Too much candy sugar?

So I figured I'd try to add some sugar to my extract beer, and used this process to make some candy syrup.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f12/20-lb-sugar-jar-yeast-nutrient-114837/

Well, like any excited kid in the candy syrup store, I went overboard, and didn't do enough homework on what proportion of the grain bill would be allowable (much less appropriate for any given style).

So I wound up brewing something with 35% of the bill coming from candy syrup (Recipe to follow). I'm wondering if anyone would mind taking some shots at what flavors may come out of this batch. I'm guessing it'll be 1) terribly unbalanced, 2) Hot, Hot, Hot. The recipe is based on a Wit that I'm trying to hop a little more aggressively (and use the sugar to boost the ABV).

And by shots, I mean shots, I can always use a good laugh (but some reasonable guesses would be appreciated).

Grain Bill
1.75 lbs Bavarian Wheat DME
6 lbs Bavarian Wheat LME (10 min.)
4.25 lbs Light Amber Candy Syrup (10 min.)

Hops
1 oz French Strisselspalt 2% - 60 min.
.75 oz Amarillo 7.5% -45 min.
.75 oz Simcoe 12.2% - 10 min.
.25 oz Amarillo DRY
.25 oz Simcoe DRY

Additions
Corriander .7 oz - 10 min.
Bitter orange peel 1 oz - 1 min.

Yeast
Wyeast Belgian Wit (3944)
72 - 76% attenuation
2 quart starter (decanted)

SG = 1.063
TG = 1.015
FG = Been going high Krausen for a week.

Thanks in advance!

Woah. 4.25 lbs is quite a bit. I would let it sit in the bottles for a few months extra and see if the alcohol will mellow out. I would expect it to be (as you said) hot with alcohol flavor and probably pretty dry.

Yeah I'm kind of thinking along the lines of next christmas I might have something.

30% is pretty much the max you want to add in sugar. You are at 35% so, it may not be too bad. It'll be thin and dry tho'.

Dry for sure.

Cidery flavors are common when too much sugar is used.

I wonder about cidery notes, but I thought that was more a problem with uncooked sugar being too much of the grain bill.

It can be an issue but is most common with the old "kit and kilo" beers where you have 5 pounds of sugar and 3 pounds of malt extract and uncontrolled fermentation temps. Above 30% you delve into the realm of ciderbeer.

Sweet. Literally.

Is that for 5 gallons? Because I get an OG closer to 1.080. If you've managed to keep the fermentation temperature down, you shouldn't have too much trouble with hot alcohol. If you look at the fermentable sugars, you at over half candi. That means your attenuation will be much higher than you planned. I wouldn't be surprised if the FG comes in below 1.010.

Candi sugar is still in sucrose form, so I think the potential for cider flavors is there.

Is that for 5 gallons? Because I get an OG closer to 1.080. If you've managed to keep the fermentation temperature down, you shouldn't have too much trouble with hot alcohol. If you look at the fermentable sugars, you at over half candi. That means your attenuation will be much higher than you planned. I wouldn't be surprised if the FG comes in below 1.010.

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Yeah, it's 5 gallons. My planned OG was 1.065 assuming .75 efficiency for the DME (45 points) .7 for the LME (37 points) and .65 efficiency for the sugar (36 points).

The temp has been low 70's according to my brewmometer sticker, so probably somewhere in the mid 70's range?

I've been wondering about the amount of fermentable sugars in the extract (and accounting for it), but have yet to get to the actual research. Got any good links?

LME, DME and sugar should be calculated at 100% efficiency, since the sugars are already there, and don't require conversion from starch.

Candi sugar is still in sucrose form, so I think the potential for cider flavors is there.

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I'm still not totally clear on all the sugar, I was under the impression that the cooking process caused some sort of chemical breakdown resulting in a simpler form.

Dirtybeau said:

I'm still not totally clear on all the sugar, I was under the impression that the cooking process caused some sort of chemical breakdown resulting in a simpler form.

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that depends largely opn whether or not the producer inverted the sugar prior to carmelizing it. Many just cook the sucrose. Acid has to be present to break the bonds of the sugar chain to reduce to simpler sugars (glucose and fructose)

LME, DME and sugar should be calculated at 100% efficiency, since the sugars are already there, and don't require conversion from starch.

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So if I consistantly miss my target OG (on the low side) using 100% efficiency, do you have some advice on what I might be doing wrong?

Too much water. Not enough boil off. Striations with the top off.

Dirtybeau said:

So if I consistantly miss my target OG (on the low side) using 100% efficiency, do you have some advice on what I might be doing wrong?

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Either too much (or too little water), an inaccurate hydrometer, not having everything thoroughly mixed, or an inaccurate amount of ingredients.