Brew Masters on Discovery w/ Sam Calagione

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Sorry to change the subject, but what is coffee malt? It was early on in the show, I think they incorporated it into the cedarified test batch. Another term for chocolate malt??
 
Sorry to change the subject, but what is coffee malt? It was early on in the show, I think they incorporated it into the cedarified test batch. Another term for chocolate malt??

Apparently it's a roasted malt made by Simpsons that imparts a coffee note. It's made in the UK and I've noticed that DFH likes to use specialty malts from the UK pretty often. That and Pilsner malt.
 
I thought about that, and then my DIPA started doing the thinking for me. What if this whole dumping of the 120 was just staged drama like on other reality shows? I mean how perfect, right? Their most expensive beer dumped down the drain *GASP*! I mean did you see how cloudy it was when they were dumping it? I know, that could have been the yeast but it seem time elapsed to me and it was VERY cloudy the entire time. The 120 they had at the tasting panel was crystal clear. Furthermore, how can you judge a 120 at such an early stage to all the other 120's they have done. And even furthermore, why the hell would you change your tried and true recipe every year and risk the chance of not making something greater? Goddamn I LOVE DIPA! Excuse me while I get a refill :)

Ya, however they are going along with that story on Sam's blog: http://www.dogfish.com/community/blogfish/members/sam/beer-ing-with-us.htm

Im sure it is legit though, its 18% ABV, not easy to do with ale yeast, right?
 
They change the recipe...and that's consistent with their stated philosophy of experimentation, which has come up repeatedly in the series.

They said the beer was dumped because the remaining sugars were unfermentable. When dealing with a beer that big, I'm not sure of all the variables in play, but they also pretty much indicated that it was a function of mashing it at the wrong temperature.
 
I felt like last night's episode was the best, yet.

I'm in agreement that it should've been the first episode, as it did a better job of establishing what the place is like on a day to day basis.
 
Sorry to change the subject, but what is coffee malt? It was early on in the show, I think they incorporated it into the cedarified test batch. Another term for chocolate malt??

It's a specialty roasted malt. Simpsons makes it, as does Franco-Belges. Not a huge fan of it, personally, but might be nice to accentuate a porter or stout in small quantities (to supplement the chocolate malt).
 
steampunk tree house, way cool; cedar surfboard brew, absolutely bang-on off centered fit; but come on, the 120m IPA DRAMA was such BS. $500,000 worth of beer down the drain? Street value, perhaps, but as we know the ingredients are no more than 10% of retail. With an annual estimated sales of $11,600,000 this means that they "lost" only 4/10ths of one percent, and yes, had to dump to keep the pipeline flowing. I agree with other posters that the increase in sales and revenue from the Discovery series (not to mention what Discovery probably paid for the rights) will mean this "loss" is nothing, only in interruption of the assembly line.
 
I about tear up thinking about dumping one of my $30-$40 batches, I can't imagine flushing $500,000 down the drain...

I think that $500K number comes from using the retail price of $9.99/bottle. Obviously the batch did not cost the brewery that much at that point in production and distribution cycle. Still, a fair chunk of change for a small business.
 
Geez, I wish they would have called me. I have about 4 empty cornies I could have filled up with their not-so-perfect beer and I live 3 miles from the brewery!
 
Yeah but @ $10.00 a bottle I think Sam said it was something like $500,000 lost? I guess that's the risk you run when brewing a lot of high gravity ales such as the 120. Still, from a business standpoint, there had to be a way to save their most expensive beer from being a complete wash.

Well, Sam suggested the blending approach, but Floris replied that he couldn't guarantee that would work. Considering they'd have to develop and brew a completely new beer to blend it with, those tanks of 120 would continue to consume bright tank space (as well as the blending beer, of course), blocking the pipeline for the other beers. Rather than disrupting their production schedule for months into the future on an uncertain proposition, they decided to cut their losses. I can understand that.
Personally, I would have added amylase or, if all else failed, alpha galactosidase; but that would require pasteurization to denature the enzymes at the right point, and I don't know if DFH is equipped to do that. Another approach could have been watering it down with gypsum-rich water and some hop extract to turn it into an effervescent regular-strength IPA, but again, that would require them using three times as many bright tanks to store the blend, a luxury that they don't have.
 
