Closed-system pressurized fermentation technique!

Homebrew Talk - Beer, Wine, Mead, & Cider Brewing Discussion Forum

Help Support Homebrew Talk - Beer, Wine, Mead, & Cider Brewing Discussion Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.

What do you guys think about pressure fermentations? Time for a poll.

  • I've done it and I liked it just fine!

  • I've done it, nothing wrong with it, but prefer normal fermentation techniques.

  • I've done it, hate it, and never will do it again!

  • I've never done it, but it is on my list!

  • I've never done anything. I only brew beer in my mind.

Results are only viewable after voting.
I found thanks to a nice fellow at Hy Power in Western Canada have these Canadian Spunding Valve Parts

V07-200-NNKA Norgren - ¼” n.p.t. ports, adjustable from 5 to 100 psi

18-013-203 pressure gauge for above relief

Hope this helps someone to find parts.
 
This is great! I have a spare sanke available that I'm getting ready to use for this. One question for sanke users, are you using the original spiral snap ring or a replacement from mcmastercarr?

I have the keg & dip tube, but can't find the ring. It looks like there are a few possibilities for replacement, but I'm not sure about the reliability of a different kind of snap ring vs. the original.

Thanks.
 
It would be beneficial if we could get a wiki entry for the serving/filtration portion of the pressure fermentation process. I'm sure a lot of guys (myself included) are wondering how they get their beer that's finished and carbonated, transferred from the fermentation vessel to the serving keg without transferring half a yeast cake. :)
 
GNBrews said:
Bulldog - Some guys have had problems with the snap ring. Unless your diptube o-ring is in perfect shape, the snap ring isn't thick enough to compress everything together as well as it should. The original spiral rings are available from McMaster (http://www.mcmaster.com/#92370a251/)

Edit: Info on spiral ring installation: https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f35/installing-retaining-ring-sanke-keg-64128/
Click to expand...

Perfect, thanks! I found a link to them on grainger as well, but would prefer mcmaster.
 
I recently tried the closed-system pressurized fermentation technique outlined in this thread. I didn't have a Sanke keg big enough to ferment my 5.5gal batch, so I instead split the batch between two cornies and tee'd the spunding valve to both.

My problem comes in that there is a yeast cake on the bottom of one of the corny fermenters that is plugging my dip tube and/or poppet valve. I had intended to counter-pressure transfer the beer through a filter to the serving keg, but with the dip tube clogged, there's no way to empty that fermenter under pressure.

So... I've decided that I need to rack the beer to the serving keg. The problem is that the beer is carbonated with ~2vol of CO2. Attempts at using my autosiphon fail because the beer offgasses enough to break the siphon during transfer.

Any tips/tricks to making this work? Would using larger tubing and no autosiphon be less likely to break siphon? How can I keep the CO2 from coming out of solution, or do I have to decarb completely?
 
Is the diptube clogged or the poppet? If its the poppet, you can depressurize, remove keg poppet as well as the poppet in your liquid QD, and then recharge with C02 and transfer that way. Just make sure you depressurize again before you pop the QD off or youll get a krausen shower.

I find that you almost have to keep all hops out of the fermenter or else you will get clogged diptubes. Usually trub and yeast will get passed the poppets and be pulled through in the first cup or so of transfer.

If its the diptube, I would suggest depressurizing, unclog and either try again or cut the diptube to be above the trub.
 
In all honesty, I'm not sure. One of the kegs dispenses fine, albeit with a bunch of yeast coming over. The other dispensed about 4oz, then just stopped.
 
GNBrews said:
Bulldog - Some guys have had problems with the snap ring. Unless your diptube o-ring is in perfect shape, the snap ring isn't thick enough to compress everything together as well as it should. The original spiral rings are available from McMaster (http://www.mcmaster.com/#92370a251/)

Edit: Info on spiral ring installation: https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f35/installing-retaining-ring-sanke-keg-64128/
Click to expand...

I measured, but want to verify that the rings are 2 1/4", is that right?
 
