What is it??? Ale? Lager? ???

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MuchoGusto

MuchoGusto

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VIDEO AND QUESTION DIRECTED TO BEGINNING BREWERS ONLY. PLEASE READ THE PREMISE AND QUESTION CAREFULLY.



The short video is from an angle at the bottom of the carboy looking up slightly.

Is it a lager... ale... or can you even tell??? I raise that question because ales generally thought to be top fermentors and lager bottom fermentors.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
"Lagers" and "Ales" are so designated by their yeast strain and fermentation temperatures. If you're using a lager yeast at 50 degrees it's a lager. If you're using an ale yeast, it's an ale. I've seen big krausens on lagers, and very small krausens on ales in different beers so that's really not an indication at all.
 
Yooper said:
"Lagers" and "Ales" are so designated by their yeast strain and fermentation temperatures. If you're using a lager yeast at 50 degrees it's a lager. If you're using an ale yeast, it's an ale. I've seen big krausens on lagers, and very small krausens on ales in different beers so that's really not an indication at all.
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While you are certainly correct, there's a conception that lager yeast ferment on the bottom and ale yeast ferment on the top. That's my point.... since it's the beginning brewers forum.
 
The link is a free web video hosting site. There's "no danger". One doesn't need to click on the "ad" to view the video.
 
MuchoGusto said:
While you are certainly correct, there's a conception that lager yeast ferment on the bottom and ale yeast ferment on the top. That's my point.... since it's the beginning brewers forum.
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Ah, well, since you already seem to know the answer you are looking for I will refrain from interrupting your "conception".
 
Yooper said:
Ah, well, since you already seem to know the answer you are looking for I will refrain from interrupting your "conception".
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It's not my "conception". You didn't even watch the video I shot, but felt the need to interject sarcasm. Geez.
 
MuchoGusto said:
It's not my "conception". You didn't even watch the video I shot, but felt the need to interject sarcasm. Geez.
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Because the video wouldn't play- it required a plug in or something. But your question was "ale or lager" which I thought was a question. When I answered it, I thought it was going to be a discussion, as that is what happens in a forum.

Your answer to me curtained any possible discussion by saying that my answer didn't play along with your point. So I stopped participating and mentioned why.

I'm guessing that is why no one else responded.
 
there's a conception that lager yeast ferment on the bottom and ale yeast ferment on the top
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Like Yooper said, your insistance that you can tell an ale from a lager just by looking at it is silly. Top vs. Bottom fermentation is certainly not a black and white, it is a continuous spectrum of grey, and you can have as much surface activity on a lager as an ale, and vise versa. The yeast don't stay on the top or bottom in either case, they are throughout the solution.

What do you care if it is top fermented or bottom fermented? That doesn’t tell us anything about the real differences. The real important differences are the yeast strains and the fermenation temps they require.
 
TopherM said:
Like Yooper said, your insistance that you can tell an ale from a lager just by looking at it is silly. Top vs. Bottom fermentation is certainly not a black and white, it is a continuous spectrum of grey, and you can have as much surface activity on a lager as an ale, and vise versa. The yeast don't stay on the top or bottom in either case, they are throughout the solution.

What do you care if it is top fermented or bottom fermented? That doesn’t tell us anything about the real differences. The real important differences are the yeast strains and the fermenation temps they require.
Click to expand...

You're clearly misreading my original comment... "Is it a lager... ale... or can you even tell??? I raise that question because ales generally thought to be top fermentors and lager bottom fermentors (emphasis added)."

For the life of me I can't find anywhere where I insisted on anything. In fact, I pointed out a "conception" which in reality is a misconception. The point of the video was educational with a target audience of first-timer brewers.

The answer to the question is, no, one cannot tell if the yeast is an ale or lager by simple observation. The conception that lagers are bottom fermentors and ales are top fermentors is a misconception/misnomer if the criteria for determining the strain used is simple observation of a active wort fermentation.

The yeast is WLP051 California Ale V in the video.
 
carrolte said:
34,965 vs 16 posts.

Looks like little man syndrome.
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I guess you missed Rule #5 on posting... "Flamers* and Trolls* will be subject to immediate punishment up to and including being banned from the forum. Please choose your words carefully. We encourage debate but we also require you to behave and conduct yourself in a respectful manner at all times." The board goes on to define "flamer"....

Flamer: A person who deliberately makes inflammatory, derogatory, or slanderous posts or statements on the forums for the sole purpose of starting or feeding an argument. :rolleyes:
 
I really don't care where my yeast accumulates in my wort, just as long as they make great tasting beer.

