Planning Old Ale, questions about Brett

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tdogg

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My original thread; https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f36/planning-brett-old-ale-questions-295429/

I am planning to brew my first "sour", an old ale similar to the 11-11-11 Old Ale that many HBTer's did. But first I wanted to pick the brains of people with Brett experience.

Here's my basic plan: brew the old ale recipe, SG around 1.080. I will boil down the first gallon or two of runnings to get lots of kettle carmelization. Then ferment "normally" with an English yeast strain. then secondary in a 5 gallon keg, adding some form of brett to secondary. secondary for 6-10 months and bottle condition.

Any issues with this plan?

I'm not afraid of a fair amount of brett funk, but i dont want so much that it will cover up the caramel and malt notes. If i mash low-ish (148-151) so the sacc can finish lower, will this decrease brett character?

the original 11-11-11 thread used wyeast Olde Ale Blend, which is no longer available. Wyeast says they used Brett L. some people who brewed it said the Brett L contributed a fruity-belgiany-sherry like flavor. what brett strain should i use?

any guidance is helpful. thanks in advance!
 
Usually when you pitch Brett as a secondary fermenter you get higher attenuation, so you may want to adjust your mash accordingly. I also wouldn't be expecting "huge" Brett flavor if you're using it as a secondary. But it will still be noticeable. All in all though your plan sounds good
 
I would go with Brett C, as I believe this strain was specifically isolated from an English Stock Ale, and there by more historically 'proper' also it tends not to produce many flavor s mostly aroma
 
I would do Wyeast Brett L. I loved the results with the 11-11-11 batch. Very cherry-sherry like notes in there. Barring not being able to find it, WL Brett C would be the way to go.
 
Usually when you pitch Brett as a secondary fermenter you get higher attenuation, so you may want to adjust your mash accordingly. I also wouldn't be expecting "huge" Brett flavor if you're using it as a secondary. But it will still be noticeable. All in all though your plan sounds good

Actually you're going to get more brett flavor from brett in secondary than primary.
 
Are you going to oak at all? I oaked my old ale for about two weeks and it has a great aroma from it.
 
I brewed an Old Ale similar to that recipe about 14 months ago using 1028 and Brett C. I added 2 oz of well boiled, port soaked oak cubes after 1 month. At the 6 month gravity sample the oak was very overwhelming, but now has mellowed out nicely with the Brett adding some sherry notes. Its down to 0.094, but I'll probably let it sit for a few more months.
 
I love the treacle flavor that some olde ales have. My plans are to add a jar of the english stuff to a similar recipe.
 
Thanks for the tips! My LHBS doesnt carry brett C, but I asked nicely and they are going to order it for me. I have a brown ale sitting on a yeast cake of WL005 that will be used for the old ale. Hoping to brew in about 2 weeks!
 
Well I have a brown ale fermenting on WL005 right now, so I will use that yeast for the Olde Ale. Also, I have obtained a vial of Brett C and the Blackstrap Molasses. I'm hoping to brew this one next weekend.

As far as Oaking is concerned, I have a port that is in a carboy right now. When the oak cubes are done in the port, ill transfer those to the Old Ale. I think the port will add even more character to this beer, and the oak (im going to use a mix of american and french cubes) will be mellowed out a bit from spending time in the port.
 
Sounds like its going to be good! How much of the molasses are you planning on using? I used 8oz treacle for a 5gal batch and it's definitely present, not overly so, but just right.
 
I finally brewed this beast. After trying several brett beers I decided that I wanted a decent amount of brett flavor, so I pitched a vial of White labs Brett C today, and I will pitch a buttload of wyeast Thames Valley II in a day or two so the brett can get established. the recipe is as follows:

10# maris otter
5# golden promise
12 oz brown malt
8 oz amber malt
4 oz weyermann smoked malt
12 oz black strap molasses

2 oz target hops at 60 min

Mash at 155

I boiled the first 1.5 gallons of runnings for about 40 minutes quite vigorously to caramelize some of the sugars. Then I ran the rest of the wort into the kettle for a 75 min boil.

Due to a terrible crush and the fact that I am experimenting with my process, I only hit 1.075 OG (was aiming for 1.084), but if the brett dries it out the beer should still hit about 8.5% to 9% abv.

I'll keep you guys posted!
 
I finally brewed this beast. After trying several brett beers I decided that I wanted a decent amount of brett flavor, so I pitched a vial of White labs Brett C today, and I will pitch a buttload of wyeast Thames Valley II in a day or two so the brett can get established.

You want to pitch the sacc yeast now. The sacc will act quicker than the Brett and consume all the O2 in the wort causing the Brett to reproduce anaerobically, which is what you want to get the traditional Brett flavors and low attenuation.

If you let the Brett get established in the wort first, you may not get the Brett flavors, and will end up with a fruity beer.
 
Good to know, Ill pitch the sacc today. It makes sense that stressing the brett with low oxygen makes it produce flavor, but I still dont understand why it doesnt attenuate as far if you pitch brett first.
 
Quick update: I racked this into secondary yesterday and it tasted great! Slight hint of smoke, lots of molasses and caramel. I didn't get a gravity reading as my hydrometer was out in the garage. The color was a nice deep amber. I was hoping for something a little darker, next time I will have to boil the first runnings harder/longer. I am thinking about trying this process (caramelizing the first gallon or so of the runnings) for a SMASH barleywine.
 
Update: its been about 6 months since the brewday, and i just pulled a sample. tastes very smooth, flavor is a little fruity as Calder had warned. Still very good and I will be proud to share this over the winter with friends.

question, is Brettanomyces supposed to form a pellicle? I didnt get one.
 
question, is Brettanomyces supposed to form a pellicle? I didnt get one.

Not always, a pellicle is often a reaction to the presence of oxygen. I've had some brett beers form wild bubbly pellicles and others that barely changed while aging.
 
Sounds good. I want to bottle this one soon. The brett flavor is present, but hupefully it will get stronger. Would there be any point in re-innoculating with brett before bottling?
 
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