How good is homebrew wine?

Hey all,

I realize that the only reason this forum exists is that people make wine at home, and they are happy about how it turns out. My question is -- how does it turn out? I'm not skeptical as much as curious. I know how awesome homebrew beer can turn out, but i just don't have any experience with homebrew wine except for a couple neighbors who made sickly-sweet fruit wine that I could barely drink.

I'll be more specific. I love big-bodied Cali reds (Cab Sauv., meritage-syle). I really like high-end Shiraz ($20-25+ or typically it is too sharp for me). I've had some great temperanillos and Montepulcianos recently. A spanish wine called Clio (from Jumilla) is probably the best wine I've ever had. How close to those various styles am I going to be able to get at home, without having to buy a vineyard? (I'm looking for a cost/benefit analysis -- how good is a $90 kit that I see at my LHBS vs. a custom recipe where the component ingredients cost more (or much more)?)

Sorry for the complete newbie question -- I probably have all or most of the required equipment, and I want some encouragement from y'all so that I can give it a shot with confidence.

I've not made any wine yet, however many neighbors are producing high quality wines. One of them has a license for commercial production and has moved to a warehouse for higher quantities of high end wines. So it can be done. Most however are going and buying grapes off the farms and crushing them (pick up truck beds filled). They might have started with kits but the feeling I get is they need the skins to get tannins and the process seems more involved than kit wine. Patience is also needed for the long wait!

You can make good wine at home and it is heaps of fun and can also save money though thats not really the point.

However;
I work in the vineyard at a winery that makes high end shiraz and I can tell you it is highly skilled and takes a lot of work and equipment. The most important thing is the quality of the grapes but the winemaking is very important as well. If this is your expectation of home wine making you will be disappointed. But if you aim to have a lot of fun, learn a lot and eventually produce a wine that will surprise your friends you should have a go.

while i have not ventured off into the reds as yet.. i have had good tasting notes in from many tasters of our Welch's White Grape fermented dry and barely sweetened. oaking is next with this recipe. a charrdonay lover commented that this taste and mouth feel was missing. I have had red wines made by friends that were just superb. cost effective?? hmm.. my white wines cost me around 5 to 8 a bottle. i use grocery store juices as i am in this for fun and enjoyment. I have a feeling that most winemakers are in for the fun and experience of the process ... oh and for the results.keep us posted on your progress

I've had very good results with the Winexpert Selection series (Estate, International, Limited). They do offer kits that include skins (crushendo) - I tried one, but didn't like the results.

On the dollar side, you'll need 30 bottles for each kit, corks and I highly recommend a stand corker (about $100). You'll also need a 7.8gal bucket for initial fermentation and a pair of 6gal carboys for secondary/clarification. So, you're looking at a couple hundred dollars to get going but once you have what you need, you're looking at a cost of about $3-$6/bottle depending on kit/cork choice.

The one thing I don't like about the kits is that they're not really that "creative". Put everything in a bucket, add a bit of water and some yeast. Then transfer a few times and add a few more things along the way to stabilize/clarify. Then bottle. With beer, it seems like there's a lot more room for creativity and experimentation - from recipe to process.

The stuff I have tried can be quite variable. There is a giant range of quality... Some folks want Alcoholic stuff to drink. Others compete for Awards and aim for the highest quality.

Just like Beer, wine is what you make of it.... Use high quality fully ripe grapes and fruit, carefully selected yeasts, and careful fermentation... and you get 1 product. Use unripe cardboardy tasting supermarket produce, miscellaneous old bread yeast out of the back of the cupboard, and brew it up in your dirty old trash can... and you get something different.

I think part of what you will find is that there is a whole lot of Fruit wine/country wine/local grape wine home brewing out there... because you really can't buy it in stores.... and because you have to figure out what to do with all the fruit you get off of trees and bushes and vines in your yard and the neighbors yards. If you like this stuff... Great. If you don't like wine made from stuff you can get locally cheap or free..... then making wine can get *VERY* expensive.

Then, for flavor. One of the final steps is "Sweeten to taste." Lots of people like sweet syrupy wine that tastes kinda like alcoholic fruit juice. They drink it ice cold and on ice. This is what they like... so this is what they make... kinda like how a whole lot of home brew beer is hopped to death... Those folks LOVE HOPS.. The more hops the better... and so the rest of the Beer may be incidental to their Hopped alcoholic beverage.

