DOH !! - First Brew

Update #5

Nevermind..!

Fermentation is close to ending (No movement from the vent.. and when you look into the beer you still see some bubbles, but not a lot of activity)

Pulled from the tap enough for the hydrometer

SG - 1.018 or 4.7% ABV

The beer was remarkably clear in the tube, and to add to that had a nice head on it already..
(Should I be concerned with too much sugar in bottling?)

The fermented Wort at day 6 SEEMS to really require NOTHING but bottling at this point. I tasted the sample.. other than being a tad flat tasting (Although it did seem to have a wonderfully dense but at the same time light head)

Very Malty, with wonderful chocolate and coffee flavor. The slightest aroma and moderate flavor of Vanilla.. light on hops, but sweetness can best be described as that of having a spoon of sugar in your coffee. Literally so light on hops, that they are there to do the job and not affect flavor..

It was absolutely one of the smoothest beers I have had in a long time.. !! And its not done yet

My thought is to go ahead and put it in the secondary (IF the SG is the same tomorrow) and then immediately cold crash it for a few days, then go to bottle.

I can't believe as much as I really "screwed up" that its almost EXACTLY what I was striving for.. I am a bit concerned that beginners luck, will haunt my next few batches

I know it seems hard but waiting at least 2 weeks will make a better beer. Most people wait at least 3 weeks, the yeast still have work to do.

Its going to be even harder when the "green" beer tastes so damn good..

So are you saying its too soon to bottle condition and I should wait two weeks or would that be fine now..?


Depending on how you read the directions it either says to bottle after 6 days and condition for 2 weeks.

OR secondary (after 5-7 days) for two weeks and then bottle condition for 2 weeks.


I was thinking cold crash secondary in fridge for 3 days and then bottle condition for 2 weeks.

BTW.. I love our local craft brewer ( Legend Brewing in Richmond, VA ) but I am REALLY pissed at them right now.

Perfect bottles to reuse, but the labels are cheaper paper labels that I am having to scrape off..

The Sarnac and Brickenridge labels just pulled off

That was after sitting in a tub of hot water for an hour.. Scraped them all of and they are getting a second soaking to get the glue off.. what a PIA

Of course 2/3 of my bottles were Legend.. :smack:

Wait, it will turn colors the next two weeks as the yeast clean up, 3 weeks is the standard time in the carboy, your choice if you want to move into a secondary. I, as many others only use one fermentor. To take the lables off you can soak in hot oxyclean or PBW; or run the dishwasher on steam cycle for 20min, then peal them off quick before they cool.

OH.. but the patience I will have to have.

Secondary is primarily so I can have the primary back for round 2

As for labels.. I am keenly aware of how they SHOULD come off.. and all my bottles BUT the Legends came off that way.

The Legend Brewery's label decinigrated into little pieces.. they would not come off in one piece.. thus the scrapping..

Wife is against using the dishwasher until they are clean enough for the sanitation cycle.. she doesn't want me damaging the dishwasher, and no amount of telling her I won't will let me put in bottles with any trace of glue or label.. So manually with a scrubber and hot water tub is best I will do. Half way there now.

One last thing.. IF I deem the brew is not only drinkable but rather good.. how long would I need to wait to go and bottle. I understand the "waiting" for a brew to mature and get better. But what if I like it the way it is.. and all I think it needs is to carbonate?

The key is that I have made more than a number of mistakes on the brewing of it, that it may have accelerated or changes other aspect of the "normal" brewing cycle.

Just curious is all as it came so perfect out of the fermenter. That and I have the patience of a ADHD Monkey on Meth.

I drank my first brew after only a week, it's like a rite of passage. I give a little warning, yeast is a laxative. Their is no beer police, go for it!!!

Actually their is beer police the department of ABC, but that is not my point. Get your next batch going as soon as possible. Try a (Brew In A Bag) BIAB.

mikescooling said:

I drank my first brew after only a week, it's like a rite of passage. I give a little warning, yeast is a laxative. Their is no beer police, go for it!!!

Click to expand...

I had thought about the fact it could make one "gassy"...

Hadn't thought about THOSE consequences though..

Thanks for the heads up

Maybe it will get a few more weeks..

I've noticed a few of my craft brew bottles are hard to de-label. Goo gone works wonders.

freisste said:

I've noticed a few of my craft brew bottles are hard to de-label. Goo gone works wonders.

