Sam Calagione on "Beer Geeks"

Most overrated brewery? - Beer Talk & Questions - BeerAdvocate

I am probably late to the party but, anyone over here read this?

I personally don't see the need for a man in his position to put down so many passionate beer drinkers the way he did here.

If he just had to say something (he shouldn't have IMO) after seeing all the negative comments, he should have just thanked all the posters for the info, and vowed to do all he could to change the way people seemed to think of his brewery as overrated.

Thoughts ?

I agree with him and the stance he's taking. Everyones pallette is different so you and I may not like the others favorite beers. Just because that holds true, doesnt mean your favorite sucks and mines better....its all a matter of personal opinion.

When I saw your link, all I could think was, "Uh oh...". It's rarely a good idea for a producer to respond directly to criticism, since it almost always looks petty and hostile. But, I think Sam was spot on here. It's all well and good to dislike certain beers, but the level of self-righteousness in that thread was incredibly tedious.

Its all too easy to hide behind a computer screen and ***** about minutia these days. The fact is that people are far more likely to get on their computer to complain about something than they are to praise something.

I agree with his argument, but I also think DFH is the most overrated beer I've ever had so I guess I'm clueless.

Much praise to Sam for his comments on all the haters out there. Simply put, if you don't like his beers then don't buy them or drink them. There are plent of other craft beer drinkers that love DFH beers and that will continue to buy them and believe in the way DFH brews and their business.

Opinions are like A$$H0LE$, everybody has one. Just seems like there are a lot more on BA...

maxam said:

Its all too easy to hide behind a computer screen and ***** about minutia these days. The fact is that people are far more likely to get on their computer to complain about something than they are to praise something.

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yea ... this is why I think he should have avoided the thread ... I like that he is online, probably even here, and reading our posts, but I think if he responds it should be overly nice ... he was sort of pissed and you could tell it ... he even cussed a little ... not good biz IMO

I thought he handled it quite well, didnt seem like he was taking it too personally. Stated some fact and didnt really try to get in a pissing match.

cadarnell said:

yea ... this is why I think he should have avoided the thread ... I like that he is online, probably even here, and reading our posts, but I think if he responds it should be overly nice ... he was sort of pissed and you could tell it ... he even cussed a little ... not good biz IMO

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I don't think a whole lot of people are going to base their decision on buying DFH on Sam's response in that thread.
He is absolutely correct in what he said.
He is doing what us homebrewers are doing but on a much larger scale and made a business out of it :rockin:. He makes what he likes to make. And that's pretty much the jist of his post. If people like it buy it, if they don't, don't. No big deal.
This is part of the reason why I stopped going to the BA forums. There's an elitist feel to everything. It's not cool to just bang on BMC anymore, now we have to bang on Craft Breweries, specific beers, etc.
If you like a beer buy it and drink it and have fun doing it.
If you're so bold, buy the ingredients, make it and drink it and have an absolute blast doing it.
But at the end of the day, it's just beer.

Cheers

Full disclosure: I like Dogfish and a lot of their beers. On the other hand, I've had a few of their beers clean the drain because I, personally, did not like them. Not to my taste or style.

But that's what I really don't get about people and beer. We all like different things and different styles. People rave about Dead Guy and Ruination. I hated both. Couldn't finish them.

But I say, hey, I didn't care for those beers. I don't say, those beers are overrated and terrible and anyone who disagrees is a moron. Stupid sheep being led by the hype.

If you like a beer I don't like, great, that means we aren't fighting over the last one in the cooler. No need to be an ass about it, and certainly no need to slam the company which is doing quite well and gas a ton of fans.

When he pulled his products out of my state because demand was to high and they could not supply it. I was bummed and said "Ok, I understand. I wish you the best."

Then I hear they are supplying growler filler stations inside gas stations and now think "good riddance". In all honesty I do not miss most of the products they make. Their beer line was very subjective and it was a love/hate thing per beer. Some were great and some were just nasty.

I have gone from fan, to just not caring. Not that I wish ill on him or his brew but he dug his own holes here.

I totally agree with Sam... I think Beer Advocate is quite silly. While Dogfish Head may not be my favorite brewery, I certainly appreciate the unique approach Sam and his team take toward beer. It's my opinion that most of the folks who post to Beer Advocate know little about beer, probably haven't been drinking it long, most likely have never made their own, but just want something to feel good about. Blah.