Id stick to the Sanke snap rings if I were you! I have heard nothing about the standard ones, except they are harder to get in and out. The C-style rings... well I hear they are pretty easy to get in and out, but also have a tendency to leak gas. I'd rather learn how to properly use the standard equipment and not have the potential headache of my CO2 bottle emptying in my kegerator. It takes me a second to remove a ring I put on. Takes me about 10 seconds with a brewery applied ring. Putting them in is the time consuming part, and that is simplified with practice. Little trick, make sure the end of the spring you will be pulling out next time lines up with a keyhole. This makes it simple to get your blade/screwdriver under and then turn your wrist to remove the ring. EASY!!!!!
 
GNBrews, I bet you have something other than yeast in your dip-tube/poppet. You could try to gas in the beer out port and then give it time to settle. then give it another try at transfer. Might save you from having to open your keg.
 
I've been thinking about trying this, but I'm having trouble figuring out the parts needed for the modified tap. I have a variety of kegs that I use to ferment in, and currently one Sanke tap that I can modify, and have a source for another.

Is there a parts list anywhere, with links? This thread is getting long, and wading through looking for parts is taking way too much time.

Thanks.
 
Here ya go, from the links in the very first post of this thread. Basically, one you find a threaded tail piece that fits under your gas-side beer nut, whatever you can find that fits that tail piece will work. Just make sure you have a pressure gauge and a adjustable back-pressure relief valve of your choice.
 
WortMonger said:
Id stick to the Sanke snap rings if I were you! I have heard nothing about the standard ones, except they are harder to get in and out. The C-style rings... well I hear they are pretty easy to get in and out, but also have a tendency to leak gas. I'd rather learn how to properly use the standard equipment and not have the potential headache of my CO2 bottle emptying in my kegerator. It takes me a second to remove a ring I put on. Takes me about 10 seconds with a brewery applied ring. Putting them in is the time consuming part, and that is simplified with practice. Little trick, make sure the end of the spring you will be pulling out next time lines up with a keyhole. This makes it simple to get your blade/screwdriver under and then turn your wrist to remove the ring. EASY!!!!!
Click to expand...

Thanks! I'm going to order a couple of these. Gives me an excuse to add the spunding valve parts to my order ;-)
 
Thanks WortMonger, I missed that one apparently. Have any idea where to get the tail piece? I read somewhere in this thread that you had one made with nylon, how much would it be to have one made up for me - and any others that might be interested?
 
I successfully pressure fermented my 2nd batch in a corny. This time I filled it up to the welded seam, ~ 5 gal, and had the gauge pre-set to 12.5 psi the whole time. My gas line remained clear almost up to the end, and then I got a little something that came through. This is a Dead Guy clone with one packet of us-05 in it. Here is the direct link; 10/23/11 | Flickr - Photo Sharing!

I now have a dedicated 'Spartanburg' corny that my spunding valve rides on. I send the first little bit of yeast to this when I pressure transfer too. That way I only get clear beer in the serving keg, baby!
 
Poindexter said:
I have only made a few batches this way, but if I spring for another spunding valve I'll go with a fixed relief valve around 7-8psi.

I am still working in Corny's only, I don't own any Sanke kegs. But, I have pressure tested my cornies to 80psi.

The adjustable spunding valve I built when I lived in Texas (early 2008?) is a great brewhouse tool, but I don't need all that flexibility to make the pale ales I mostly brew. And it is hard to clean.

I have mostly been filling the primary fermenter Corny to about 4.5 Gallons, with a jump tube from the grey post on the primary to the black post on a second Corny with a bit of water in the bottom, perhaps a quart, and then putting the spunding valve on the grey post of the second Corny.

That's harvested yeast in Corny number two, at three generations I am happy. Once primary has settled down I tend to push the 4.5 gallons out of Corny number one onto a half gallon of water in Corny number three, no spunding valve, just let it build pressure as it finishes.

Once it is done, two-three weeks or so from pitch it is ready to chill, tap and enjoy.
Click to expand...

78 pages in, this is the post I have been looking for. :ban:
I've come too far to quit reading now, though!
 
That's interesting about racking onto a half gallon of water. Never thought of that to get to a full corny. Do you bump your recipe up or is there no real noticeable difference?
 
Brewed a 50 liter batch of stout yesterday, and put it into a sanitized Sankey, got the 3/4 inch cut off the spear, and put the spring original ring in place. Got that bad boy back home, sanitized the Sankey tap after removing that pea and retaining clip. Pitched the Yeast.