Click to expand...

Well after scrapping all the labels off, I have decided to let them soak for another complete day is fresh water. Hopefully the glue will come off that way.

If not then other methods will be tried.

I have learned saving a few bucks on bottles, not necessarily worth it.. I think I will buy the bottles I need next time

Some things are just false economy.

BTW.. speaking of the other issue. Could I go ahead and bottle and just leave it to condition in the bottle longer..? Would that take care of the yeast..?

CDGoin said:

Well after scrapping all the labels off, I have decided to let them soak for another complete day is fresh water. Hopefully the glue will come off that way.

If not then other methods will be tried.

I have learned saving a few bucks on bottles, not necessarily worth it.. I think I will by the bottles I need next time

Some things are just false economy.

BTW.. speaking of the other issue. Could I go ahead and bottle and just leave it to condition in the bottle longer..? Would that take care of the yeast..?

Click to expand...

1). If you wan glue and labels to come off easy, soak overnight in a batch of PBW. If you don't use PBW as your cleanser, oxyclean works just a well.

2). Nothing wrong with buying bottles, but oxyclean and PBW are cheap ... And the overnight soak will also do wonders for getting them clean.

3). If you have a stable gravity, you can bottle. Most beers will be just fine with bottle conditioning as opposed to bulk conditioning.

Update #7

Last for a while.. I think.

Again sampled with the Hydrometer.. and for the last three days (Tested Friday-Sunday) has been steady at 1.020 (Right on the recipe)

Sampled the almost final product, and again no real difference from last time (Other than it is getting a tad flatter.. as I would expect)

In secondary.. poured quite clean out of fermentor. Through the clear 1/2" transfer tube it looked like a clear and good quality beer actually.

I know others say wait it will get better.. but to be honest.. I don't think it could get much better. Also read where it seems Ports and Stouts age sooner than others as well, so that maybe part of it. Not to mention other things that may have affected age and flavor (My mistakes)

Long story short.. I am following the Brewers Best timing on this beer from the recipe.

So I expect to bottle in a week and then give those 2 weeks.

That said, I think the next beer up will be a Martzen / Octoberfest style.. that one I expect to take longer and go more by the HBT "Rules of thumb", and I will have more patience with.

One question.. Being that I am going to bottle a little young, should I use less or more priming sugar? or just get those priming tablets for more control per bottle ?

CDGoin said:

One question.. Being that I am going to bottle a little young, should I use less or more priming sugar? or just get those priming tablets for more control per bottle ?

Click to expand...

Assuming you have reached FG, don't change the amount of priming sugar you use. And if you aren't at FG, DON'T BOTTLE.

As for the tablets, I would batch prime (personally). However, the tablets wouldn't exist if they weren't at least a decent product, so if that's the path you choose, it shouldn't be a big issue.

Thanks.. I plan on taking one more FG reading before I bottle. To be sure.

Now the question is if my FG IS lower than it was the last 3 days after going through the cold crash.. can I restart fermentation in the secondary by just warming it back up..? What are the pluses and minuses of doing that ? Other than creating bottle bombs.

Hey CD,

You should come to the local homebrew club (James River Home Brewers) meetings. They are on the second Wednesday of the month at Mekong on Broad Street. This month's meeting is this Wednesday. There are a lot of experienced brewers there and it's great to talk with them and taste everyone's beers.
Check it out!

Will do.. ! (If not bottling )

BTW is it just me or are Legends labels a PIA to get off

Update #8

Went ahead and bottled early, as the FG was steady after the cold crash.

Day 1 - 1.020
Day 2 - 1.020
Day 3 - 1.018 <<-- This confused me.. But I THINK I used a different hydrometer on this measure.
Day 4 - 1.020


I think one of the numbers I real along the line may have been off or I used the other hydrometer I have and since they have nothing but a piece of paper in them to read.. one could be a little different than the other. My FG was 1.020

Since I didn't have a bottling bucket to mix the priming sugar in, I racked to the cleaned up primary and used it to bottle. Won't be doing that again. Let's suffice it to say I lost at least 2 bottles in the process. Anyway.. got 42 beers out of my batch.