OP - thanks for sharing the link. I never go on BA, mostly because I like to taste beers for myself, and find my way to new beers based on experimental purchasing and opinions of friends.

I cringed when I heard Sam posted a response to an online thread, those normally do not go over well. But I did think his post was well written. (Probably edited by his PR team a few times.....) It was great to read his opinion, although truth be told, it was just a stupid internet debate that meant nothing and did not need a response.

I follow a beer blogger on Facebook and read about this yesterday. I did and and will not go to BA to check out the whole thing though.

My experience with that site is that it is total crap, worthless. Think about. We complain about the comments BJCP judges give in competitions! Why bother even reading what 200 regular people full of snobbiness are writing?

The best explanation I have ever seen regarding why the internet is so full of extremes is that the internet is just like the political primaries: only the super-invested, most vocal, loudest mouths will actually go out of their way to voice their opinions online (this includes us, yes I know!)

I just finished Brewing Up a Business, and I have to say I respect Sam a lot more after having heard his story. He is a very humble guy, worked extremely hard to get where he is (still does), and treats his business and his employees as an extension of his family. I'm not even the biggest fan of his beers, but I am a huge fan of his brewery. I personally would not have responded if I was him, but that's his business and he felt the need to do it. I just hope he continues to see success in his endeavors.

Native302 said:

Opinions are like A$$H0LE$, everybody has one. Just seems like there are a lot more on BA...

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which one, cuz I'd have to go with both.

Threads like that are exactly why I avoid BA like the plague. Too much arrogance. Sam handled that well. You'll notice the entire thread changed after his post. No one had the balls to tell him his beer sucks to his face.

DFH isn't my favorite brewery, although I do enjoy a few of their releases. I also enjoy a 90min or four once in awhile. They definitely make a number of beers that just don't jive with me, but their beers are inherently polarizing so that should be understood.

It should be pretty simple, if you don't like a beer, don't buy it. That's how capitalism works.

I love the beer review section of BA. Is there a better, broader beer review site?

The forum sucks.

On topic, I like Sam. Not a big fan of most of his beers, but I like what he's trying to do. Go craft go. His beers don't really fall into to many BJCP styles, so good luck "judging" them.

There's a store in Jersey I used to frequent, when I worked in Jersey, called Joe Canal's. They used to label their beer shelves with "90 out of 100 on BeerAdvocate" for a certian beer. I know it was an effort to help the people that don't know anything about the beer itself to buy it. I get that. But it's because of reviews/threads like this that make me value anything labeled as "BeerAdvocate thinks its great" even less.

half of their top rated beers are rated highly because they rare and hard to find. Nothing to do with if it tastes well or anything... You know, kind of the point of a review.

scottland said:

Threads like that are exactly why I avoid BA like the plague. Too much arrogance. Sam handled that well. You'll notice the entire thread changed after his post. No one had the balls to tell him his beer sucks to his face.

DFH isn't my favorite brewery, although I do enjoy a few of their releases. I also enjoy a 90min or four once in awhile. They definitely make a number of beers that just don't jive with me, but their beers are inherently polarizing so that should be understood.

It should be pretty simple, if you don't like a beer, don't buy it. That's how capitalism works.

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I did try to post, but BA shut down the thread .. I was just going to say to him what I said here tho ... just be nice if you are going to post here mr. calagione .. don't cuss at us and put us down. ... Afterall, we are at least talking about you .. any press is good press

passedpawn said:

I love the beer review section of BA. Is there a better, broader beer review site?

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the haughty, self-righteous reviews are what I abhor most about BA. I'm assuming you're joking

I agree with sam but couldnt he have just said everyone's palette is different and that one overrated brewery to you may be the most underrated brewery to others?

no need to get personal.

Tinga said:

I agree with sam but couldnt he have just said everyone's palette is different and that one overrated brewery to you may be the most underrated brewery to others?

no need to get personal.

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Except it was personal.

BA bashing on DFH as "over rated" is like the Queen accusing Parlaiment of being pretentious.

Rate Beer is no better. When I see a BA or RB "shelf talker" I choose something else because I know all too well what it means anymore.

Sam is spot on. I only go on those sites to get a description of what a beer is if I don't know. The reviews are horrific. People have different tastes.

