Ginger bug suggestions

This is my first time trying on a recipe for scratch. Have used kits and done some additions within them to get something I wanted out the beer. So, has anyone here tried to introduce a Ginger bug into their recipe? I'm thinking about trying it out on a farmhouse inspired beer. Let the two fermentators meet up, and duke it out for my pleasure.

so far I'm pondering for a 5 gallon
3 # cara pils or 2 row
3# white wheat
1, 2# of caramel wheat
8 oz flaked oat
4 oz flaked wheat
8 oz rye
1 # piloncillo sugar
fwh 1 oz summit
continual addition 60 min 1, 2 oz sterling
possibly a late lme addition, or not. Can't decide if this should be a sipper or a drinker.
5 min to flame out 1 oz northern brewer
This will probably get wyeast 3522, and it'll have a fº range of 72 - 82 to play in.
Here's where I'm pondering when. On pitch, add the ginger bug which I have been letting do it's own thing and partying it up a bit so the two meet and , and maybe do a second bug addition at secondary so they get some after hours action in.
The bug I'm using is started with 2, 3 tsp ginger root to 2, 3 tsp piloncillo to 8 oz water and additions made until fermentation is active. In total about 6, 8 oz ginger root with equal weight in sugar to 32 oz water.
And then once they cool out, get on the the dry hop (or not, might seem pointless.)
Warrior, and then centennial.
This be bottled, so I'm thinking it'll be honey or piloncillo sugar. About 4 oz either way.

Looks to be an est og of 1.05 and a 1.009 on the fg at about 5.5 abv with 90.6 ibu. That's a drinkable face blaster. Hmm. That oughta team up with the ginger buggery and make some gurners happy.
Curious what some of your thoughts are about the recipe. What might be too much or needs more of. What other yeast might be applicable and what knowledge people might have on introducing fermentations to one another.

thank you

i had to look up what "ginger bugs" were - they're lactobacillus.

your recipe above isn't going to work with lacto - you've got too many IBUs. lacto can't stand hops, that's one of the reasons hops are used in beer: to prevent spoilage from bugs like lacto. so you need to scale back the IBUs to like 10 or less. used aged hops, where most of the alpha acids have been degraded, is how lambic brewers do this. you can dry-hop once the lacto has done its thing, but i don't know if dry hop and lacto sourness work well together.

as to when to add the lacto: probably best after primary fermentation, since lacto doesn't like air and you'll likely be aerating your wort for the 3522.

sweetcell said:

i had to look up what "ginger bugs" were - they're lactobacillus.

your recipe above isn't going to work with lacto - you've got too many IBUs. lacto can't stand hops, that's one of the reasons hops are used in beer: to prevent spoilage from bugs like lacto. so you need to scale back the IBUs to like 10 or less. used aged hops, where most of the alpha acids have been degraded, is how lambic brewers do this. you can dry-hop once the lacto has done its thing, but i don't know if dry hop and lacto sourness work well together.

as to when to add the lacto: probably best after primary fermentation, since lacto doesn't like air and you'll likely be aerating your wort for the 3522.

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New Belgiums Le Terroir is incredible. Citra and amarillo dry hop. Odell footloose is a solid hoppy sour as well.

If you are dry hopping, just make sure to do it as close to packaging as possible.

Your grain bill is a little strange. I would simplify it.

3# carapils or two-row? 3# of carapils isnt really a substitute for 3# of 2-row base malt.
The cara wheat is probably pretty heavy as well.

nofootbreak said:

3# carapils or two-row? 3# of carapils isnt really a substitute for 3# of 2-row base malt.

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ha! i totally missed that.

indeed, you don't want 3 pounds of carapils. carapils is a crystal malt - a relatively tasteless one, but a crystal nonetheless.

Thanks. Will update, and also dry hop right before bottling.
I want more of the wheat and some rye bite coming in with the ginger. Keep a ginger presence through out. I like ting, or tradewinds. Ginger beer, but there's a lot more going on. I wouldn't impart it with ginger until secondary. As well, the ginger is being given its own time, and yeast to get on with.
Possibly be splitting off a gallon with ginger sage.

dunno yet.

Some Lactobacillus strains are not hop tolerant some are its a crap shoot when using unknown sources of possible lactobacillus. Getting wild yeast/bacteria off a piece of ginger is no where close to the same as using ginger beer plant. You may get some of the same stuff but I tried and it looked nothing like ginger beer plant nor did it sour.

What are you going for with the piloncillo sugar addition? Also what's the intended outcome of the small fractional pound quantities of the raw cereal grains?

At smokinghole.
At the base, (I guess) this is a (ginger wheat) farmhouse ale. But, also. Learning. I think there are mouth particulars the wheat can take up with the gingerosity and overall hop billing. Putting some rye in it as well. The fractional is to get a base.
GBP? My hopes are that I can get a ginger beer plant (or two) going with a little side project or two I have developing with an organic Hawaiian ginger at the moment, so that this level can be brought along for the ride. One is straight, the other has an organic sage. It's only a week on them. They are bubbling nicely and I have left them covered with cheesecloth to air and only recently pitched them with some safale s-04.
For both. I like the piloncillo, cos it's raw and base, and I can get it easily. Like the overall flavor addition and adds a nice color too.
For the gbp, I'll be trying another one with some (raw) honey subbed out over the piloncillo. perhaps with an addition of cider or champagne yeast.

With your ginger beers fermenting open you are going to have to worry about acetobacter and acetic acid production especially open to the air. The reason I asked about the small quantities of grain is because i doubt you'd notice them there or not in those very small quantities. When I make a beer with wheat or other cereal grains I use near 20% of the total grist weight. So I am thinking a few ounces here and there of different stuff will get lost, and not contribute much. The sugar will dry the beer out considerably. So if you are just going for a malt accented ginger beer thats fine. If you are going for a beer with ginger I think you risk a very thin dry beer with ginger spice. The GBP is likely a culture of various bacteria and wild yeasts. That will include acetobacter, lactobacillus, wild saccharomyces, and wild brettanomyces (ie not a purchased culture). Plus with you trying to get your own going you also might have Candida, kluveromyces and enterobacteria to deal with depending on the pH of your ginger beer side fermentations. With this mix of organisms you have super attenuation to consider, and sugar isn't helping your cause if you want to retain any body in the beer.

I am not trying to change your mind, instead I am trying to better inform you in case you did not already know what I mentioned. Brew it as is and see what happens.

Thank you on the knowledge.
Wondering, on the brew day recipe part. I am using about 4, 5 lbs of wheat in it. 3# white wheat, and about a pound or 2 of caramel wheat. It is only the flaked portions which are smaller. Should these flaked bits be ramped up. Not really going for noticing those in particular. It's that I want their ability to offer up a stage and get out of the way.
At the present, without the secondary addition of the gbp: It's about 9 lbs of grain versus about 1 lb of sugar. With the ginger addition on secondary, it's going to be about another 10 - 12 ounces which have been busily converting and doing their own thing and will be say 2, 3 weeks into it.

In a similar vein, I brewed this beer:
Ginger Wheat - Sour Edition

I was just going to brew a clean version, but when I was setting up I realized I didn't have a fermenter. So I transferred my Flanders Red out of it's bucket a bit early and pitched this right onto the cake.

It's been on there about 2 months and I took a sample, and it seems to be doing pretty well. The IBU's are a bit high, but I think it'll work out fine. The ginger really comes through and mixes well with the brett.

I definitely want to make the clean version of this as well to compare.