Tasted a bit watery and lost some of its flavor.. but think that had more to do with the yeast mixing back into the suspension, and the priming sugar than anything else. I will wait 3 weeks and return to see how I did.. thinking of doing an Oktoberfest next.. Great thing about homebrewing is being able to do those seasonals you love when they are out of season.

Not sure right now.. after bottling for the first time, I am defiantly looking hard at either larger bottles, or a keg for the next batch.

OH and BTW.. Thank you Billy Mays.. Oxyclean in hot water got the goo and other stuff off the bottles in a hour. These were bottles I had soaking in plain water and detergent for 2 days and nothing seemed to get the goo to soften. Thinking Oxyclean needs to start being added to the list of can't do without home items. I.E: Duct Tape, WD-40, Coat Hanger, Pliers, Flat Screw Driver, Phillips Screwdriver, Oxyclean.

CDGoin said:

Update #8

Went ahead and bottled early, as the FG was steady after the cold crash.

Day 1 - 1.020
Day 2 - 1.020
Day 3 - 1.018 <<-- This confused me.. But I THINK I used a different hydrometer on this measure.
Day 4 - 1.020

Click to expand...

The "off" reading was probably a different temperature than the other 3 readings. Remember, hydrometer readings vary with temperature. Also, if you think that your hydrometers do not "agree" with each other, then check them in plain water. A hydrometer should read 1.000 in water, at the temperature the hydrometer is calibrated for

Yep.. surprise surprise.. one reads .02 off from the other.

Went to the LHBS and got me a new one.. that I can trust.

It was also better quality too that the ones that came in the kit I was given.

Well here we are on week two..

One week after an early bottling just to get the batch out of the way.

Being a GREEN Beer I don't have a lot of expectations, but being I wanted to know whether my impatience killed this batch and if was even going to be drinkable, or potentially explosive I opened one of the more filled bottles. Gives to reason if I have a bottle bomb in the making it would be the one with less airspace.

So my review of the GoinBräu - Pond Water Stout

Opened with a pleasant "Pist" nothing major

Poured well, and had a nice 1/4 head on it..

Well.. it was drinkable. I have had worse.

• Slightly acidic note and flavor
• Slight wateriness to the body
• Not overly sweet
• Could barely note the vanilla (mainly in the aroma)
• Not being a hop head, I can even say there weren't quite enough
• Carbonation was light
• A touch on the sour side
• Overall had the texture and flavor of pond water (Not the bad kind.. like a clean pond you would swim in.. not a scummy one)
• VERY cloudy, almost like coffee with a touch of creamer

That all said.. its two weeks old and it was actually better than expected.

So while I think it will never be great beer, and doubt seriously it will be "good" beer, almost assuredly it will be drinkable beer.

But I think I can make one change to this beer that will make it the best beer in the world to my 21 year old son and his friends.

It will be Free beer.

This is a stout and you admit to bottling it early and now you are sampling it early too (I do that too) but you are proclaiming it to be drinkable but not good. OK, quit drinking it. Let it sit in the bottles for another 6 weeks and sample it again. I'm betting there will be some major changes in the flavor and body.

Me too.. but considering the cloudiness, it being my first batch, and the fact I think I screwed up on about 6 major points.

I think drinkable at 2 weeks is good

But yea I expect it to be a lot better in a few weeks. Main thing I was looking for was clarity, and carbonization.

I knew it wouldn't be to terribly great at this point.

The hydrometer sample from the 10th day was awesome.. I hope to get back to that body and flavor.

In the meantime.. I am on day 7 of the 2-3 weeks primary for my Oktoberfest everything with it is going quite well.

Figure when it goes to secondary, I may have to go ahead and make a third batch.. just to keep me occupied and not focused on my Oktoberfest sooner than later I will start getting to drink some of this home brew after its been properly aged.

CDGoin said:

Me too.. but considering the cloudiness, it being my first batch, and the fact I think I screwed up on about 6 major points.

I think drinkable at 2 weeks is good

But yea I expect it to be a lot better in a few weeks. Main thing I was looking for was clarity, and carbonization.

I knew it wouldn't be to terribly great at this point.

The hydrometer sample from the 10th day was awesome.. I hope to get back to that body and flavor.

In the meantime.. I am on day 7 of the 2-3 weeks primary for my Oktoberfest everything with it is going quite well.