My pressure relief valve / pressure gauge has not yet arrived.

Will I wake up to a lot of wort / krausen / beer on the floor, or can I leave it with the tap on top and relax? ( Ran out of home brewed beer )

**** Answer Wort was Everywhere *** Pressure built up despite having both the gas and the liquid ports on the taps open.
 
1MadScientist said:
I successfully pressure fermented my 2nd batch in a corny. This time I filled it up to the welded seam, ~ 5 gal, and had the gauge pre-set to 12.5 psi the whole time. My gas line remained clear almost up to the end, and then I got a little something that came through. This is a Dead Guy clone with one packet of us-05 in it. Here is the direct link; 10/23/11 | Flickr - Photo Sharing!

I now have a dedicated 'Spartanburg' corny that my spunding valve rides on. I send the first little bit of yeast to this when I pressure transfer too. That way I only get clear beer in the serving keg, baby!
Click to expand...

Did you shorten your dip tube in the corny?
 
GNBrews said:
Did you shorten your dip tube in the corny?
Click to expand...

No I didn't. What I think is cool is to transfer that first little bit of yeast into my 'spartanburg' keg then move the transfer line to my serving keg, nothing but clear beer, baby! The blue handle keg is my dedicated 'spartanburg' keg that my spunding valve rides one.

Download 739 009.jpg
 
brieuxster said:
Brewed a 50 liter batch of stout yesterday, and put it into a sanitized Sankey, got the 3/4 inch cut off the spear, and put the spring original ring in place. Got that bad boy back home, sanitized the Sankey tap after removing that pea and retaining clip. Pitched the Yeast.

My pressure relief valve / pressure gauge has not yet arrived.

Will I wake up to a lot of wort / krausen / beer on the floor, or can I leave it with the tap on top and relax? ( Ran out of home brewed beer )

**** Answer Wort was Everywhere *** Pressure built up despite having both the gas and the liquid ports on the taps open.
Click to expand...
The beer port on a Sanke should never be left open after any pressure is in the keg. There is only a small opening in the gas port on a Sanke tap connector, and that causes pressure building in a keg regardless of anything else like beer's liquid pressure in a dip-tube assembly. Yeast produce a lot of CO2, at least a lot more than I ever realized until I started using pressure.

My theory on fermentations: An airlock makes it look easy, a blow off bucket makes it look messy, and pressurized fermentation done the wrong way... makes it look dangerous. You should have gone with the recommended closed beer port and blow off hose on your gas port combination until you got the right stuff to do a spunded and controlled pressurized fermentation. Hope you didn't lose too much beer out your beer port. I like to use a sanitized penny, gasket, and beer nut to close off my beer port on a Sanke tap connector.
 
1MadScientist said:
No I didn't. What I think is cool is to transfer that first little bit of yeast into my 'spartanburg' keg then move the transfer line to my serving keg, nothing but clear beer, baby! The blue handle keg is my dedicated 'spartanburg' keg that my spunding valve rides one.
Click to expand...

This is the way I am going to be going myself. This is a great way to top crop if you can, clean out your dip-tube and harvest a bit more yeast, and have wonderfully clear beer upon transfer into the actual serving keg. I hope this catches on and we have more research/more successful batches over this add-on to the (CSPF) technique. Keep it coming 1MadScientist:mug:
 
Well I have a penny and a plastic gasket with a beer nut on the beer out side

ForumRunner_20111122_214857.jpg

The rubber hose attached a picnic tap on the gas side bubbling in a glass of water.

ForumRunner_20111122_214926.jpg
 
Looking good brieuxster. Sorry it takes me so long to get back to your questions, I'm just a bit busy due to the holiday coming up so it takes me a bit to check back sometimes.

Your setup looks great for what would normally be a blow-off tube type of fermentor. I can't wait until you get your spunding supplies and put the valve together to pressure ferment with accurate pressures.

Quick question for you though. Did you remove the liquid back-flow prevention (check valve) from the gas port on your tap connector? They all look different so explaining what it looks like is futile, but other than the metal the tap connector is made of... there shouldn't be anything in the tap connector gas port while using it as a blow off (or when using the spunding valve) on that port on the connector. I assume you have removed it due to your mess you spoke about in an earlier post, but if for some reason you didn't you might look into that.

