Recommendations on turning a stout into cherry chocolate

I've got a 5G batch of NB Dry Irish Stout that's been in the primary for 3 weeks now and I've got no keg room for it yet, so I'm thinking of moving it to a secondary and doing a cherry chocolate. This will be my first time doing any secondary addtions, so I'm a little unsure about it. I did a search and found a lot of different methods & ingredient amounts. Would I be on the right track to add a can (how many ounces?) of cherry puree and 7oz of hershey's coco, let it set 2 weeks, then keg? I was considering adding a vanilla bean also, but that may be too many flavors.

The vanilla would actually compliment the chocolate, but I would only add 1/2 a bean since it's potent stuff.

As for the other additions, you have the right idea. I would probably up the chocolate though if you want it to be noticeable over the cherries. Make sure it's unsweetened chocolate with absolutely nothing by 100% pure cocoa. I think Hershey's is okay. It won't hurt your beer if it's not 100% chocolate, you'll just have poor head retention because of the oils in it.

I have added 1 entire package of Hersey's Cocoa and 2 cans of Cherry concentrate to a stout with success.

Check out the notes on the Black Forest Stout in the book "Brewing Classic Styles". It talks about all of the above. I haven't done that recipe yet, but it's on the todo list.

One of my friends wants to brew a cherry chocolate stout with me. Thanks for getting a thread started. I have no helpful info but thanks to others for postings some helpful links and info.
I've never had a commericial version of a cherry chocolate stout but sounds good.

I have been told by the LHBS to use cocoa powder not bars to avoid issues with the cocoa butter. Then you wouldn't have any issues with poor head retention. I would ask others for amounts though. I have also been a little anxious about adding anything after the boil. I didn't soak a vanilla bean in vodka once and it killed a stout with some terrible, foul smell. Scared since.

Check out Pelican's Chocolate Raspberry Stout. I brewed this one a while back and it turned out pretty good. It might give you some good ideas.

Thanks for all of the replies. I mentioned what I was doing at work and one of the guys just happened to have picked up some vanilla beans at the farmer's market, so he brought me one. I stopped by the store and picked up an 8oz can of hershey's cocoa, but couldn't find cherry puree, so I bought 2 -14.5oz cans of pitted red tart cherries in water. So, I'm about to throw it all into the secondary and rack on top of it if you all think it sounds okay. To clarify:

5G Dry Irish Stout (primaried for 3 weeks)
Add to secondary: 1 split & chopped vanilla bean
8oz Hershey's Cocoa
29oz Pitted Red Tart Cherries in water

Rack beer on top

Sound like a plan?

(edit) Do I need to do anything to sanitize the cherries? Or just dump them in right out of the can? They are made by Oregon Fruit, the same company as the sterile cherry puree I saw on NB website.

I made a cherry vanilla cream stout a couple months ago. I used 5 14.5 oz cans of Oregon sour cherries and dumped them & juice right into the primary, since they're canned they're pasteurized already. I would add one more can to my next batch. It needs to age though to really let the flavors shine through as its hitting its prime after two months in the bottle and I'm saving a case until winter to see how it ages for a couple more months. I've never tried chocolate, so no advice there. +1 on the vanilla bean, it works with the cherries too.

I went for it today. I used 4 cans of tart cherries, 2 cans sweet cherries, 4oz hersheys cocoa, and 1 sliced/scraped/chopped vanilla bean.

I used the 2 cans of sweet cherries thinking it would offset some of the bitterness of the other 4 cans of tart cherries and the cocoa. I also didn't soak the vanilla bean in any liquor as I didn't want to add any liquor to the brew. And I cut back on the cocoa since I saw everything ranging from 2-8oz and figured I could always add to it, but I can't take away.

I have to say it smelled effing great! Hopefully it turns out good, because it's a pretty expensive batch now. I'll update in week or two when I taste it.

I can pretty much assure you that you won't taste the chocolate over those cherries. I've got a lot of experience with chocolate in beers, and to get a pronounced chocolate flavor, you'll need at least 8oz. Also, you won't get much bitterness from it since you didn't boil it. Next time, you can use vodka to sanitize the beans. It's flavorless, so you won't notice it in the beer.

Would you recommend I add the other 4oz of cocoa now? Or wait a week and taste it, then add if needed? I won't be extremely disappointed if the vanilla doesn't come through, but I'd like to have a good chocolate flavor. I read a few different recipes that only used 2oz, like the raspberry one earlier in this thread, so I chickened out on adding the full 8oz thinking it might be too much. It's my first try though, so any advice is much appreciated.

Also, I didn't do the vodka soak on the vanilla bean because all I had was some cheap stuff ($5 for 1/5) that I use in airlocks, and I didn't want to put that in my beer. And since I don't drink much liquor, I didn't want to spend the money for a bottle of good stuff.

