dang i installed the wrong pid again!!! help

so i bought the aubrins pid with the relay output not the SSR and i own an SSR.. i already installed it, havnt ran it and there is no wy to return it what can i do? im running a 1500 W element. i have had nothing but issues with the pids. im sick of it. could the element be underpowerd by th pid?

1/16 DIN PID Temperature Controller (Relay Output) [SYL-2342] - $44.50 : auberins.com, Temperature control solutions for home and industry

nothing yet?

What are you controlling the temp. of? Do you really need a PID/SSR for it? 1500W can run off an A419.

Otherwise, yup, better get another PID.

kickflip_mj said:

so i bought the aubrins pid with the relay output not the SSR and i own an SSR.. i already installed it, havnt ran it and there is no wy to return it what can i do? im running a 1500 W element. i have had nothing but issues with the pids. im sick of it. could the element be underpowerd by th pid?

Click to expand...

No offense, but it sounds like your issue has more to do with attention to detail than PIDs. Auberins sells a generic SSR/relay PID, dedicated SSR PID, and dedicated relay PID.

Have you tried contacting them to see if you can exchange it for a generic SSR/relay PID or dedicated SSR PID?

If you plan to keep it, I believe the PID you purchased has a builtin 10amp relay that will support a 1200 watt element. You can always use the internal relay to control the external PID, but the switching rate will be limited to a ~5 second cycle. A 5 second cycle is more than adequate for controlling an HLT or MLT but won't work well for a BK.

Hope that helps...

You could use it, just need to get a DC power supply and run the positive bias through the normally open relay contacts and to the + side of the SSR, then connect the - DC bias to the SSR. Probably could get away with a cheap wall transformer to test. It could click away like a sob though. If you're stuck with it, wouldn't hurt to try.

well its just for a herms set up. im only controlling the temp of like 2.5 gal. no big deal the coil is through a cut down corney with a heating element.. i just am so tierd of spending money on this damn pid crap.. im mad too because if you read the bottom of the description it says i can use a SSR but then i ordered it and mounted it. the stickers on the side are screwed alittle so there is no chance of a return.

damn i read the pid i bought again and well my fault... can you guys point me to exactly what i need? i could always use the current pid for a fridge. lame though

kickflip_mj said:

damn i read the pid i bought again and well my fault... can you guys point me to exactly what i need?

Click to expand...

This one or this one.

kickflip_mj said:

i could always use the current pid for a fridge. lame though

Click to expand...

Ha...I can see it now - Guys, I installed a PID on my converted fridge and the compressor burnt up a week later.

Using a PID to control a compressor is a bad idea...

All you need is a small 9 Volt DC wall wort supply. I will draw up how you connect it later. You see, the version that is designed for the SSR puts out 10 volts DC to turn on the SSR. On your version of the PID you have a simple relay contact. All you really need to do is provide your own 10 volt DC source (the 9 volt DC walwart, 9 Volts is enough to turn the SSR on) and switch it with the relay contacts on your PID.

One more option:
Get a new SSR with a 120V AC control voltage.
This way no DC supply is required.

Guys, I installed a PID on my converted fridge and the compressor burnt up a week later.
Using a PID to control a compressor is a bad idea...

Click to expand...

You can use a PID as long you don't use it in the proportional mode.


Cheers,
ClaudiusB

lamarguy said:

Ha...I can see it now - Guys, I installed a PID on my converted fridge and the compressor burnt up a week later.

Using a PID to control a compressor is a bad idea...

Click to expand...

Heh, thats not true.

I've been running my fermenter from a PID for well over a year with no problems. Have to set a dead band +- 2 degrees or so and a min on and off time, think mine is set to 5 minutes.

But yes, You certainly don't want to cycle the compressor excessively.

Virtuous said:

I've been running my fermenter from a PID for well over a year with no problems. Have to set a dead band +- 2 degrees or so and a min on and off time, think mine is set to 5 minutes..

Click to expand...

What brand PID are you using? I don't believe the Auberin PIDs have a min off time setting, which was the basis for my advice.

Virtuous wrote:Heh, thats not true.

I've been running my fermenter from a PID for well over a year with no problems. Have to set a dead band +- 2 degrees or so and a min on and off time, think mine is set to 5 minutes.

But yes, You certainly don't want to cycle the compressor excessively.