For example, Jolly Pumpkin gets great reviews and a lot of people like their beer and their style. I have had one that I'd be willing to drink regularly. I don't piss on folks for having a different palate.

The most overhyped beer out there is BMC anyway. We all know it. We all know people who wear by XXXXXX LIGHT and any other light beer is crap. Yeah right. And XXXXXX light will get us chicks, and respect from our fellow manly men. :eyeroll:

Now THAT is overhype!

cadarnell said:

yea ... this is why I think he should have avoided the thread ... I like that he is online, probably even here, and reading our posts, but I think if he responds it should be overly nice ... he was sort of pissed and you could tell it ... he even cussed a little ... not good biz IMO

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I think people nowadays are a bunch of sissy's and need to grow some balls. I respect Sam and the way he handled that thread.

I love DFH and all they do... Just last month I had an opportunity to take a tour there.... Who cares right... I have taken several tours there, but this one was for homebrewers ONLY and Sam was the tour guide... After it was all done, you went for a tasting and then got to take home the DNA yeast they cultivated.. Delaware Native Ale to be more precise... Then all the employees had their kids there and Santa brought gifts for everyone...Old and young... lol... Sure, some of their beers are "off center", but he seems like a cool cat and whos cares what people think...

amc22 said:

I think people nowadays are a bunch of sissy's and need to grow some balls. I respect Sam and the way he handled that thread.

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+1 Sam's response was appropriate for the venue he was stating it in.

Homercidal said:

Sam is spot on. I only go on those sites to get a description of what a beer is if I don't know. The reviews are horrific. People have different tastes.

For example, Jolly Pumpkin gets great reviews and a lot of people like their beer and their style. I have had one that I'd be willing to drink regularly. I don't piss on folks for having a different palate.

The most overhyped beer out there is BMC anyway. We all know it. We all know people who wear by XXXXXX LIGHT and any other light beer is crap. Yeah right. And XXXXXX light will get us chicks, and respect from our fellow manly men. :eyeroll:

Now THAT is overhype!

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Fine, but I even appreciate BMC beer... uh huh. I don't understand the desire to bash even the big guys. I really don't understand the desire to laboriously construct a review and over-analyze a beer. Perhaps to make it look like one knows more, or has a "better palate" than others? Silliness.

Homercidal said:

Sam is spot on. I only go on those sites to get a description of what a beer is if I don't know. The reviews are horrific. People have different tastes.

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Well said. When craft beers are $10 per sixpack (or 4-pack...), I want to at least get a sense of what I'm buying beforehand. Reviews are horrific, sure, but skim a few and you get a sense for what to expect.

And +1 for Sam's response. It's one thing to say Ryobi is overrated because the batteries don't last and the tools break. For something as subjective as beer, that whole thread was ridiculous and Sam nailed it, tactfully.

And FWIW, I don't love his beers but have friends that swear by them. Brew what you like, drink what you like, don't be a tool.

Yes I agree, the majority being A$$H0LE$

dfess1 said:

which one, cuz I'd have to go with both.

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I'm personally not a big fan of DFH beers. They tend to be too sweet for me. I'm also not convinced that they ever dump *failed* experiments (not every experiment is going to be a success!).

With that said, I don't begrudge DFH (or Sam Adams) one iota of the success they've achieved. The beers aren't for me, but clearly a lot of people DO like them. And, I've got a tremendous amount of respect for all that both companies have done for our hobby and for the craft beer industry as a whole. Calagione sometimes comes across as a bit of a pompous ass (and Jim Koch is kind of like your weird, drunk uncle), but they both have been tremendous advocates for things that we all believe strongly in.

And, I respect that DFH is trying to push the envelope, trying some different things. One simple example, a beer that I like but a lot of others didn't, was their interpretation of a Berliner Weiss. They brought out an example of a pretty obscure style, something that's not easy to find and that a lot of people might never have encountered. I respect them for that.

So, yeah, I'm happy for whatever success (monetary, fame, whatever) their hard work has brought them.

And, it's always great to see the REAL snobs get smacked down.

I think that Sam was right on in his reply.