Now, consider this... How many supermarket Shiraz brands/varieties can you buy? Literally hundreds... and all of them slightly different. You may have a preference for 1 of those, but it still changes quite a bit with each vintage. When you brew a batch -- you are committed to that 1-gallon to 5+ gallons of whatever comes out.

Now... in your situation... I would get in contact with your local Home Brew Club. Find out if you can taste wines made by the members. You will like some, you will hate some.... Learn from the ones making wines you like... and if you don't like any of it... keep buying the stuff in a bottle that you do like!

Good luck

John

From the relatively brief time I've been in this hobby it reminds me a lot of my days in amateur radio, in that there are any number of ways to approach it. I imagine that a person can replicate or better most any commercial wine, and maybe even at less cost, just as in ham radio you can spend the dough and assemble an amazing station with the latest in digital gear. Whereas I used to have more fun collecting older rigs that everyone else had abandoned, giving them a little TLC, and extending their life a while longer. Similarly, in winemaking I'm having a blast finding my own approach, making small batches of tasty beverages using inexpensive ingredients, and creating my own recipes--finding what I like to make and drink, and share with friends. I'll bet somewhere between that Clio and the nauseating stuff from your neighbor there's a wine waiting for you to make it, that will be worth however much or little it costs because it's uniquely your creation. That's when this gets really fun....

I have made wines that were wonderful and I have made wines I have dumped out. Dont dump much any more, I haven gotten pretty good

Some of the best wines I have ever had were made at home. Owning a homebrew store has its perks (but not many) Customers bring me stuff, loads of stuff! Some good, some GREAT!! Others....... not so much
Jay

Home made wine can be just as good as commercial wine. I have made quite a few excellent batches over the years as well as many that were not top shelf worthy. I just received 4 medals at a competition that I submitted 5 wines to. Now you have to realize that I am an amatuer wine maker and the compitition was for amatuers, but many of the entries were very high quality wines, jusdged by competant individuals.

I have had some poor representations of wine that were commercially produced and I would never again pay money for that product. You get out what you put in with wine.

If you use a kit from WineExpert, Cellar Craft, or some other well known manufacturer and you follow the instructions closely, you will be rewarded with a quality wine worth your time.

Check out this site for more information and input: http://winepress.us/forums/index.php

Salute!

Thanks for all of these thoughtful posts, folks. This is definitely something I want to try! I was thinking about trying a small batch, but it sounds like starting with a high-quality kit and just making a whole batch is a better way to start -- fewer variables, fewer decisions to make. This one looks like a good one for me:

http://www.northernbrewer.com/winemaking/se-sonoma-valley-cabernet-sauvignon.html

Worst case scenario, I don't like it when I'm done. If so, I'll put it away for 6 - 12 months and taste it again. It'll be fun to give it a shot regardless.

peripatetic said:

http://www.northernbrewer.com/winemaking/se-sonoma-valley-cabernet-sauvignon.html

Worst case scenario, I don't like it when I'm done. If so, I'll put it away for 6 - 12 months and taste it again. It'll be fun to give it a shot regardless.

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The kit you linked will produce a great wine, especially if you are willing to sock it away for a full 12 months after bottling it. Commercial wineries don't sell you wine three months after primary fermentation, so it is a mistake to believe you can drink a young kit wine at home and still like it... You probably won't. That 2009 home made wine will be really good in 2011.

Saccharomyces said:

The kit you linked will produce a great wine, especially if you are willing to sock it away for a full 12 months after bottling it. Commercial wineries don't sell you wine three months after primary fermentation, so it is a mistake to believe you can drink a young kit wine at home and still like it... You probably won't. That 2009 home made wine will be really good in 2011.

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Oh, I'm definitely patient enough to wait. I've got all this homebrew beer to keep me going in the meantime!

I'll probably want to taste it from time to time, so question: can I just leave it in the fermenter the whole time, or do I have to bottle it after a certain amount of time? Thanks for the advice!

I am only 25 but I have been making wine with my dad since I was 12. At this point we harvest our own grapes use a crusher/de-stemer and a basket press and go from there.

Our wine typically compares to any wine in the $15 and lower cost. I have drunk some fairly expensive bottles after which I thought to myself that my home made is much better.

