Graff (Malty, slightly hopped cider)

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Can you share your recipe and process?

I posted it before. I originally did it as a pumpkin pie graff, but it was just as great with out the spices, so I just modified it with out the pumpkin related additions.

3lb Maris Otter 2-row
2lb Crystal 80L
1/2lb light brown sugar
1oz Fortified wheat = this can be omitted if you can't find it. It's just to try to retain head.
1oz crystal hops
4 gal kirkland (costco) pure apple juice - stay clear of ascorbic acid (vitamin c)
Water = Enough to yeild 1/1.5 gallons of wort + any boil off

For the yeast, use something that has a low attenuation.

For the mash:

~ 158F for body and sweetness

Boil:

.75 ounce of the hops @ 60 and the other .25 @ 10. This gives me an IBU of 10.6 @ 4.3 % AA - so use whatever, but aim for ~ 10 ibu.

Add brown sugar @ last 15min
 
Can you share your recipe and process?

I agree! I am still very new to all of this (this was my first brew) and I already want to play with it, but some other versions would help very much! I don't know why, but this particular form of brew is very uncommon... the dominantly cider based beer style brew.
 
I agree! I am still very new to all of this (this was my first brew) and I already want to play with it, but some other versions would help very much! I don't know why, but this particular form of brew is very uncommon... the dominantly cider based beer style brew.

That's because it was developed around the made up drink in Stephen king's dark tower series.

http://darktower.wikia.com/wiki/Graf
 
Advise Please!

Tuesday I will be bottling my first cider and was in search of a different recipe which is how I came upon this. I love malty beers and a malty cider sounded good to me, so I want to make some. My cider going into bottles Tuesday was fermented with s-04 and has a nice 3/4" thick yeast cake on the bottom of my 5 gallon better bottle. If I were to make this graff could I dump it right in the better bottle after I rack off the cider to be bottled? Thanks so much for the insight.

-Mike
Yes Mike that would be ok to do.
 
I haven't read through all of the pages on this thread, but of the 16 or so pages I have read, I'm liking what I'm seeing. I think I will try this for my next brew, hopefully brewing something my wife will like. She loves Woodchuck. One question- anyone tried Brandon O's graff recipe with liquid malt extract? I like Briess Pilsen light malt extract. I'm not opposed to using DME, I've just never used it before. Thoughts?
 
I haven't read through all of the pages on this thread, but of the 16 or so pages I have read, I'm liking what I'm seeing. I think I will try this for my next brew, hopefully brewing something my wife will like. She loves Woodchuck. One question- anyone tried Brandon O's graff recipe with liquid malt extract? I like Briess Pilsen light malt extract. I'm not opposed to using DME, I've just never used it before. Thoughts?

There's no reason you can't use LME
 
insanim8er said:
There's no reason you can't use LME

If you do use LME it would be a different quantity, x amount of DME does not equal the same amount of LME, I believe you would require more LME then what is called for in DME.
 
I brewed up a batch Sunday and followed the recipe. Today is Wednesday and I haven't noticed a lot of bubbling in my airlock.
 
mrdeshone said:
I brewed up a batch Sunday and followed the recipe. Today is Wednesday and I haven't noticed a lot of bubbling in my airlock.
What is the temperature of the fermenter? Is the lid on tight, I have a fermentor that has a leaky lid, I almost never see the blow off tube bubble, its getting replaced.
 
herc1354 said:
What is the temperature of the fermenter? Is the lid on tight, I have a fermentor that has a leaky lid, I almost never see the blow off tube bubble, its getting replaced.
70 degrees. Can I check the SG to see what it reads. I would hate to repitch yeast. Are there any tests that I can do to see if it fermented?
 
70 degrees. Can I check the SG to see what it reads. I would hate to repitch yeast. Are there any tests that I can do to see if it fermented?

yes, if you took a gravity reading, read the gravity again... if it's down, you're fermenting. Re-pitching isn't the end of the world. It's better to figure out if you need to sooner than later since you could be very vulnerable for infection.

Plus three days of no signs of fermentation isn't uncommon... Hell 4 days isn't uncommon. Your yeast could've been old or under pitched. I actually found the first graf that I made was under pitched with weak yeast. The only real sign of fermentation was a slight lacing on the top. It turned out to be the best one so far because it didn't dry out too much.