Best one yet in my opinion...

Would have to agree. Didn't gloss over the fact that even the best can ruin a batch every now and then. I will say that I was taken aback at the projected loss - $500K. No wonder every is happy at that brewery with the profit sharing and all.

I guess that I am puzzled by the fact that if you had what the brewmasters were deeming "good beer" that you would still dump it. Why not bottle or keg it and make it available to employees? I am assuming that it made more sense from a financial standpoint to free up the tanks for another beer but I was cringing when I saw them dumping so much product (they obviously were too). Montanaandy
 
I think that $500K number comes from using the retail price of $9.99/bottle. Obviously the batch did not cost the brewery that much at that point in production and distribution cycle. Still, a fair chunk of change for a small business.

Not 100% sure that comes from the retail price. They said they dumped 400 bbl (12400 gallons), roughly 132,266 12 ounce bottles at roughly $8.50 a bottle. (Guestimate based on an average cost of a bottle retail, - a 15% markup) Brings the loss up to just over $1,000,000. If you look at a clone recipe and do the math on a 10 gal recipe vs a 12400 gal you will see that it costs roughly 35k in grain alone, after other factors including water hops labor utilities I'm willing to bet its close to 500k. Seeing as how its such a time intensive beer (I know I've tried to clone it.) I'm sure the labor is outrageous.
 
Easily 500 grand. Consider that's two fermenters offline for 3 months with nothing to show for it. I wonder what the waste water bill was for dumping that :)
 
Well, Sam suggested the blending approach, but Floris replied that he couldn't guarantee that would work. Considering they'd have to develop and brew a completely new beer to blend it with, those tanks of 120 would continue to consume bright tank space (as well as the blending beer, of course), blocking the pipeline for the other beers. Rather than disrupting their production schedule for months into the future on an uncertain proposition, they decided to cut their losses. I can understand that.
Personally, I would have added amylase or, if all else failed, alpha galactosidase; but that would require pasteurization to denature the enzymes at the right point, and I don't know if DFH is equipped to do that. Another approach could have been watering it down with gypsum-rich water and some hop extract to turn it into an effervescent regular-strength IPA, but again, that would require them using three times as many bright tanks to store the blend, a luxury that they don't have.
You could have done any of these or left it alone to produce a drinkable beer but it wouldn't have been the 120 or 90 min IPA that they produce. They need to produce the same beer each time for their customers.

Frankly I would have added oak extract, kegged it and servered it at the brew pub as experimental oaked 120 ipa for cost.
 
How about when the one guy said he was going to stash his porn in the hipster tree house? I laughed for 10 minutes and missed the rest of the show because of it.
 
Frankly I would have added oak extract, kegged it and servered it at the brew pub as experimental oaked 120 ipa for cost.

this is what I'm wondering. they have a brewpub that they test beers on. Admit the mistake, keg it, maybe add something like this quote says, and sell it at $1 or $2 on tap at the eatery? who would complain? they'd make much of that back.
Remember, there are no mistakes in brewing, there are only limited special releases
 
I've really enjoyed the show and agree that last night's episode was a real good one. I'm a surfer, so the whole Grain to glass part of the show was cool; a neat way to join a custom surfboard outfit with a brew. The whole tree house thing was neat, although it was out of chronological order because it was shown in previous episodes. I thought it was funny at the end when they were testing the new batch in the tree house with the surfers, Sam was doing the usual shakedown of a beer that a craft beer lover would do, the other guys were trying to gulp the brew down like they were on spring break or something. Seeing all the 120 go down the drain was difficult. They did discuss a lot more details of brewing than in past shows.
 
. . . I thought it was funny at the end when they were testing the new batch in the tree house with the surfers, Sam was doing the usual shakedown of a beer that a craft beer lover would do, the other guys were trying to gulp the brew down like they were on spring break or something. . .

I had the same reaction! Sam goes on and on about the aroma, flavor, etc., and asks "what do you think?" and the answer is something like "its good." HAHAHAHAHAHA!
 
I think that $500K number comes from using the retail price of $9.99/bottle. Obviously the batch did not cost the brewery that much at that point in production and distribution cycle. Still, a fair chunk of change for a small business.