Also, read the entire thread. Their definition of "over-rated" seems to be more along the lines of "over-priced". Basically it seems like people decided that they would all go and start bashing every craft brewery they could in that thread, and Sam basically said, hey, just because you don't like it, doesn't mean it's ****. Really, going through that post, they list so many excellent breweries, it's really ridiculous. Someone needed to say something - I'm glad it was Sam.

thought sam was spot on, every body likes something a bit different, if you dont like a brewery buy from another one....simple....and if YOU think you can do better set up your own micro and take em on....

btw dfh is a sought after rareity this side of the pond....and a lot of the beers you regard as good british beer are derided over here....

the_bird said:

With that said, I don't begrudge DFH (or Sam Adams) one iota of the success they've achieved. The beers aren't for me, but clearly a lot of people DO like them. And, I've got a tremendous amount of respect for all that both companies have done for our hobby and for the craft beer industry as a whole.

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I'm quoting this because it deserves re-mentioning. I agree.

I remember Sam once said in response to Left hand's Brewmaster saying "Any monkey can throw 400 pounds of hops in a kettle" (paraphrasing) If there actually is a monkey somewhere running a brewery and that monkey is truly throwing 400 pounds of hops in a kettle and there is a town nearby that likes the monkey's beer and buys the beer, then the monkey's product has value and is worthy because people are willing to spend hard earned money to buy it. That's capitalism in a nut shell.

Or to summarize, just because the product doesn't suit your taste doesn't mean it's not a worthy product.

Im with sam. People will just say something sucks without saying why, and without having any real authority on the matter. For me I do not like Rogue Beers, all of them I have tried have a different bitter taste that I have not gotten from other beers and I just don’t like it. I do not think they are over rated or suck, I just do not like the taste of the beers I have had from them. That is the main issue I saw on that thread, people were just too eager to say "man this brewery sucks." Instead of I don’t like these beers because … Also I doubt seriously they have tried all of the beers that brewery makes. Like myself with Rogue I've had four from them, how in the world would this give me the authority to say Rogue sucks and is over rated?
I do believe the "Brewmasters" show cause a lot of people to start disliking DFH and say they were over rated. When you have a show like that you are going to get a lot of press and a lot of people are going to be hearing your name. (I'll admit I knew very little of DFH before that show, now I seek out their beers cause I like trying new stuff) When a name is out there like that people will expect everything made to be stellar, and that just not the case. Especially with DFH who does a ton of experimental stuff. I do not know of one single brewery in which I like all of their beers. People are too quick to relate success with selling out and being overrated.
An example I can related to as far as people being turned off to DFH because of “Brewmasters” is when "A River Runs Through It" got turned into a movie, I along with a lot of others I knew hated the brand Orvis (they supplied all the fly fishing gear for the movie). To me Orvis was the brand that made all these newbies who have never fly fished before infest my rivers! Now that I am more mature I realize this was a stupid train of thought and that Orvis turned a lot of people onto fly fishing and that has probably helped to save many a trout river

All of that said, I'll end with a quote from The Dude, "Yeah, well, thats just like your opinion, man."

amc22 said:

I think people nowadays are a bunch of sissy's and need to grow some balls. I respect Sam and the way he handled that thread.

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I wouldn't totally disagree with that, but I will say this ... if I am in the business of selling beer and I am talking to a bunch of very passionate beer drinkers, I am coming off very humble, nice and overly considerate of ALL of their opinions ..

The truth is some people in that feed are pretty smart, some are average and some maybe a little less than all that ... some have college degrees and some never finished high school ... and throw on top of that some of them are a little drunk ... why would you as a good business man even comment there ?? ... and then go on to put people down for stating opinions as to what breweries are overrated ??

just seemed odd to me that he showed up in the comments .. maybe he was a little drunk .. ... but once again ... I do think it's knid of cool that he reads them.

cadarnell said:

I wouldn't totally disagree with that, but I will say this ... if I am in the business of selling beer and I am talking to a bunch of very passionate beer drinkers, I am coming off very humble, nice and overly considerate of ALL of their opinions ..

The truth is some people in that feed are pretty smart, some are average and some maybe a little less than all that ... some have college degrees and some never finished high school ... and throw on top of that some of them are a little drunk ... why would you as a good business man even comment there ?? ... and then go on to put people down for stating opinions as to what breweries are overrated ??

just seemed odd to me that he showed up in the comments .. maybe he was a little drunk .. ... but once again ... I do think it's knid of cool that he reads them.

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Perhaps he's more than just a "good business man," but a normal affective person. I like his response. It makes me want to drink more DFH beers