Witbier Hoegaarden Witbier Clone - Pierre Celis White

Hoegaarden White Beer Clone

Tasting notes; Extremely pale in color. Bottle conditioned with yeast haze visible. Very exceptional, fine white satiny head with great head retention. Citrusy and sweet lemonlike floral aroma attributable to coriander and orange peel. Slight banana fruitiness from fermentation but not aggressive. Wonderful fresh, sassy and sexy yeast aroma. The floral notes of coriander, orange peel and herbal hops blend to become one complex alluring siren, clothed in sheer satin. Flavor impression finds the beer notably effervescent. Floral and fruity flavor blossom, but are not acidic. Full, sensual mouth feel without bitterness. Clean aftertaste refreshes. - Chuck

A ProMash Recipe Report

BJCP Style and Style Guidelines
-------------------------------

16-A Belgian & French Ale, Witbier

Min OG: 1.044 Max OG: 1.052
Min IBU: 10 Max IBU: 20
Min Clr: 2 Max Clr: 4 Color in SRM, Lovibond

Recipe Specifics
----------------

Batch Size (Gal): 5.00 Wort Size (Gal): 5.00
Total Grain (Lbs): 10.00
Anticipated OG: 1.047 Plato: 11.57
Anticipated SRM: 3.1
Anticipated IBU: 14.0
Brewhouse Efficiency: 75 %
Wort Boil Time: 75 Minutes

Pre-Boil Amounts
----------------

Evaporation Rate: 18.00 Percent Per Hour
Pre-Boil Wort Size: 6.45 Gal
Pre-Boil Gravity: 1.036 SG 9.05 Plato

Formulas Used
-------------

Brewhouse Efficiency and Predicted Gravity based on Method #1, Potential Used.
Final Gravity Calculation Based on Points.
Hard Value of Sucrose applied. Value for recipe: 46.2100 ppppg
% Yield Type used in Gravity Prediction: Fine Grind Dry Basis.

Color Formula Used: Morey
Hop IBU Formula Used: Rager

Additional Utilization Used For Plug Hops: 2 %
Additional Utilization Used For Pellet Hops: 10 %


Grain/Extract/Sugar

% Amount Name Origin Potential SRM
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
45.0 4.50 lbs. Pilsener Malt(2-Row) Continental Eu 1.035 1
45.0 4.50 lbs. Flaked Soft White Wheat America 1.034 2
10.0 1.00 lbs. Rice Hulls America 1.000 0

Potential represented as SG per pound per gallon.


Hops

Amount Name Form Alpha IBU Boil Time
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
0.13 oz. Millenium Pellet 15.00 10.2 75 min.
0.25 oz. Saazer Pellet 4.30 1.4 15 min.
0.25 oz. Super Styrian (AURORA) Pellet 7.00 2.3 15 min.


Extras

Amount Name Type Time
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
0.50 Oz Corriander Seed - crushed Spice 5 Min.(boil)
0.25 Oz Sweet Orange Peel Spice 5 Min.(boil)
0.50 Oz Corriander Seed - crushed Spice (add to 2ndary before racking)


Yeast
-----

WYeast 3944 Belgian White Beer


Water Profile
-------------

Profile: Des Moine - Fleur Drive
Profile known for: Drinking & Bathing

Calcium(Ca): 35.2 ppm
Magnesium(Mg): 21.3 ppm
Sodium(Na): 21.0 ppm
Sulfate(SO4): 54.0 ppm
Chloride(Cl): 39.0 ppm
biCarbonate(HCO3): 105.3 ppm

pH: 8.32


Mash Schedule
-------------

Mash Name: Simple Two Step

Total Grain Lbs: 9.00
Total Water Qts: 7.50 - Before Additional Infusions
Total Water Gal: 1.88 - Before Additional Infusions

Tun Thermal Mass: 0.00
Grain Temp: 60.00 F


Step Rest Start Stop Heat Infuse Infuse Infuse
Step Name Time Time Temp Temp Type Temp Amount Ratio
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Protein Step 0 15 124 120 Infuse 139 7.50 0.83
Sachrification Ste 0 45 158 152 Infuse 210 6.80 1.59


Total Water Qts: 14.30 - After Additional Infusions
Total Water Gal: 3.57 - After Additional Infusions
Total Mash Volume Gal: 4.29 - After Additional Infusions

All temperature measurements are degrees Fahrenheit.
All infusion amounts are in Quarts.
All infusion ratios are Quarts/Lbs.