I pitched on top of that cake and had one of the strongest fermentations i've had. It tastes good with some age, but it was definitely dry. It needed a bit of concentrate added back. Turned out pretty damn good as well and it was a higher ABV
 
Me and a couple of friends just finished our first try at Graff. We used Brandon O's receipe. 8 gallons of Motts AJ from Walmart and 2 gallons of wort. We pitched Nottinghams dry right on top of the must/wort. Added yeast nutrient and fermented @ 68 degrees in chest freezer chamber. Fermented for 2 weeks and transferred into 2 corny kegs for force carb. Left at 13 lbs. for 5 days. We then set up a bottling system. Dropped pressure to around 7 lbs during bottling. Used bung on bottling cane to increase pressure a little bit to force out o2. Worked like a charm. We ended up with 3 and 3/4 cases of 12 oz. Starting gravity was 1.056 and FG was 1.006. I think the taste exceeded my expectations. It was smooth, little bit of hops, nice head and retention. A couple of these will get you there.. Estimated 6.6% ABV.
We will definitely do this one again. They are delicious...
Cheers and Happy Thanksgiving...
 
ya.. I just tapped a keg of graff filling bottles to take to thanksgiving dinner tonight. Tapped a keg of imperial milk stout as well... Good thing I have back-up kegs. But now I have no back-up kegs for those back-ups... Better get to it!

Happy Thanksgiving and GO DUCKS! (tomorrow)
 
soooooooooo excited. Im brewing this as I type. Gonna split it with 4 gallons us-05 and 1 gallon lavin 1116. will post results
 
insanim8er said:
ya.. I just tapped a keg of graff filling bottles to take to thanksgiving dinner tonight. Tapped a keg of imperial milk stout as well... Good thing I have back-up kegs. But now I have no back-up kegs for those back-ups... Better get to it!

Happy Thanksgiving and GO DUCKS! (tomorrow)

Sounds great...
 
Ok so I have made this three times now. I used Brandon-O's recipe, I did the gunslinger version, I made my own version with a SMaSH pale ale. All have been less than good. None of mine have had off flavors its just the flavor is not there. I rather just make cider or a beer. The concept was good with this which is why I kept trying different recipes, but in the end I rather make a beer or a cider. Great idea I'm glad people like it, but IMO this stuff sucks... Like I said thats my opinion, best of luck to you that like it.

:drunk::eek::cross::):(:hs::confused::eek:nestar::mug::mad::off::ban::tank::p:rockin:

The secret for me is scaling down on malt extract (or even do all-grain! Makes a world of difference.) And scaling up on the crystal malts (I use 1lb 60l).
 
Got my first taste today.

GraffSM_zpsdfbc3fda.jpg


Quite good! This batch can only improve with time. Its been in the bottle for about 3 weeks and in the fridge for a couple days. The only changes I made to the OP's recipe was to sub the 60L for equal parts 120L and honey malt (4oz each). I also used Saaz (3.4% AA) hops.

As far as taste goes it was a bit tart as the cider I bought had ascorbic acid in it. But not unpleasantly so. Next time I'll get cider without ascorbic acid. I'll also double up on the steeping grains to up the sweetness a bit (plus an ounce or two of lactose maybe?). The Saaz was hardly noticeable so I'll look at either using more Saaz or a hop with higher AA percentage. I'd like a bit more head retention so next time I'll use 2oz of torrified wheat.

A great drink. One I'm anxious to make again soon.

Thanks for sharing the recipe Brandon O. :mug:
 
Philistine said:
Got my first taste today.

Quite good! This batch can only improve with time. Its been in the bottle for about 3 weeks and in the fridge for a couple days. The only changes I made to the OP's recipe was to sub the 60L for equal parts 120L and honey malt (4oz each). I also used Saaz (3.4% AA) hops.

As far as taste goes it was a bit tart as the cider I bought had ascorbic acid in it. But not unpleasantly so. Next time I'll get cider without ascorbic acid. I'll also double up on the steeping grains to up the sweetness a bit. The Saaz was hardly noticeable so I'll look at either using more Saaz or a hop with higher AA percentage. I'd like a bit more head retention so next time I'll use 2oz of torrified wheat.

A great drink. One I'm anxious to make again soon.

Thanks for sharing the recipe Brandon O. :mug:

Nice job, looks awesome...
 
If you're going to try this, I'd suggest a 1 gallon batch to start. After reading this whole thread, I had a vastly different idea what this would taste like.
 
Howdy!

I've made a couple batches of Graff now and I was thinking of tinkering with some MLF fermentation to lower some of the tartness and round out the taste a little. I'm thinking this must be limited to force carbing since you'd have to add sulfites to kill of the bugs before carbonation, although maybe if you were careful you could play with a sulfite level that yeast can handle but not the bacteria. I haven't read through the whole thread; has anyone tried this out yet?