Click to expand...

lamarguye is correct too, it's all in the setup.
What are your parameter settings?
Compressors are not designed to run on low voltage.
If your controller calls for less than 90% of power the compressor sure will suffer.
At a very low voltage won't start at all, just heats up.
It's not like a heating element which can run from 0-100%

My edit:
One thing I forgot to mention is the compressor starting circuit.
Depending on the circuit, relay, PTC. etc. the compressor will not turn on at all if the voltage for the starting circuit is too low or the duty cycle is very short.
In this case no harm is done.


Cheers,
ClaudiusB

ClaudiusB said:

lamarguye is correct too, it's all in the setup.
What are your parameter settings?
Compressors are not designed to run on low voltage.
If your controller calls for less than 90% of power the compressor sure will suffer.
At a very low voltage won't start at all, just heats up.
It's not like a heating element which can run from 0-100%


Cheers,
ClaudiusB

Click to expand...

I see this thread going off on a wild tangent

SSRs, at least to my knowledge, can not be throttled. It is either off or on. This is because the internal resistance across the junction changes while it is in transition. Any measurable amount of resistance across that junction for an extended period of time (micro seconds) will cause so much heat it will burn up. That why you need a heat sink on these guys, between the switching and the minuscule amount of resistance when the junction is closed still creates heat.

the point is you are not varying the voltage going through the SSR to the load. You are switching it on and off. the rate of cycling determines the 0-100 % out put. For example 2 seconds on and 2 seconds off could be considered 50%. For our intents and purposes an SSR behaves just like a mechanical relay but it can be switched faster and makes less noise.

so are you guys basically saying to run a 9v dc inverter between the pid and the SSR? and from the SSR to the element? and if so how many amps for the inverter? are we talking cell phone size of computer size? thanks for all the help so far

Very small, the wall wort transformer variety.

SSRs, at least to my knowledge, can not be throttled. It is either off or on.

Click to expand...

Correct, I don't think I sad it that way.
I was only talking about PID output and lamarguy compressor problem..

Like I sad from the beginning it depends all on the parameter settings how a connected devices will behave.
Long cycle time and large duty cycle sure is better for a compressor.

For example 2 seconds on and 2 seconds off could be considered 50%.

Click to expand...

Same applies to 10 seconds.

The PID output is a PWM signal (for my units), the average voltage is what my load sees for the given duty cycle.
Low effective voltage can be damaging to pumps, compressors if driven directly.
If 120 V is required and the effective voltage is 70 V for non resistive devices,
like motors, etc., can create starting problems or even excess heat.

If you have the equipment you can measure the effective voltage at the load.

The cycle time we can program (not the same as duty cycle) is the time the controller can use to make adjustments to the required duty cycle.
The duty cycle On & OFF time has to equal the cycle time.

If we set the cycle time to 5 seconds and the controller calls for 20% duty cycle, the output will be ON for 1 sec and off for 4 sec.
If we set the cycle time now to 50 seconds the output will be on 10 sec and off for 40 sec, it is a lot better for my load device.
40 second at 100% operating voltage.
Imagine a motor, pump, etc. to run for 1 sec and coasting for 4 sec and starting all over for a long period of time at a 20% duty cycle.

I hope we are talking about the same thing.

Cheers,
ClaudiusB

Yes, we are. Previously you said 0-100% power with out mentioning PWM which had me head scratching and put me on the SSRs do not behave like a rheostat tangent.
and yes, I agree with you
No worries.
I dont know what kind of PID controller is on my fridge, some Chinese knock off that did PID and hysteresis controls.

ClaudiusB said:

I was only talking about PID output and lamarguy compressor problem.

Click to expand...

Sweet! I got something named after me..."Dude, watch out for the lamarguy compressor problem."

can anyome still help me with the inverter?

kickflip_mj said:

can anyome still help me with the inverter?

Click to expand...

Sawdustguy said:

All you need is a small 9 Volt DC wall wort supply. I will draw up how you connect it later. You see, the version that is designed for the SSR puts out 10 volts DC to turn on the SSR. On your version of the PID you have a simple relay contact. All you really need to do is provide your own 10 volt DC source (the 9 volt DC walwart, 9 Volts is enough to turn the SSR on) and switch it with the relay contacts on your PID.

Click to expand...