Notes
-----

2nd addition of Corriander in the 2ndary. Homebrew Club claimed its a perfect clone of Hoegaarden.

Just the description of this beer alone makes me drool.

I had problem converting a similar grain bill with infusion mash. Is that a protein rest at 120°F for 15 minutes then a saccarification rest at 152°F for 45 minutes? What are the 124 and 158 temp then? I don't use Promash...

Did you made an iodine test? Just curious... What FG did you reach?

Have you noticed any sluggishness with 3944 after an initial fermentation rush/burst? I had to rouse the yeast (gently swirl the carboy) to wake up the yeast to keep on working in the beer. I didn't made a starter from an Activator... mistake.

Also, how did you prepared the coriander addition for the secondary?

Thanks in advance for any help!

Paco said:

I had problem converting a similar grain bill with infusion mash. Is that a protein rest at 120°F for 15 minutes then a saccarification rest at 152°F for 45 minutes? What are the 124 and 158 temp then? I don't use Promash...

Did you made an iodine test? Just curious... What FG did you reach?

Have you noticed any sluggishness with 3944 after an initial fermentation rush/burst? I had to rouse the yeast (gently swirl the carboy) to wake up the yeast to keep on working in the beer. I didn't made a starter from an Activator... mistake.

Also, how did you prepared the coriander addition for the secondary?

Thanks in advance for any help!

Click to expand...

Here goes...Protein step

• Water infusion amount 7.5 Qrts
• Water infusion temp 139F
• Mash temp range 120-124F (after addition)
• Mash 15 Minutes

Sachrification step

• Water Infusion amount 6.8 Qrts
• Water infusion temp 210F
• Mash temp range 152-158F (After Addition)
• Mash 45 minutes

I always do an iodine test. If its positive then I keep mashing. Usually a really good stir and another 15 minutes does it for me. I also use "5" Mash Treatment. Ask for it at your LHBS. You add it to the dough in to hit a 5pH.

My FG was about 1.012

I didn't have problems with my yeast at all. It was fresh, so no starter.

A good rule of thumb for beers over 1.040 make a starter. 1.047 isn't that high. Also for smack packs look at the date code. For every month of age use 1 day to let it swell. Therefore a 4 month old smack-pack should be at its best, after smacking, after 4 days. Thats w/o a starter.

As for coriander, I used the stuff from Walmart. Already crushed. I think it was Tones Brand. Its a local brand here. There nothing to using crushed, just add it.

Add the coriander at the end of the boil (5 min) and in the 2ndary. For the latter add it to the 2ndary then rack to it.... The smell is awesome!!!!

:rockin:

Thanks a lot! I appreciate.

If I may, one more thing I'd like to discuss. Most "authentic" Wit recipe call for bitter orange peal. I see you used sweet orange peal... can you elaborate? My first (drinkable) attempt at a Wit if too-orange-peal to me. That's dried orange bitter peal mostly; a small amount of sweet I also used from feeling. I'm really curious as to why you have chosen sweet orange peal instead of bitter orange.

Paco said:

Thanks a lot! I appreciate.

If I may, one more thing I'd like to discuss. Most "authentic" Wit recipe call for bitter orange peal. I see you used sweet orange peal... can you elaborate? My first (drinkable) attempt at a Wit if too-orange-peal to me. That's dried orange bitter peal mostly; a small amount of sweet I also used from feeling. I'm really curious as to why you have chosen sweet orange peal instead of bitter orange.

Click to expand...

My choice about orange peel was due to availability and knowledge of the type at the time. The original recipe had "curacao orange peel". Just until the other day I didn't know that curacao was the bitter variety. Also, when I first made this my LHBS didn't have either orange peel types. After I asked about this, they started stocking it for me.

I knew that walmart had orange peel (sweet type ~$0.65 for 1 oz) so thats what I used. You can use either type.

The amount of 1/4 oz. is so subtle that I don't think it makes a difference. Others may argue this point, but spices in beers need to be subtle so you can barely detect it in the beer. If its obvious, then its too much. There may be exceptions in some cases. Say a vanilla wheat or pumpkin spice beer where that is the key flavor of said beer.

