Hanna vs Milwaukee or Other

I'm looking to get a pH meter in the range of $60-$120 and I would like some advice on the manufacturers. I have a couple meters in mind, and the pros and cons are close enough that I may base my decision on the reputation of the manufacturer (reliability, product life, service, etc).

Does anyone have input on the various manufacturers? Right now, I'm considering Milwaukee, Hanna, and HM but would be open to others.

Alright, maybe this will get the thread going. I'm down to the Milwaukee pH56, the Hanna Phep 5, or the HM Digital PH-200.

I was doing some reading on the 420 forums and people mention the Hanna as not being reliable. I have no idea how they treated the probes though. That's about all I found on all of the internets.

Any thoughts on the above models?

I do have one of the Hanna units which I bought just to see if it is possible to make an accurate meter and sell it at its price point. As such I have checked it out a couple of times to see how it compares to more expensive instruments and it compares well but then if you calibrate a pH meter so that it reads 4 in the 4 buffer and 7 in the 7 buffer it is going to measure the pH of anything in between accurately unless it has a really lousy A/D converter and less than accurate thermometer. I have not subjected it to the rigors of regular brewing practice.

I note that the Milwaukee unit is specified as having accuracy of 0.05 whereas the other 2 are at 0.02. Given that the only way I know to degrade a measurement based on ± 0.02 buffers to 0.05 is to have lots of measurement and/or quantizing noise I must assume that the Milwaukee is, relative to the other 2, deficient in these areas (and give them huge credit for being honest about it). 0.05 in probably more uncertainty than one wants in brewing so I would eliminate the Milwaukee unit on that basis.[/QUOTE]

Thanks AJ. That helps a lot. I figured +/-0.05 would be sufficient for mash pH, but I didn't plan on doing other things with it that require more accuracy (e.g. detecting autolysis). That said, I might as well just spring for a more expensive meter with better accuracy and maybe in the future I'll want to do that stuff.

Looking at the Hanna website, the Phep 5 is also accurate to 0.05, so I guess that one is out.

Down in the 0.01-0.02 range there is the Milwaukee MW102 , HM Digital PH-200, and the Hanna HI 98111.

My thoughts on these are:
Hanna HI98111:
This one has a pre-amplifier in the electrode to reduce noise. Therefore, when you replace the electrode, you also need to replace the other electronics as well. I'm not a big fan of that (since you have to throw away perfectly good electronics). It also makes a replacement probe ~$50, which pretty much eliminates it for me (unless someone feels strongly about it).

HM Digital PH-200:
At $80, this is the cheapest one in the 0.01-0.02 range that I was able to find. It almost seems to be too good to be true. This brand is also the one that I've heard the least about. With all that in mind, I'm not leaning towards this one.

Milwaukee MW-102:
This one comes with a separate temperature and pH probe, which I like. It allows me to take temperature measurements of my mash and other things without degrading the electrode. The temperature readings are probably more accurate than my floating thermometer. The pH electrode is also a BNC type, which is a good thing for replacement. From what I've read, I think Milwaukee seems like a reliable brand, but I'm not 100% sure. The meter is also accurate to 0.01 or 0.02 (I see conflicting information on their website). I'm leaning towards this one.

Any thoughts?

Just pulled the trigger on the MW102.

I'll be brewing with it next weekend, a pretty straightforward APA. Shouldn't have too much trouble hitting the right pH, but we'll see.

+1 Hanna Phep 5

This is an awesome meter.

I had the milwaukee and I had all kinds of issues:

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f11/buying-guide-ph-meter-127062/

Hope your luck with the milwaukee is better than mine was.

Here is a write-up that you may want to consider before setting on a pH meter: http://braukaiser.com/wiki/index.php/PH_Meter_Buying_Guide

I myself are very happy with the Milwaukee SM101 which I bought over a year ago and have been using for many experiments and batches of beer.

Kai

And I should mention - as I did in the other thread I posted - it could be I had a dud/lemon meter from milwaukee. But based on my experience I couldn't rec. them. I just personally had a really bad experience with one, and have owned the PHep 5 for over a year and it has been a steady performer.

Thanks to everyone for the help. I brewed the APA last weekend with the MW102 and so far I'm really happy with it. We'll see how it stands up over time.

I was also really happy with the pH I measured, thanks to all the people here including Kai for his research and papers, TH for his spreadsheet, and AJ for his knowledge. Based on the EZ 2.0 calculator, the pH was supposed to be 5.46 and I measured 5.39. Pretty damn close if you ask me. No acidulated malt needed.