It absolutely did. Something else to keep in mind, though, is that DFH is a profit-sharing company so their employees get paid based on how much they sell. So, every time they dump beer the employees see it as "lost" money (even though they never had that money to begin with).

It's not quite the same as your paycheck getting cut in half as most people are paid at a fixed rate. These guys may have a fix rate pay but they also have a variable amount coming from the profit sharing. I'm sure that makes little difference to the DFH employees. They see it as a pay cut. Hence the drama.
 
My first taste of 120 was not a good one. It tasted like bad cough syrup. The a few months ago at a beer bar here in dc some brewers who were in town brought out a 2003 vintage of 120. THE hops were much more subdued and it was quite good. Its definitely something to treat as more of a liquor. Age it and sip it.
 
It absolutely did. Something else to keep in mind, though, is that DFH is a profit-sharing company so their employees get paid based on how much they sell. So, every time they dump beer the employees see it as "lost" money (even though they never had that money to begin with).

It's not quite the same as your paycheck getting cut in half as most people are paid at a fixed rate. These guys may have a fix rate pay but they also have a variable amount coming from the profit sharing. I'm sure that makes little difference to the DFH employees. They see it as a pay cut. Hence the drama.

I say it again, going from $0 in 1995 to over $12 million in annual sales, with over 100% growth - yes, doubling - every year since 2003, this company and its employees are not going to be hurt by the loss of this brew. It is a drop in the proverbial bucket.
 
this is what I'm wondering. they have a brewpub that they test beers on. Admit the mistake, keg it, maybe add something like this quote says, and sell it at $1 or $2 on tap at the eatery? who would complain? they'd make much of that back.
Remember, there are no mistakes in brewing, there are only limited special releases

First off - That was a GREAT show! IMO each episode is better than the last. Maybe they are doing that intentionally. I don't surf, but those boards were pieces of art.

I was thinking the same thing. Hard to know what to do without tasting it.

With the taste in my head - My ideas were:
1) Bottle it as Super Limited Edition "Sweet 120 min IPA" $15 a bottle. or
2) Bottle it as "oooooops 120 min IPA" Sell it at cost for promotional purposes (my beer shop says that DFH has been flying off the shelves since the show and can't keep any in stock).
Have a Holiday bomber pack with a "120" and a "oooooops 120." I know I would have bought it for myself and one for my brother in law.
Give it away on a brew tour so that people can taste the difference.
Have it as cheap beer at the restaurant.

I understand that they need to preserve the Brand and want to keep the highest quality standards. But I am from a "waste not, want not" frame of mind. I know I wanted to see what it tasted like (ironically it's the only DFH beer that I really want to taste). They made the decision that made financial sense. Oh well.

Anyone figure out what the $500,000 figure is? I was assuming that was the wholesale cost, but wondering what the actual cost of the batches that were tossed.
 
This episode was obviously filmed before the others, based on the treehouse was allready there in the others. I kind of wonder if the expansion they are doing in episode 2 or 3, was to add some tank space to hold an off brew like this til they can figure out what to do with it. 500k is alot to wash down the drain.
 
Just because they didn't show it doesn't mean they didn't fill 50 1/2BBL kegs for special occasions and brewpub sales. They will just never label it 120 minute.

From the looks on the faces of management as well as the brewery workers, I doubt that they kept any of it. While the brewmaster asst. stated that it was "good beer" I think that was more of a PR move. I mean they are not going to say that they produced "bad beer". The consensus among the tasters was that it was cloyingly sweet.

I also think that they would have pointed that out - the fact that they were salvaging some of it. No, I think that they actually poured $500K worth of beer down the drain.

I thought that it was interesting that they went back to an 06 batch for guidance. They did not like the later batches from what I can recall although I may be mistaken.

My take on all this was that this was an expensive wake-up call for them and that they have to be more careful with all of the balls that they are juggling (continually experimenting and trying to create new beers, producing proven favorites while at capacity, etc.). They took their eye off the ball on one of their flagship products and got burned.

Thought it was interesting that the brewmaster was shielding the mash temp from the camera - claimed that it was proprietary. Any guesses at what mash temp they mash that beast at? Montanaandy
 

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