That's not to say you can't taste it over the coarse of drinking the beer but it needs to not be so obvious. That's my opinion regarding this beer.

Some American wheat beers seem to have much more than a subtly. I'm thinking of one of these Old Maine Dinky Wheat or Leine Sunset Wheat. One seems to be too orange peel-like. I don't remember which one it was...


FYI - See links below....

Bitter Orange Peel 1 oz. - Spices - Flavorings - Ingredients

Sweet Orange Peel 1 oz. - Spices - Flavorings - Ingredients

FYI - I had a buddy make this beer with a decimal point error on the corriander!!!! He used 5 oz in the boil and 5 oz in the 2ndary.

USE ONLY A 1/2 OZ IN BOTH CASES!!!

We called the beer "Tarded's - I love Corriander Beer!" Its really, really spicy. I told him he had to add orange slices to the beer to cut the spice a bit...:cross: Man-law approved!!

Schlenkerla said:

FYI - I had a buddy make this beer with a decimal point error on the corriander!!!! He used 5 oz in the boil and 5 oz in the 2ndary.

USE ONLY A 1/2 OZ IN BOTH CASES!!!

We called the beer "Tarded's - I love Corriander Beer!" Its really, really spicy. I told him he had to add orange slices to the beer to cut the spice a bit...:cross: Man-law approved!!

Click to expand...

Ya know... I don't concider Miller a good enough beer to designate them "man-law makers", but that's a whole different subject.

What's always gotten to me is that Miller started the "no fruit in beer" law...and then 6 months later they release the miller chill with lime in it. Sort of hypocritical isn't it?

Hi,

I'm keen to try this beer, but I have a couple of questions (this will be my 5th all grain brew).
I noticed your water profile, my water is fairly soft (don't know exactly), and I usually use a ph 5.2 buffer. Should I be trying to match your water profile somehow?
As well, my LHBS only has "flaked wheat", how necessary is it to have the "Flaked Soft White Wheat America" in your recipe?

Thanks@!!

Sorry to chime in on someone elses recipe... If you don't know the specifics of your water, I wouldn't try messing around with it too much. I believe you do want hard water with a Belgian beer, but I don't think it's absolutely mandatory to produce an excellent final product. I have soft water also. I've brewed Wit's with and without water adjustments and haven't noticed any huge differences.

Thanks,

I am certainly no pro, I haven't even figured out my mash efficiency yet.

I would like to make this brew with Northern Brewer and Saaz, think that would work? I have on hand: Saaz, Norhtern Brewer, Fuggles, and Progress.
I know I'm off-track from the original recipe....

I always use Saaz in my wits, but that's me. I've always thought my recipe tastes a lot like hoegaarden also, but then again, it's not hard to match the profile. 50/50 pils/wheat basically.

CanadianNorth said:

Hi,

I'm keen to try this beer, but I have a couple of questions (this will be my 5th all grain brew).
I noticed your water profile, my water is fairly soft (don't know exactly), and I usually use a ph 5.2 buffer. Should I be trying to match your water profile somehow?
As well, my LHBS only has "flaked wheat", how necessary is it to have the "Flaked Soft White Wheat America" in your recipe?

Thanks@!!

Click to expand...

Flaked wheat is ok.

Don't worry about your water. If you can drink it from the tap and it tastes OK then its good for brewing. People manipulate water for hitting exact water profiles, my palate is not that precise, nor is my water screwed up taste-wise where I feel that I need to mess with it much. I use "5" to ensure I hit the pH target. The thought being is to get the optimum water for high mash efficiency.

Suthrncomfrt1884 said:

Sorry to chime in on someone elses recipe... If you don't know the specifics of your water, I wouldn't try messing around with it too much. I believe you do want hard water with a Belgian beer, but I don't think it's absolutely mandatory to produce an excellent final product. I have soft water also. I've brewed Wit's with and without water adjustments and haven't noticed any huge differences.

Click to expand...

No Problem. - Sometimes people want/need quick advice.

CanadianNorth said:

Thanks,

I am certainly no pro, I haven't even figured out my mash efficiency yet.