I'm so happy now that I can actually close the loop on my water adjustments. Before I was just adjusting and hoping it came out alright. Now I can actually know if it did.

jescholler said:

I'm so happy now that I can actually close the loop on my water adjustments. Before I was just adjusting and hoping it came out alright. Now I can actually know if it did.

Click to expand...

That's the whole idea. It's a bit of extra work on brew day (most of which is the calibration exercise) but you will soon come to appreciate that your pH meter is as important a tool as your thermometer and hydrometer.

So now that we know you got a pH of 5.39 we'd love to know what got you there IOW what your water is like, what, if any, salts you added and what your grain bill looks like.

jescholler said:

Thanks to everyone for the help. Thanks to all the people here including Kai for his research and papers, TH for his spreadsheet, and AJ for his knowledge.

I'm so happy now that I can actually close the loop on my water adjustments. Before I was just adjusting and hoping it came out alright. Now I can actually know if it did.

Click to expand...

Well said, I second that thanks to all.

ajdelange said:

So now that we know you got a pH of 5.39 we'd love to know what got you there IOW what your water is like, what, if any, salts you added and what your grain bill looks like.

Click to expand...

Here it goes:
Grains
8.75 lbs Rahr 2-row 1.8L
0.9 lbs Gambrinus Munich 10L
5 oz Flaked barley 1.5L
0% crystal grains and 0% roasted grains (for the EZ 2.0 calculator); off topic, but did I assume properly that the Munich is not considered a crystal grain?

SRM: 4.9
Mash Temp 152F
Mash Thickness 1.2 qt/lb
Mash Water 3.0 gallons
Source Water Profile (ppm)
Ca: 1
Mg: 0
Na: 10
Cl: 6
Sulfate: 18
Alkalinity as CaCO3: 19

Adjustments (amounts given in grams, but measured in tsp)
Gypsum: 1g
Calcium Chloride: 3.4g
Epsom Salt: 2.25g

Adjusted Mash Profile (ppm)
Ca: 103
Mg: 19
Na: 10
Cl: 151
Sulfate: 145
Alkalinity as CaCO3: 19
RA: -65

It appears as though the rahr 2 - row gives a distilled water mash pH of 5.5, about .2 units lower than similar products. Just an FYI if you switch up brands.

That would explain how he got to 5.39 (which I thought quite low). The mineral content is enough to lower from distilled water pH by about 0.1 so if the DI mash is 5.5 the calcium drop would take us to 5.4. Conversely, the base malt I use 90% of the time (Weyermann's Pils) has a DI water mash pH of 5.75 while Maris Otter seems to go to 5.6. Those would result in mash pH's with this water of, respectively, 5.65 and 5.5 which is more in line with what I was expecting.

ajdelange said:

That would explain how he got to 5.39 (which I thought quite low). The mineral content is enough to lower from distilled water pH by about 0.1 so if the DI mash is 5.5 the calcium drop would take us to 5.4. Conversely, the base malt I use 90% of the time (Weyermann's Pils) has a DI water mash pH of 5.75 while Maris Otter seems to go to 5.6. Those would result in mash pH's with this water of, respectively, 5.65 and 5.5 which is more in line with what I was expecting.

Click to expand...

I've not used the Rahr but Kai and I think someone else measured it at 5.5.

What is odd is that it is not very highly kilned. Closer to Weyermann Pils than, say, Crisp Marris Otter.

I guess it's just another data point confirming that you can't rely on the color of the beer to predict the mash pH, even for pale beers.

Based on Kai's paper, I knew that the Rahr would produce a lower pH than predicted, which is why I held back the acidulated malt for this batch. In the future, it is good to know that my base malt can have an impact similar to my mineral additions. I'll need to keep that in mind for my stouts.

Does anyone know where I can find distilled water mash pH for more base grains? It looks like Kai's paper mentions the malts described above (pils, MO, and Rahr). I'd be looking to use something other than Rahr for my darker beers. I'll be doing a black IPA, so I don't think Maris Otter would fit the bill for that.

I have the pHep 5 but have only used it for maybe 6 batches and don't have anything to compare it to (except strips). I don't calibrate it everytime but I do check calibration every time, it's usually still good. Getting a stable (and I assume accurate) reading takes a little time, I just keep stirring and dunking it/shaking it off and it finally comes to a stop. If I just stick it in there it will quickly give me reading but if I then keep stirring/dunking/shaking it will end up a couple hundredths of a point lower. Always at room temp.

FWIW, Canada Malting's Pale 2-row and Superior Pale malts that I used yielded higher mash pH than most. The malt analysis sheet I got for the Superior Pale Ale showed all the numbers for each lot throughout the 2010 season. Mash pH steadily climbed throughout the season and peaked at just under 6.0 for the last lot (the lot I happened to get).