Figure when it goes to secondary, I may have to go ahead and make a third batch.. just to keep me occupied and not focused on my Oktoberfest sooner than later I will start getting to drink some of this home brew after its been properly aged.

Click to expand...

Are you really going to wait that long to start your third batch? You know from sampling early that you can make beer, now get enough going that you have something to do while the beers get good.

RM-MN said:

Are you really going to wait that long to start your third batch? You know from sampling early that you can make beer, now get enough going that you have something to do while the beers get good.

Click to expand...

While very tempting would require more money in equipment and then there is the kits.. (Until I get my Mash-tun built and try my hand at All -Grain)

Right now I am getting this:



and one of these..




I plan on getting 9 more and just conditioning the brew in these 2L Growlers.

(BTW soon a tech tip on an innovative pump to work with the 2L SS Growler to make turn them into portable mini-mini-kegs )

There's some excellent advice above.

#1 - Remove your grains, then boil. I'm surprised your bag didn't melt to the bottom of the pot
Im no expert but I think you infused tannins into your beer. You either added something you wont like, or maybe discovered the best beer ever. Let us know either way.

#2 - Your OG is fine

#3 - Buy a bigger pot

#4 - Research the IBU's of beer you like and build off that. You have increased the hop aroma and flavor in your beer by adjusting your hop schedule. I always brew a recipe stock first time to see what it's like. Sometimes I think I wont like something, and want to change it, only for it to come out great. Its hard not to eff with stuff. I got all crazy at the start with adding extract to mashes and hops ontop of a hopped kit etc and came up with some tasty, but overly powered beers. I actually went back to some kits and just did them stock to see what I missed. In some cases stock was better (Muntons Midas Touch Gold Ale) and some were worse (Coopers Draught). I logged 60 batches in the past year. About 75% of them AG.

Yea.. the grains F up was the biggie..

Already got a new 7 gallon pot, but found it a bit big.. my mom has an older 6 gallon brew pot (She collects kitchen equipment and junk) that I think will work fantastic.. can't wait to try it out.

Thanks for the tips on IBUs, still trying to figure out exactly what they are to my taste buds.. but think I have a good feel for it. I am going to try to hold myself back and do a stock recipe next time. That said, I said that last time..

Funny. I had a 5 gal and at the time I was like "Holy #$%^ this is huge!". I now have a 15 gal and look at my 5'er and it's a pea shooter!

It's hard not to mess around with recipes. Make one stock and then make one the way you want and do a compare? Just do 2 2.5 gal batches or something.

IMO one of the most satisfying hops to use in my Ales is East Kent Goldings or Fuggles. Especially if you are using Maris Otter malt.

When it comes to ipa's... The "C" hops come out... Citra... Centennial, Chinook, Cascade .... etc (This is just my taste though)

Amarillo is a nice hop too for NA ales.

The 7 wasnt as big as it was the place to put it was small.. I have a microwave over the stove.. so height is limited.

Once I get more room in my garage, I am sure a burner (and maybe larger pots) will be on order.

CDGoin said:

The 7 wasnt as big as it was the place to put it was small.. I have a microwave over the stove.. so height is limited.

Once I get more room in my garage, I am sure a burner (and maybe larger pots) will be on order.

Click to expand...

Yeah, thats it. I started off doing everything indoors. Now the only thing I do indoors is pour a pint before heading to the garage to brew. AG Brewing is not something I like to do indoors.

CDGoin said:

Yea.. the grains F up was the biggie..

Already got a new 7 gallon pot, but found it a bit big.. my mom has an older 6 gallon brew pot (She collects kitchen equipment and junk) that I think will work fantastic.. can't wait to try it out.

Thanks for the tips on IBUs, still trying to figure out exactly what they are to my taste buds.. but think I have a good feel for it. I am going to try to hold myself back and do a stock recipe next time. That said, I said that last time..

Click to expand...

Get a brewers best kit for a style that you like and follow the instructions/recipe with regards to hopping. OR think of a beer that you like and look for clone recipes and follow them. This is going to be the best way to determine how you feel about bitterness in a specific style. Then next time if there was something that you didn't like (too bitter, too much hop flavor, too much hop aroma) you can adjust.

Boil longer for bitterness.
boil 20-5 minutes for flavor (some bitterness contribution).
boil 5 to 0 minutes for aroma (almost no bitterness contribution).