I would like to make this brew with Northern Brewer and Saaz, think that would work? I have on hand: Saaz, Norhtern Brewer, Fuggles, and Progress.
I know I'm off-track from the original recipe....

Click to expand...

Yes - Use the NB for bittering Saaz at 15 minutes. You're not off track by much, you still should get the same flavor profile provided you calculate the hop schedule using your hop alpha-acids to hit the IBU target.

Do you add the corriander in the secondary just as you would add dry hops or do you somehow sanitize (boil) the corriander first before adding them? I know hops are naturally averse to allowing bad stuff to grow on them to contaminate your beer... is the same true for coriander or is this just not a concern at all?

Yes - just add the coriander,as is, no boiling. The ABV will keep it from getting any toe hold of start for infecting the beer. The yeast population is so much in the majority that it out competes anything for food.

Suthrncomfrt1884 said:

Ya know... I don't concider Miller a good enough beer to designate them "man-law makers", but that's a whole different subject.

What's always gotten to me is that Miller started the "no fruit in beer" law...and then 6 months later they release the miller chill with lime in it. Sort of hypocritical isn't it?

Click to expand...

I think their marketing people drink too much, loosing alot of short term memory!!!!

Either that or the thought if you can't beat'em join them.

I've been noticing that the BMC people are starting to offer a lot more styles. The thought to lure in craft beer drinkers. Even the mid sized craft brewers like Leine & SA seem to have more style selections now.

Hey folks,

So I made this beer a couple of days ago, following the recipe as closely as I could. Unfortunately (due to a couple of problems*) my O.G. came out at 1.036 and not the planned 1.047. Even though I used a 1 litre starter

I am wondering, should I put in some light DME to bump up the O.G. or leave it? I checked the gravity, and after two days it was 1.020.

(The biggest 'problem' was that I forget the 5.2, which I normally use, and I think my Ph was high)

Any thoughts?

Whats up with your beer now? 1.036 is not bad, somewhat light, still OK. Did you add anything to it post boil?

I was confused at first when I saw that you use 50% flaked wheat instead of raw (unmalted) wheat, but after doing a little research I've learned that flaked wheat is essentially raw wheat that has been gelatinized and de-husked. Add rice hulls, and you have gelatinized raw wheat! Brilliant!

Schlenkerla said:

Whats up with your beer now? 1.036 is not bad, somewhat light, still OK. Did you add anything to it post boil?

Click to expand...

Thanks,

I wasn't sure what to do , but I ended up just leaving it. The beer is in the 2ndary now, with the extra corriander. I am going to keg it in a week or two, and I'll let you know how the tasting goes. I guess the lesson is: Do you O.G. reading prior to cooldown and aeration.

I'll let you know how it tastes when I get it in the keg!

Happy hollidays!

Just been punching through a keg of this stuff I made four weeks ago - A++!!!!




Great recipe, I'll be putting on another of these in the winter for sure. i might go with a little more peel and a little less corrinander.

I'm glad you liked it, before you tweak, retry the mash with "5" so you get the higher OG. Unless you are certain that you don't want that much coriander or bump the orange peel up a bit.

The spice diminishes with age. If you drink this fast, then less might be better.

I love the effect of coriander and orange peel. :rockin:

I've been looking for a good Hoegaarden clone and I'm planning to try this recipe this weekend with high hopes. I had some Galena hops left over so I'm going to use them in place of the Millenium which are hard to find.

Question: Do you strain your wort when transferring to the primary or do you want the coriander to go in the fermenter? Since I have started bagging my hops I can go either way, just don't want to overdo the spice if that's not the target. Since the recipe calls for adding more to the secondary, it's not obvious to me.

Also, is there anything required to prepare/sanitize the coriander before adding to the secondary?

Thanks.

BrewJohnson said:

I've been looking for a good Hoegaarden clone and I'm planning to try this recipe this weekend with high hopes. I had some Galena hops left over so I'm going to use them in place of the Millenium which are hard to find.

Question: Do you strain your wort when transferring to the primary or do you want the coriander to go in the fermenter? Since I have started bagging my hops I can go either way, just don't want to overdo the spice if that's not the target. Since the recipe calls for adding more to the secondary, it's not obvious to me.

Also, is there anything required to prepare/sanitize the coriander before adding to the secondary?

Thanks.

Click to expand...

