Got a leak - double dual gauge regulator

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phidelt844

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Okay, so I think I have an understanding of what's going on here, but I want to confirm...

I picked up a kegging setup with 2 cornys, 5 lb tank, and the double dual gauge regulator from Midwest about a month ago and immediatly kegged two beers. One keg was kicked about a week ago and I cleaned/rebuilt/refilled. So the new one's been on the tap for about a week. Around the same time, I found a slow leak on the other keg's gas in post, so I cleaned out the poppet, lubed the rings, and reseated. Seems that fixed that leak. So anywho, on to my actual question..

I went out of town Friday, and everything seemed fine. This is 5-6 days after I had actually messed with anything. Came back today, and found both of my regulators at 0 psi, as well as the tank pressure. I checked the kegs to see if they had any pressure, and this is where I am confused. The new keg (from a week ago) still has pressure. I can pull the release valve and get a fancy burst of C02. Its regulator, however, reads 0 psi. The other keg (been on tap for ~4 weeks, thought I fixed a small leak last weekend) has almost no pressure when I pull the release valve, and it's regulator reads 0 psi as well.

My newbie knowledge of kegging would lead me to believe that the keg that has been carbing for about a week, that currently still has pressure, would still have a positive reading on the regulator. I mean, if you disconnect the gas QDs, crank the pressure, and kill the gas from the tank, it should maintain that set PSI assuming no leaks. So, if my QD is connected, the regulator is set to 12 psi, and my tank goes dead, I would assume the same principle: the regulator should still show some positive pressure. Sure the beer probably absorbed some, but after 5-6 confirmed days with gas on it, I can't imagine it would be too much.

I'm getting a new tank tomorrow and am trying to narrow down what I'm sure will be a major PITA of a search. Currently, since one of the kegs is basically flat, I'm assuming that that half of my setup is the culprit. But still, I am concerned that my other regulator shot down to zero as well, even with remaining pressure in the keg. Am I reading in to this wrong? Is my assumption that the flat keg is the culprit correct? This is getting too long and frankly I'm starting to confuse myself :drunk:. Thanks for any feedback!
 
I'm a newbie to kegging as well...

I don't trust any of my kegs to hold pressure, so I just leave the main valve on the CO2 the tank closed for the most part.

I usually have 3 kegs on tap and have 2 regulators... One set for carbing pressure at 30 PSI and the other set at serving pressure of about 12 PSI. One has a "Y" on it to go to 2 kegs and I just switch the pressure back and forth between the carbing and serving kegs.

I usually just put the gas to the kegs once a day for how ever long it takes for the pressure to stabilize. Yeah... I'm cheap!
 
I bought the same setup a while ago and had the same problem. First keg was fine, but second drained the tank. I discovered there was a leak around the pressure relief valve on the keg lid. I bought a new lid and works like new. Although I also discovered, too late to bring it up to midwest, that one of the regulators was faulty. No matter what i set it to, it will slowly creep up to 30+ psi. So I had to replace it. Other than that, the set up is great. In your case, it seems the flat keg is an indication that that half of the setup is leaking. When you get your new tank, hoof it up, take a paint brush, and dap everything with soapy water. It will be very obvious where the leak is. Also, with the tank empty, the gauge will read 0, even with pressure in the keg, it can still read 0.
 
+1 on the leaky second keg. If you have starsam I'd use that instead of soap if you have beer in it...

My one reg creeps sometimes, but It's because the lock nut doesn't hold the adjustment screw well... Need to get around to replacing that.

Good luck OP!
 
Two possibilities:

Only one of the lines has a check valve in it and that keg held pressure,
Or both lines have check valves and the keg that went to zero pressure has a leak. <- Most likely.
 
Both lines have check valves. Sounds like my flat keg is the culprit. I'll pick up a new tank today and give that half of my setup a once-over. Thanks for the advice!
 
All right - C02 tank is filled, and I have a strange issue...

I left my gas QDs disconnected, cranked the PSI on both regulators to 20PSI, and turned off my gas from the tank. After about 30 minutes, my regulator on the left (2nd from the tank, the one that regulated the flat keg) is down to ~18 psi, and the regulator on the right (1st from the tank, the one that regulated the keg that still had pressure) is up to 22 psi! I sprayed down everything looking for a leak to no avail; it seems like it's transferring pressure from one reg to the other!

[EDIT] Well I turned on the gas again, and my regulators shot up to 25 psi on the first, 22 psi on the second. So I'm thinking I didn't give it a chance to equalize the first go 'round. I'll restart my timer and check it again in an hour or two. So does the first regulator have to be a higher psi than the second one? Similar to how adding on additional regulators later in the system works? If I try to have my second regulator set at a higher psi than the first, will the second one just match the first regulator's pressure?
 
Well after a few hours, pressure has dropped from 25/22 to 22/19. I hosed the whole thing down with very soapy water and couldn't find anything. I'm assuming it's a very small leak. Disconnected/reconnected my regulator to the tank and tightened up all connections; maybe got a 1/4 turn on a couple of the hose connects, but I'm not sure that'll make a difference. Put the QDs in water and didn't notice any bubbles. I reset it and I'm gonna let it go for a few hours, but I'm not keeping my hopes up. Any help on where to go from here?
 
