCoorsCanada where I currently am working. I've learned much more here than I could have possibly learned at school, however I'm doubtful that I could have become a real professional in this industry without the (admittedly expensive) help I recieved at Siebel Institute.

AshtrayDinner said:

In contrast the Germans were much more concerned about mashing schedules, while the Americans seemed to think anything more than a basic infusion mash was a total waste of time.

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This was something i have noted during my study over the last four months.

I have a job where I sit a lot and haver been trying to improve the "scientific part" of brewing.

I have already ground up the grain form my first Decotion Mash, I just need the time to go brew it.

Your post was helpful as I am at the point in my life that I am debt free and have no responsibilities.

I would love to get into the brewing industry and have even lookec into starting a Moble-Canning business.

Cheers.

Gothic_Horror said:

If you are thinking that the $10K isn't worth it, going through what you are going through, what would you advise?

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Well that's a tough question. I think it depends on where you live or are willing to travel. If you are in a smaller city without many breweries/brewpubs then it will be easier to get to know the brewers and try to get an assistant job or internship without education. However if you are in an area with a lot of breweries the competition is going to be tough for even an internship and most all the brewers will have an education requirement just because they can. There are of course exceptions to this but in general I think this is true. I do think the American Brewer's Guild is a better deal because it is less expensive and you get hands on experience. So if you can plan ahead a couple years (since they are booked out that long) I would do that.

AshtrayDinner said:

A few years ago I was working as a clerk in the taproom at a local brewpub. Realizing that I would never get into the brewery without some kind of leg up, I started looking into pro-brewing courses. Having no background in biology or chemistry I ended up taking the web based concise course at Siebel. It was an OK course but I really did it only to get into the diploma/master course. To be fair though it gave me a base understanding of many important concepts that I might have otherwise struggled with.

I finished the Siebel Master Brewers' course about 13-14 months ago. In some ways it was a really great course, in other ways it had a lot of room for improvement. I found that that classes taught in Germany were MUCH better than those in Chicago. The teachers were far more experienced, and knowledgable. More importantly though, the school had a 5HL brewery, a packaging line, and multiple laboratories. This allowed me to do lots of actual hands on work like: brewing, cellaring, filtration, packaging, chemical titration, and recipe formulation.
I found that the American teachers seemed to be concerned about different critical process control points than the Germans. Some of the American teachers made a big deal about "hot side aeration" and other issues that the German brewers (and most pro brewers come to think of it) are mostly unconcerned with. In contrast the Germans were much more concerned about mashing schedules, while the Americans seemed to think anything more than a basic infusion mash was a total waste of time.

All in all the course was a great experience for me, the long periods of total immersion in the beer culture made me feel like a real expert. We got to visit some incredible breweries (Rodenbach, Fullers, Orval, and La Trappe), and make some great beer. Best of all, when I returned home and started handing out resume's breweries actually started calling me in for interviews. 6 months after completing the course I landed an assistant brewer position at MolsonCoorsCanada where I currently am working. I've learned much more here than I could have possibly learned at school, however I'm doubtful that I could have become a real professional in this industry without the (admittedly expensive) help I recieved at Siebel Institute.

Click to expand...

I am jealous that you got to go to Germany. I think that the Masters or Diploma course would be a much better value even though it is more expensive. Also if a person can do the Associates program in Chicago there is a lot more hands on stuff that the online folks don't get. I'm not sure that you actually brew but there are a number of tours and you get to do some lab work and weekly outings. I think that is a better option if a person can make that work.

Like I said, the most beneficial thing for me was being on campus totally immersed in the beer culture of Chicago and Munich. The Canadian beer scene is only just now starting to catch up to the U.S. so it was inspiring to experience some of the breweries and bars that have set the example for the changing beer culture here. Europe is also an incredible place to experience beer because of its unbroken traditions. I believe Weihenstephan holds the record for oldest commercial brewery at 1300 years old!

Just thought I'd post an update now that I have completed the Associate program classes. I have my "degree" coming in the mail as we speak. I'm now starting to look for a job. Let's hope that goes well. The final course is mostly on packaging. It spent a lot of time on European packaging machinery. I think there were 4 quizzes on bottle washer design and function, something that doesn't exist in any American brewery. There were some good sections on valves, pumps, canning, keg filling, and brewery design. These classes were the easiest of the 3 parts of the Associate program. I did about 80% of the quizzes in the last 4 weeks. Again this section had some good information and some good resources to fall back on in the future.

Overall I think I have previously stated my thoughts on the program and that hasn't changed. It's expensive but seems to be a necessary evil anymore. I think if you can swing the Master's program where you go to Germany or any other school where you get hands on training, that is a much better value, even if it is more expensive.

If anyone has any questions I'm happy to attempt to answer them. I know when I was thinking about investing in the Siebel courses there was not much information out there and it's a big decision. So if you are thinking about it and have more questions feel free to ask.

I'm definitely thinking about it, have you been able to find work at a brewery yet?