Also worth re-mentioning, since the thread is so long I can't remember when I said it last; Not that you would have to remove it the way you are using it now or anything, but just to let you know, the beer port on your tap connector has a ball type check valve in it to prevent beer from going back into the keg during normal serving. When/if you decide to transfer beer using a tap connector, you will want to remove the plastic holder and ball from the connector on the tap of your receiving keg so beer can go down the beer port into the keg. I can usually get a fingernail underneath the edge of the plastic holder and get it out with little effort. Just make sure and don't damage it, oh and make sure you put it in a safe place... they get lost really easy (ask me how I know this:eek:).

When you get the spunding supplies, the only modification to the tap connector during your spunded fermentation would be the gas port check valve (liquid back-flow prevention valve). I would leave the beer port as normal on the tap connector, and I would add your hose and picnic tap to the beer port for testing/tasting during your fermentation. That's all I have for now, hope everything is going swimmingly after your initial mess, lol. Let me know if I can be of more help to you. I will check the forum off and on during Thanksgiving.:mug:
 
So I started reading this thread at the beginning of the year but took on the challenge to finish it this weekend. Glad I did because I learned a couple new things along the way. First I was glad to find out cornies require more psi to seal. Most people in this thread are using sankes which don't have this problem. This whole time I thought my 10 gal and 15 gal cornies were bad because they would not seal unless I placed 4 psi on them. This caused my second concern that was eventually cleared up with more reading. There are several posts at the beginning with psi by date schedules and most of them started at 2psi which I could not achieve. After reading more, several people are starting out at 5-7 or at least keeping it under 15 until most the fermentation is completed (then letting it rise to appropriate carb levels).

After doing p-ferm a couple times on my own I want to stress the importance of checking your SV is working properly. On thanksgiving I realized my SV wasn't pushed in all the way. I pushed it in and the gauge went up to 80 immediately and everything in a five foot radius got covered in beer by my high pressure beer rooster tail! Needless to say I'm lucky it didn't explode... And I though it was the deep fried turkey that was going to kill me last Thursday!

Lastly, I saw lots of side conversations on this thread about dry hopping. I was planning on tying a bag or tea ball to the top of the dip tube of my serving keg so that it would be removed from the beer after a couple pints pulled from the keg. I however have never dry hopped in temperatures this low. Anyone else do this method and have any feedback? Length of exposure time change with temp? Maybe a solution would be to tie off the hops in the pressurized fermenter and when you have reached your carb level but before you cold crash, flip the keg upside down to immerse the hops? Or maybe sone fancy contraption that holds them at the top with a hard drive magnet on the outside and you just remove the magnet to drop them into the beer? Just trying to contribute because I have gained a lot of knowledge from this thread, thanks all involved!
 
Wow you did a lot of reading! I like your idea about suspending the dry hops above the beer with a magnet, then dropping them in later. Wish I had room in my Sanke to try that approach. I am thinking that dry hopping in a second keg is going to be how I go with it, then transfer to a serving keg after that.
 
Just got my first attempt at this method into the sanke. Getting the original spiral ring back in needs to go into some kind of "zen" book of homebrewing! That was a lesson in patience!

Possibly a stupid question, on the sanke coupler, does the handle need to be in the "locked" or "unlocked" position? Mind is currently in the "locked" position. Thanks!

2011-11-29%25252015.17.08.jpg
 

Similar threads

A
Problems Keeping O2 out of NEIPA (I think)
Replies
13
Views
597
Dog House Brew
Dog House Brew
odie
off flavor from transfer to mini keg???
Replies
9
Views
521
odie
odie
Franktalk
Sanitizing Solution Needed in PRV for Pressure Ferment?
Replies
34
Views
694
Graham H
G
Franktalk
Will Cold-Crashing in the Fermenter Result in Less Sediment in the Keg?
Replies
8
Views
1K
gaviga
G
R
To what degree is carbonated beer protected from oxidation
Replies
8
Views
1K
DavidWood2115
D

Latest posts

Back
Top