It's not an inverter. A inverter make DC into AC. It is a simple Wall Wort DC power supply which is available at Radio Shack for about 7 bucks. Get one that is 9 VDC (Very common Wall Wort voltage). To switch the SSR you need very little current so almost any 9 VDC Wall Wort will work.

i have one laying around, can i use anything larger than 9VDC? i have a 13 vdc, would that work?

anyone can give me some help?

i have one laying around, can i use anything larger than 9VDC? i have a 13 vdc, would that work?

Click to expand...

Yes
As long you don't exceed the SSR control voltage, look at the SSR.
Most SSR's have a 3-30 VDC control voltage range.

Cheers,
ClaudiusB

thanks once again claudius

Below is the description for the Auber 25 Amp SSR. Note the input voltage is 4.5 VDC to 32 VDC, so yes a 13 VDC wall wort will work as Claudius B has predicted. BTW, back in post #3, The Pol asked how much current do you really need to switch? Are you aware the relay contacts internal to PID can handle up to 10 Amps at 120 VAC? You may not need a SSR at all.

Description: 25A SSR
Manufacturer: Lide
Manufacture’s Part Number: RS1A40D25
Input Voltage 4.5-32VDC
Output Voltage: 40-400VAC
Current Rating: 25A
Output: Triac
Switch method: zero-cross turn on
Approval :CE
Condition: New
Warranty: 90 days
Specification: http://www.auberins.com/SSR Series-RS1A.pdf

sawdustguy,

i need the SSR just because i have a 1500 watt element im running, i think 10 A will run up to a 1200 W element so its kind of a must

I wasn't sure exactly how much current you were switching but at 12.5 amps you will meed the SSR.

Hi guys,

I've been racking my brain trying to figure out which PID I need to get and if it will do what I need. I have two applications.

1) Control a chest freezer to keep it at 40F or so.

2) Control a fan.

I want to buy two PID's and was wondering if this PID would work for the freezer (120v) and a second one would control a fan (12v or 120v)

I would like it to be 100% on until the tempurature is reached and then completely shut off. Will this PID do the job?

New PID SSR TEMPERATURE CONTROLLER FURNACE KILN OVEN - eBay (item 290330469775 end time Jul-13-09 11:05:28 PDT)

1) Control a chest freezer to keep it at 40F or so.

2) Control a fan.

Click to expand...

Are you planning on using the PID's for the same freezer?
If yes, use the Love TSS2 two channel ON/OFF controller.

Long time ago I read TET612 manual and found some limitations for my brewing.
I need to go back and read the manual again.

Cheers,
ClaudiusB

Thanks for your reply.

Actuall I want to use one PID for the freezer. Have it turn on until it reaches the desired temp and then shut off until it starts to get warm again. You know, the same thing the built in temp controller does.

The second pid will be used to power a fan to circulate cold air for a small cold room. That fan will come on if the temp goes above 68 or whatever.

I just want a controller that I can run 120v to, wire the freezer or fan to, set the temp, and all is good.

Sorry, getting late and made a duplicate post

keithster this is a good controller wit ON-OFF control mode Universal 1/16 DIN PID Temperature Controller [SYL-2362] - $41.95 : auberins.com, Temperature control solutions for home and industry

or the Love TS Dwyer Instruments - Series TS


Cheers,
ClaudiusB

so sorry for the late response...


sawdust guy,

i was looking at your diagram and are you saying the prongs of the wall wort are conected to a seperate power source and the negative output of the wall wort is connected to #7 and the positive is connected to the SSR?

The wall wort can be connected to any 120 Volt AC source that is handy. Yes, connect the negative output of the wall wort to terminal #7 on the SYL-2342 and the positive output of the wall wort is connected to the (+) terminal of the SSR. Don't forget to connect a wire from terminal #8 on the SYL-2342 (-) terminal of the SSR.

just the man i was looking for.

thank you for the response sawdustguy. i have finally got back to finishing my set up after working to much. just aquired a new danby fridge so the conversion begins. thank you for all your help so far.

I would SOOOO give the guy at Aubern a ring a ling. He has always worked hard and fair for me and others here. I bet he can solve your problem.

so i need help programming this dang thing.. the temp keeps raising 4 degrees above the set temp... could someone help me dial this thing in? i spent like 3 hours trying to figure it out

any help would be appreciated