Ok,just to check with all the updates; going from your last post alone-

Pressure dropped 3/2 PSI after a few hours. Are you leaving the CO2 on, or are you shutting off the tank? You have beer in both kegs, correct?

I am thinking you are turning the gas off, and beer is absorbing the CO2 resulting in the pressure drop on your gauges. If that's the case, no worries- leave the gas on and carb up that good homebrew!

If that's not the case... Pending finding other leaks- What type of tubing are you using? If the kegs are empty, pressurize them and put them upside down in still water and look for bubbles (I had a leaky gas poppet before that caused me some headache before I realized it).

Pending updates, I'd say narrow down the variables again- one keg at a time, testing both kegs on both connections to isolate issues and resolve them.... Stick with it! It'll be worth it, trust me- good luck!
 
No kegs involved quite yet. I am currently turning the C02 tank on to charge the system, then shutting it immediately off. I placed my gas QDs in water and saw no bubbles. Last night I tightened everything down, then turned on the gas. The gauges shot right up to 17 psi on the 2nd gauge, and 25 on the 1st gauge. Then I turned the gas off. This morning I checked on it, and my pressure was at 15 psi/19 psi respectively. However, what I found strange is that I tried to turn the gas back on to reset it all, but the dials didn't move... I haven't adjusted my regulator settings or anything, so I expected the needles to shoot back up to 17 and 25 psi. I set my house a bit colder at night, so it may have been 5+ degrees colder ambient. I realize that the C02 tank gauge reads lower in colder temperatures; would temperature have the same effect on my regulators, and read a lower psi at a few degrees colder? I can't think of any other reason why turning my gas back on wouldn't immediately recharge my system, regardless of a small leak. But maybe I'm just trying to convince myself I'm leak free :cross:

[edit] I'm using the gas tubing that came with my setup from Midwest. Pretty sure it's the same 5/16" ID that they sell.

[edit #2] After some research, it seems like people using this method for leak checking are more concerned with the High Pressure Gauge reading. I don't believe my HPG has decresed at all; it seems only my Low Pressure Gauges are going down. My HPG, like my LPGs, did not increase when I turned the gas back on this morning. Does this narrow the problem area down or explain anything?
 
Testing on my spare/carbing tank now, since I've never done your exact setup. I know I don't have any leaks in it- single reg with 5 way distribution manifold. Low PSI just under 40, tank just over 1000 (ambient room temp). I typically just leave it on, but turned off the gas; I will report back later on the gauge levels- they SHOULD be the same, since the system is closed, regardless of pressure from the tank... but like I said, never tried it.
 
Awesome, thanks so much for keeping tabs on this, Morotorium!

I'll check the pressure again when I get home. If it's still lower, I may be giving my regulator a full submergence in my bath tub :eek:. Lookin forward to your results!
 
Well I fully submerged my tank/regulator/gas hoses. Didn't see any leaks :( MAYBE a tiny bubble every minute or so from the QDs and perhaps the connection between the tank and the regulator, but I can't confirm it wasn't just oxygen escaping from some crevice. No even minute steady stream as I was hoping. So I'm back to square one. This go around I'm going to try setting my regulators to 0, turning on my gas, then turning off my gas and monitoring my High Pressure gauge for any changes...
 
Sorry phidelt844; my gauges didn't really move much...

Remember, your high pressure gauge will change with temperature changes do to the nature of CO2. You'd be more accurate weighing it then trusting the gauge (also handy to take tare weight of it empty and check after filling to ensure you got what you paid for)..

Between the tank/regulator possible leak- do you have a plastic disc/washer? If not, I'd pick one up at your local gas place. I also would say NOT to use teflon tape on that connection.

One thing to help isolate the problem, is to get shut off valves for your low pressure line outs from your regulator. That way you could pressure up JUST the regulator and know it wasn't leaking anywhere on the output lines/connections.

Before you go much further, I forget if you posted it- is it a newly purchased regulator?
 
Yep, it's about a month old now. I'm using the plastic washer between the tank and regulator.

Last night I zeroed out my low pressure gauges, turned on the gas, then shut the gas down. HPG stayed constant right under 800psi all night. I've also pressurized my flat keg, so I'll check that tonight or tomorrow to ensure that's still holding pressure as well.

I'm just surprised that nothing was apparent while submerging my entire setup. And the thing that is really confusing me is that in my previous leak tests, when I've turned my low pressure gauges to around 25 psi overnight and shut the gas off, when I check it the next morning and they've gone down a few PSI, turning the gas back on does NOT shoot the needles back up... I mean, if there was a leak, hitting the gas again should recharge the system back to the set PSI, right? I'm at a loss at this point...
 
RDWHAHB... Definitely check the kegs to see if they hold pressure (and ensure to hit them with 25-30 PSI to seat the lids), and see what happens. Luckily, CO2 isn't too expensive (If your local place is like mine, just a hassle to get filled). Maybe you just got screwed on your last fill? Edwort has a good post on a luggage scale for weighing- he purchased it for propane, but same principle applies to CO2. Weigh you're empty tank, so you have a tare weight, get it filled and see if they really gave you what you paid for.

If you go through this tank, you get what you paid for next one and it happens again... Then good luck... Sorry it's being such a PITA for you! Good luck!
:mug:
 
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