The spice is very, very subtle. Its not supposed be tasted in every sip. No filtering, dump it all to the primary.

No sanitizing needed for the coriander on the 2ndary.

Thanks for the quick response. Got my yeast starter going and I'll be making this tomorrow. I'll report back on my results.

Cheers

I brewed this on Friday. Nailed the OG of 1.047 but TOTALLY FORGOT to add the coriander and orange peel at the 5 minute mark. I decided to toss them both into a hop bad and then into the primary fermenter. Not sure how that is gonna turn out but I suspect fine. Wyeast 3944 is slowly chugging away. Sample was at 1.024 this morning.

You might add the coriander in the 2ndary too, as much of it is lost in yeast scrubbing activity.

I'd give it a 50/50 coin toss.

Quick Question.

I don't use a secondary and I bottle instead of keg. Will one of the following work for the 2nd coriander addition?

1. Add it to the bottom of the bottling bucket, fill on top of it.

2. Boil it for a few minutes with the priming sugar, add the mixture to the bottling bucket.

Cheers!

Kevin

1/2 way through my 2nd batch of this one. Great stuff. Used a little more orange peel this time, and a little less coriander. My coriander is finely ground, so that may be why I need a little less (or it's just preference).

I am finding that the beer is clearing a little over time, is this usual or is it just me?

CanadianNorth said:

1/2 way through my 2nd batch of this one. Great stuff. Used a little more orange peel this time, and a little less coriander. My coriander is finely ground, so that may be why I need a little less (or it's just preference).

I am finding that the beer is clearing a little over time, is this usual or is it just me?

Click to expand...

Mine clears over time too. Give the keg a shake to see how low it is on yah and that should fix yer problem!

If you bottled it give the bottles a few gentle rolls before popping one open.

beerandcoding said:

Quick Question.

I don't use a secondary and I bottle instead of keg. Will one of the following work for the 2nd coriander addition?

1. Add it to the bottom of the bottling bucket, fill on top of it.

2. Boil it for a few minutes with the priming sugar, add the mixture to the bottling bucket.

Cheers!

Kevin

Click to expand...

I'd do the #2 option.

R2-D2 said:

I brewed this on Friday. Nailed the OG of 1.047 but TOTALLY FORGOT to add the coriander and orange peel at the 5 minute mark. I decided to toss them both into a hop bad and then into the primary fermenter. Not sure how that is gonna turn out but I suspect fine. Wyeast 3944 is slowly chugging away. Sample was at 1.024 this morning.

Click to expand...

Bottled this last week after two weeks in secondary and just tasted a sample. Very good clone, a little strong on the coriander at this point but I expect that will subside with some time. My beers don't seem to hit their stride until after two months. This will be great in late April and through the early summer.

This is a great beer. Thanks for the recipe!

So its not Belgian Pilsen or Begian Pale ale malt? is that just straight up 2 row?

And, also, is it only being racked to a secondary for the sake of the second coriander addition?

coldrice said:

And, also, is it only being racked to a secondary for the sake of the second coriander addition?

Click to expand...

Yes, that and to let it finish. Think of it like dry hopping, but in this case its spice.

First off, thank you for sharing this recipe. Secondly, I have not moved to all-grain yet; has anyone done a successful conversion of this recipe to partial extract? If not, any advice on such conversion?

I made this back in January and have been drinking it for a while now. The coriander is very pronounced and hasn't mellowed over time like I had hoped. It is still a great wit, but with the strong coriander spice it is a little more like Blue Moon than Hoegaarden. I will make it again but probably without the coriander addition to the secondary.

So i will be brewing this recipe this weekend. Just place my order for the ingredients. One problem is that my shop does not have WYEAST 3944 in stock right now and does not carry White Labs WLP400 either. They told me that WYEAST suggests WYEAST 3463 which is the Hoegaarden Forbidden Fruit yeast. Do you think this will be fine with this recipe or should I drive the 45 minutes to the other shop near me that has the 3944?

Thanks.

Hmmm... well, it's the first of their recommendations. I have 3944 and 3463... I"m just about to brew my next batch of 40 liters (~10 G); I was to split with 3944 and 3864 but this might tempt me to try 3463 instead of 3864... last batch with 3864 was really nice though...

I'd say go for it!