Chronobotanist
 
Just brewed a batch tonight and can't wait to try it. Hopefully it will be ready by New Years Eve!

Starting gravity measured 1.066

20131211_224052.jpg
 
I had kegged a batch of this a few weeks ago (fermented on Notty). Since I already had some in bottles from a prior batch, I decided to play around with back-sweetening and spicing it a bit for the Christmas season.

First, I broke apart and soaked one large cinnamon stick and about 20 allspice berries in a few ounces of cheap vodka a couple of days. After removing the solid bits, I combined it with 1.5tsp K-sorbate (to inhibit yeast activity because I like to bottle off the kegs to share) and a can of frozen concentrated apple juice. It was very milky-looking. After depressurizing the keg, I poured the whole thing into about 4.5 gallons of Graff and sealed it back up.

A few hours later, I tried the first sample. Nice. It gave the Graff a better hint of apple flavor. The spices were present but subtle and in no way dominating. It also stayed decently clear in spite of the milky addition. I may play around with different spice combos and amounts in the future, but I'll certainly do this again.
 
BigFloyd said:
I had kegged a batch of this a few weeks ago (fermented on Notty). Since I already had some in bottles from a prior batch, I decided to play around with back-sweetening and spicing it a bit for the Christmas season.

First, I broke apart and soaked one large cinnamon stick and about 20 allspice berries in a few ounces of cheap vodka a couple of days. After removing the solid bits, I combined it with 1.5tsp K-sorbate (to inhibit yeast activity because I like to bottle off the kegs to share) and a can of frozen concentrated apple juice. It was very milky-looking. After depressurizing the keg, I poured the whole thing into about 4.5 gallons of Graff and sealed it back up.

A few hours later, I tried the first sample. Nice. It gave the Graff a better hint of apple flavor. The spices were present but subtle and in no way dominating. It also stayed decently clear in spite of the milky addition. I may play around with different spice combos and amounts in the future, but I'll certainly do this again.

Thanks for the post, sounds awesome...
 
I made this with cheap store brand juice, crystal 120, and .5 fuggles. I just cracked open my first after one week in the bottle. Great twist on boring cider. Not too sweet, slightly malty, I cant directly taste the hops but I think that's a good thing. Thanks for the recipe and I will definitely be making this again!
 
Followed the original recipe exactly. Had the exact same OG and FG. It's been bottled for about 12 days now. I decided to crack one open and see what it was like. Super, super, sour. Tasted clean enough, but my goodness it is hella sour. I think back sweetening would take care of this, but I am bottling and not kegging and did not want to fool with bottle pasteurizing. Any chance this one will mellow out some with more time bottle conditioning?
 
Hey guys, I attempted a batch of this recently but it's become my red-headed step child...brewed it on a day that I was also doing two other batches back-to-back and sure enough, my lack of attention lead to putting two pounds of Crystal 60 into a 3.5gal recipe! Now this stuff tastes like nothing but acrid/burnt caramel with barely any bitterness and certainly no apple aroma/flavor. Here's some more info to give you an idea what I did:

2lb Rahr 2-row
2lb Munton's Crystal 60L
Made mini-mash of this with resulting in 2.2gal wort (1.036)
Boiled down to 1.3gal (1.058) with 0.5oz Tettnanger (6.1%AA) added for 60min
Chilled down to 70ºF
Added 2.0gal home pressed Cider (1.048)
Combined wort & cider for 3.3gal (1.050)

Fermentation was going slowly so I added some Fermaid-O and 0.3lb DME to help out the yeast, and body was lacking so added 0.3lb organic raisins (chopped up). Didn't take a reading but my estimation is this addition bumped up the OG another 6-8points.

That was three days ago and fermentation has settled down again - this morning I took a small sample and it tastes utterly awful. Easily the worst thing I've ever tasted out of a carboy...Now I'm considering added 1.5gal apple juice to revitalize the apple character and try to blend/dilute out that horrid burnt caramel flavor. Any thoughts on how well this will work? Is there a better way to balance out way too much Crystal 60?
 
Followed the original recipe exactly. Had the exact same OG and FG. It's been bottled for about 12 days now. I decided to crack one open and see what it was like. Super, super, sour. Tasted clean enough, but my goodness it is hella sour. I think back sweetening would take care of this, but I am bottling and not kegging and did not want to fool with bottle pasteurizing. Any chance this one will mellow out some with more time bottle conditioning?