I feel like people too often lose sight of what we're really trying to do here. There's absolutely no doctrine of science to this thing we call homebrewing. Do what makes good beer for yourself, feel free to share you ideas on here, but don't get defensive if someone tells you their opinion. This is a forum after all.
 
phenry said:
I really don't care where my yeast accumulates in my wort, just as long as they make great tasting beer.

I feel like people too often lose sight of what we're really trying to do here. There's absolutely no doctrine of science to this thing we call homebrewing. Do what makes good beer for yourself, feel free to share you ideas on here, but don't get defensive if someone tells you their opinion. This is a forum after all.
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If you're referencing me in your last statement "don't get defensive if someone tells you their opinion" then I guess you failed to read the "flamer" comment.
 
I think the answer to your question is: You can't tell from the video. As others have noted, the difference is the strain of yeast AND the fermentation temperature / process. The activity in the carboy tells you nothing except that it is, well, active. Also, lagering is as much a process as it is the yeast used. IMHO, if you ferment your beer with lager yeast and do not do the "lagering" process (lower temperatures, longer storage time, etc.), then you have produced an ale.
 
If you ferment your beer with lager yeast and do not do the "lagering" process (lower temperatures, longer storage time, etc.), then you have produced an ale.
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True Dat.....a beer made with a lager yeast but fermented at ale temps is a STEAM BEER (ALE), and it has been perfected in San Fransisco.
 
MuchoGusto said:
http://videobam.com/LkGcy

The short video is from an angle at the bottom of the carboy looking up slightly.

Is it a lager... ale... or can you even tell??? I raise that question because ales generally thought to be top fermentors and lager bottom fermentors.

Here's the YOUTUBE version.... http://youtu.be/NP9ArmfVNf8
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You put this in the pets and animals section of youtube? That's freakin hilarious!
 
To the OP: What yeast did you pitch? The packaging will tell you whether it's a lager or an ale.
 
Let me attempt to help here:

MuchoGusto, while your intentions may have been noble, you're coming across as a troll. You posted what appeared to be a very uneducated question. You later posts indicate you were looking for uneducated answers with the outward appearance of intending to step in and say, "No, you're all wrong, I know more than you." I know that sounds mean-spirited, but that's how it is being perceived.

That's not how this (or any) forum works. If you post a question in the beginners forum, make it an honest one from which to garner an answer you didn't previously know. If you have information to share, share it in the form of a statement. Nobody wants to hear, "I told you so" after you ask a question to which you already know the answer.
 
The way I took this whole mess was that Muchogusto was trying to play a little game with other beginner brewers in the beginner forum and have people try to guess if the video was showing an ale yeast or lager yeast in action. He later explained that, as Yooper pointed out, you can't tell by merely looking at it. He even told us what yeast he used in post #12.

Everyone then perceived it as a stupid question posted by a troll. It seems like no one really read or understood the original intent of the OP.

I feel like everyone got all bent out of shape because right away Yooper thought he was asking an honest question. There was a misunderstanding and then everyone started calling him a troll that was arguing with/attacking Yooper.
 
maxam said:
The way I took this whole mess was that Muchogusto was trying to play a little game with other beginner brewers in the beginner forum and have people try to guess if the video was showing an ale yeast or lager yeast in action. He later explained that, as Yooper pointed out, you can't tell by merely looking at it. He even told us what yeast he used in post #12.

Everyone then perceived it as a stupid question posted by a troll. It seems like no one really read or understood the original intent of the OP.

I feel like everyone got all bent out of shape because right away Yooper thought he was asking an honest question. There was a misunderstanding and then everyone started calling him a troll that was arguing with/attacking Yooper.
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Thanks "Max"... you hit the nail on the head! It is the "beginner's brewing forum". The premise was simple and directed to beginning brewers and not the "knowledgable". Watch the video and answer the following question... is it a lager or an ale or can you even tell considering the concept that lager yeast generally are considered bottom fermentors and ale yeast top fermentors. And from there... it all went to hell.
 
MuchoGusto said:
Thanks "Max"... you hit the nail on the head! It is the "beginner's brewing forum". The premise was simple and directed to beginning brewers and not the "knowledgable". Watch the video and answer the following question... is it a lager or an ale or can you even tell considering the concept that lager yeast generally are considered bottom fermentors and ale yeast top fermentors. And from there... it all went to hell.
Click to expand...

The road to hell is paved with good intentions. :)
 
It would have helped if you had originally phrased it better. Such as "Can you guess if this is an ale or lager yeast?"

Most people come on the beginners forum asking for assistance. Your original post definitely came off as asking a question, not a guessing game.

Just saying. It's the internet. Things don't always come off as you want them to.
 

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