With the amount of alcohol you'd be using to sanitize the beans...there's no need to go with expensive stuff. As for the chocolate...I'd say add it now. Others may disagree, but I think you'll be glad you did. The vanilla will definately come through. 1 bean may not seem like much, but it is.

Okay, I'll toss in the rest of the cocoa. On the vanilla, I was under the impression that you should chop it up and soak it in a couple ounces of vodka to leech out the flavor, then dump it in, vodka and all. That's why I didn't want to use the vodka I had. I did wash it in hot water, and used a sanitized cutting board and knife.

Reviving this thread rather than starting a new one for some more advice. It has been kegged for about 6 weeks now. The vanilla flavor is absent, the cherry is somewhat noticable, but the chocolate tastes like unsweetened cocoa still.

So, I'm thinking of adding some lactose and vanilla extract to smooth it out. What's a good amount to start with for these ingredients?

Lactose is something that needs to be added during the boil, so it's too late for that.

As for vanilla, I'd add another bean until you get the right flavor. If you're wanting a pronounced vanilla flavor, then just throw a few beans in the keg and leave them there while you're serving it.

Chocolate is a tricky ingredient. I didn't search back to the beginning of the thread, but did you boil any chocolate at all? There shouldn't be bitterness if you didn't boil any. I like to do half in the last 5 minutes of the boil and the other half in the secondary.

I did not boil any of the chocolate. It was not planned at the time of brewing to be cherry chocolate vanilla, I simply had no room in kegs for a batch of dry irish stout, so I decided to secondary it and try adding some flavors. It was 8oz of hershey's unsweetened cocoa added at secondary.

It's not undrinkable, but it leaves a bit of an unsweetened cocoa aftertaste, which keeps me from wanting a second one. Is there something else that can be used to sweeten after it's been kegged?

How is the chocolate overall? If you think it could stand to have a bit more, you could try adding some chocolate syrup to it. That may sweeten it up a bit. I've never used syrup, but I've heard it can be used. You may want to add campden tabs though to prevent it from fermenting more.

I'm not even sure if syrup would help, just throwing it out there.

Just wanted to pass on my experience with this beer. I was not looking for a sweet beer and I would call it a nice desert beer.

I brewed the Black Forest Stout in the book "Brewing Classic Styles" back in April. I used .55lb Ghirardelli unsweetened cocoa power at 0min and 2oz Black Cherry Extract in the keg. You get a HUGE aroma of cherries, the chocolate comes in the flavor and they seem to blend in the finish. I did not like it at first either but it has been growing on me. I was looking for some debittered black barley but ordered the wrong kind. The bitterness is the only thing I do not like, but everyone who has tried it says it is really good. I almost did the vanilla as well, but decided to do it when I brew it again. I fought a long time on extract or puree and the next batch is going to have to be 10gal, so I can see what I like better.

Yes, beers like this definately develop more with time. I have a double chocolate raspberry stout thats been in my basement for well over two years. It's delicious now, but I couldn't stand it at first.

Suthrncomfrt1884 said:

Lactose is something that needs to be added during the boil, so it's too late for that.

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Lactose can be added any time. Sure, it's a good idea to boil it in water so it mixes in better but it doesn't have to be boiled with the wort. I have made beers with unsweetened cocoa powder and you definitely want to add some lactose when you do that.

hibbleton said:

Lactose can be added any time. Sure, it's a good idea to boil it in water so it mixes in better but it doesn't have to be boiled with the wort. I have made beers with unsweetened cocoa powder and you definitely want to add some lactose when you do that.

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Okay, so I put a little bit of my personal opinion into that statement. No, lactose doesn't HAVE to be added at boil since it's an non-fermentable sugar, but it should be added to, as you said, mix evenly. Also, boiling it makes sure it's sanitary.

More personal opinion....

I don't believe lactose should be added to anything other than cream and milk stouts. It doesn't really add sweetness unless it's used in large amounts (well over the 1/2lb that most recipes call for). It will add body, thus giving it perceived sweetness due to higher FG, but it won't add sweetness to anything in the beer. It's a common mistake for people to assume that if they add lactose, it will improve the sweetness of chocolate, fruit, etc. I think when people want to improve sweetness, they mean they want to improve the amount of flavor most of the time.

Now, as this is my opinion, I'm sure I could be wrong about it. If I am, please let me know.

The cherry and chocolate flavors are okay, both can be tasted, but not overpowering. It just has such a dry taste that I think some sweetening is going to be necessary.

hibbleton, how much lactose would you recommend? I'm estimating I have around 3.5G left in the keg.