Next time try to find juice with out ascorbic acid in it. I haven't had this issue, because I use Kirkland juice that is 100% apple juice with nothing else added. But I hear it will mellow out with some age.
 
Followed the original recipe exactly. Had the exact same OG and FG. It's been bottled for about 12 days now. I decided to crack one open and see what it was like. Super, super, sour. Tasted clean enough, but my goodness it is hella sour. I think back sweetening would take care of this, but I am bottling and not kegging and did not want to fool with bottle pasteurizing. Any chance this one will mellow out some with more time bottle conditioning?

I haven't seen this problem even though I use juice that has ascorbic acid. What yeast did you use? I've done it on S-04 and Nottingham and fermented starting at 64*F (with a 68*F finish). Both were only tart enough (before any back-sweetening) to have a nice, crisp note at the end, but not sour.

I used for my steeping grains - 4oz of Crystal 120L, 4oz of Crystal 80, 4oz Special-B and 2 oz of Carafoam.

You may want to try Windsor since it has a pretty low attenuation. You do want to keep it below 70*F to avoid esters.
 
This was organic publix juice and was the only juice I could find that did not have A. Acid listed.

I used Notty yeast. Fermented at 65F in my converted chest freezer.
 
Brewed November 13th following the OP's exact recipe. Used Saaz hops. Fermented for about 3 1/2 weeks and bottled on December 6th. I've tasted one every 3-4 days since then.

As of last night (10 days post bottling), very happy with results. My wife drinks beer and commercial ciders like Angry Orchard. She thinks it tastes like beer with apple flavoring, and really likes it. I think it tastes like a malty cider. Either way, I consider it a big success. Smells wonderfully like apple, has some sweetness to it, and a slight tart ending. Feels like a beer in your mouth. Nice color and head. It's still a little young, so I expect it to only get better.

Based on my results and reading damn near every post on this thread, I believe the keys to success are as follows:

- Use good cider/juice. I used Organics brand organic, unfiltered juice. Not from concentrate, no preservatives, no vitamin C. I think this is the most important thing.
- Follow the recipe. Of course, everyone wants to experiment and it's fun to do so. But I read plenty of posts where people changed the recipe and then complained later that it wasn't what they were expecting.

Thank you to the OP for a great recipe! :mug:
 
Followed the original recipe exactly. Had the exact same OG and FG. It's been bottled for about 12 days now. I decided to crack one open and see what it was like. Super, super, sour. Tasted clean enough, but my goodness it is hella sour. I think back sweetening would take care of this, but I am bottling and not kegging and did not want to fool with bottle pasteurizing. Any chance this one will mellow out some with more time bottle conditioning?


Mine too was a bit sour, not sure if this is typical of this Graff or not, really i do not detect any maltyness at all. I don't care for the ciders currently on the market, I find them to be way too sweet, so even with the sourness I like it as do all my friends. Oh and I used white Labs English Cider Yeast, next batch will be fermented with what the OP suggested.
 
Was thinking of brewing up a batch but leaving out the hops and dme. Anyone have any experience with this or guesses how it might turn out
 
Thanks Brandon O for posting this recipe. Mine fermented all the way down to 1.000 but surprisingly has just enough sweetness to balance the tart which I believe was the point. I used a clean Belgian strain; Wyeast 1762. I also chose Hallertauer for my hop. My wife actually put down her glass of wine in favor of this. Super easy brew day as well! Thanks again
 
I just found a 22oz bottle of this hiding in the back of my fridge! It's the last of my first batch I brewed in January. It's 11 months old to the day today, and this is the best one of the bunch. That's not to say the rest weren't great, but I feel like this one is smoother than the earlier ones were. Makes me think I should get another batch going soon. :)

For reference, these are my BeerSmith notes for my 8-gallon batch:
0.8lbs C60
0.1lbs torrified wheat (but if memory serves, I couldn't find TW so I used flaked . . . maybe?)
1.6lbs light DME
1.6lbs amber DME
0.5oz Cascade hops (9.1%)
6.5g Kirkland apple juice
1pkg Nottingham

Steep the 60L and torrified wheat in 1.2 gallons of water @ 155 degrees for 30 mins. Use grain bag. Sparge with 0.4 gallons 170 degree water (in 2nd pot) and combine wort parts. Add DME and bring to a boil. Add hops when boiling starts and boil for 30 mins.

Cool wort to 70 degrees. Pour the wort and apple juice into primary and pitch rehydrated yeast.
 
Okay. So after almost 4 weeks in the bottle I tried another. Much better. Way more mellow. Enjoyable finally!:ban::mug:
 
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