OK.. first bottle out of the frig.

Its good !!

Good:

1) Subtle smells of Dark Chocolate and Vanilla

2) Very Malty hit to the tongue (Can taste the over cooked grain.. that's for sure.. but in a pumpernickel way.. if this were bread it would definitely be pumpernickel)

3) Nice carbonation.. a bit mild, but gives that nice sharpness to it.

4) Lots of vanilla.. (Wonder why).. but again not in a terribly bad way. I can see doing half the beans in the boil like I did and then the 2 beans or so in the secondary. While a lot of vanilla is there, its also not in your face.. probably due to the strong malty flavor from the grains.

No "Off flavors" that I can tell (Other than what I know where they came from, see above).

Overall very happy with it.. and if a few survive for a few more weeks who knows if it will get even better. Good thing is that its good enough right now I may drink it all before it "gets better".

On negative.. slight burps bring back a very almost hoppy flavor.

Overall compared to Duck-Rabbits Milk Stout, its a bit sharper, more vanilla, a little more malty and a bit less body.

For a beer that's only 22 days old (1 week fermentor, 2 weeks bottles) it could be worse.. and as others have noted, at 21 days its a little early to be drinking it.

To which my reply is : "If its drinkable and tastes good.. why should I wait ??"

No seriously.. any reason ? Other than the beer will probably get better.

No seriously.. any reason ? Other than the beer will probably get better.

Click to expand...

Not just better but much better. It takes much more than 21 days for a stout to ferment out, get properly carbonated and mature into a fine beer. Have your wife hide some of those for another 2 months and then sample those and ask yourself why you drank so many that weren't ready. It really will get much better.

RM-MN said:

Not just better but much better. It takes much more than 21 days for a stout to ferment out, get properly carbonated and mature into a fine beer. Have your wife hide some of those for another 2 months and then sample those and ask yourself why you drank so many that weren't ready. It really will get much better.

Click to expand...

Well I know WHY..

But think I will leave a few 6 packs in the fridge.. got another 2 weeks till the monthly HB Club meeting..

I am also noticing a bit of inconsistency.. so will let whats left of the batch age a bit. Guess I will just have to go to the local beer store and get something to tide me over.

AT least now if I need to RDWHAHB I CAN

Well.. the 1st batch was a success !! Consistency over the 3 six packs I drank wasn't too bad.. lots of what I am sure others will describe as "Off-flavors". But it is beer and it is drinkable.. and good enough one could argue it tastes just like I wanted it too.. All I know I would rather drink this Home Brew than any BMC..

Doing my 3rd (and probably last Extract) batch.. ( 2nd is an Oktoberfest I Infused with an extra 2 lbs of honey and have it lagering in the fridge now.. )

This one is a Russian Imperial Stout.. and day 2 the Krausen is just beautiful.. nice brown tips of yeast on top of a 1-1/2" tall head.. and its only at about the 18 hour mark..

Well.. may have spoke too soon.. Possible Infection (Doubtful).

I think although I was told aging will make it get better.

Have to say.. apparently not always the case..

The grainy flavor from overcooking the grains, is starting to come a LOT more forward, and even a touch more sourness has started to appear.

Opens random ones from the stash, and 95% the same across the board.

Oh well..

If I read prior post correctly, you are about 4 weeks from brewing this, correct? It still isn't ready. Some of my stouts and porters changed drastically from week 4 to week 10. Try hiding the rest of this batch (if you have any left) and give it the time it needs.

OH after the first night I was getting 2-3 a night.. but noticed all of a sudden they went bad.. Not sure if it was teh extended time in the fridge or what.

So I have taken them out of the fridge and back into storage. I have a local brew group meeting next Wed I wanted to take some too..

I'll leave them be for now, and let them age.. hopefully they will get better.

Would it be a bad idea to shake them all, to maybe get the yeast active again.. if there is anything for them to do that is.

I'm wondering if the "good" ones weren't the first part of the bottling when things were going well.. and the were later in the bottling. Because later in the bottling it got messy and I can see them possibly getting infected then (Dogs got let in, wand and hose started to leak..) it wasn't fun. Letting them age definitely isn't going to hurt, so for the time being I forget them in the garage somewhere while my better batches brew..