This is nice because I can splurge on some special wines and still have a lot of great table wine available. We always make a Cab. Franc and have made Riesling, Traminette, Rose of Cab. Franc, a hybrid called Melody that resembles Chard, late harvest wines, and I on occasion make a sweet foxy wine for my friends that like that style.

So I guess what I am saying is your first attempts may not be the best wine you have had, it took us a few years to come to this point. A lot of changes and advancing understanding of what makes wine good has brought us to this point.

This all being said I have never made a kit and I am assuming that brix level and acidity have already been adjusted so you are starting out with a good path to success.

If you have any questions about the process feel free to contact me.

Just take a stab at it...what's the worse that could happen? You have a great time doing it and have some homemade wine to enjoy in a few months time?

That's a quality kit and as was said you will need to let it age for it to mature and come into its own. But the beneifit of a quality kit is, if you follow the directions-and they are simple steps-you will end up with a wine you will enjoy.

I started making wine a year ago and every kit I have made so far I have been happy with the results. I have made a few whites that are really tasty now and some reds that are really starting to emerge. I just haven't seen a down side as yet.

Well shoot. I haven't really been that interested in making wine until JUST recently (mead has me seriously considering it) and now this thread really makes me want to get this

http://www.northernbrewer.com/winem...-new-zealand-marlborough-sauvignon-blanc.html

and give it a go. NZ SB is my favorite wine style (esp Marlborough region)... I have 2 books on hold at the library on winemaking that I'm going to go pick up tonight.

My point is - thanks for posting this thread. The responses have been encouraging and helpful.

Good book to look for:

Grapes in to Wine by Wagner

I've restricted my wine making to non-grape wines, but they have all turned out well. (Except for the hopwine, that is.) I'm motivated by wanting wines that are difficult to find. As an example, a dry blackberry wine. Commercial examples tend to be dessert wines. Commercial apple wines are more like Koolaid than wine, etc.

My friends make only wine and buy juice once a year locally in large volume. I went over to do some wine tasting and they were all awsome, better in some cases than stuff I brought at stores. I was very impressed, they really have it down.

david_42 said:

I've restricted my wine making to non-grape wines, but they have all turned out well. (Except for the hopwine, that is.) I'm motivated by wanting wines that are difficult to find. As an example, a dry blackberry wine. Commercial examples tend to be dessert wines. Commercial apple wines are more like Koolaid than wine, etc.

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Me too! (But no hopwine... I'll take your word for it!) Homebrewing grape wines and beer isn't as attractive to me, since I can walk a few blocks and pick from a whole variety that's already very good.

I also have some blackberry wine finishing up at a low temperature, and am looking forward to that one.
A windfall of feral asian pears wound up in some pear mead.
Apfelwein's just fun. It's quick and easy, it comes out pretty good, and you don't have to take it too seriously! Just hand a friend a beer bottle from the fridge, tell them it's apple wine, and it's a german thing.

I used to make wine many years ago that was maybe a step or two above hooch.
I just started a 6 gallon batch from a International selection Argentine Malbec. The three samples I have tasted are really good and I will be racking to a bright tank this weekend for around three weeks of clearing before bottling.
I am impressed with the quality of these new kits, all the ingredients are there to make a good wine with good instructions. While it may not be a world class wine, I would say your be able to make a very good 10-15 dollar bottle for around 3-5 dollars.
And hopefully I will be able to make it just the way I like it.

Im guessing your story will be something like mine.........
Tried a couple of kits, then realized that it really needs to age 1-2 years and the only way to keep a good selection of aged wines is to be constantly making it !
after 4 years, i now have 300 bottles in the rack and always have 8 carboys full and aging
ready to be bottled as space/bottles become available........ This works for us as me and my wife both drink wine and consume 1 bottle per day on average. Keeping the carboys full and aging was our best decision as we cant open a bottle to try it

I started making wine a year ago and every kit I have made so far I have been happy with the results. I have made a few whites that are really tasty now and some reds that are really starting to emerge. Some wineries charge by the glass, others charge a small admission fee and include the tasting in the fee, while others simply allow you a couple of tastes for free. Pardon That Vine He is very flexible as far as the structure of the event. I recently came across while surfing the net. I think you should try this.