New Nitrogen Stout Tap...what went wrong?

This past weekend I was given a beautiful Perlick Stainless Stout Faucet and regulator and i picked up a tank of G-mix to get it all setup.

I'll run through the scenario.

Party was happening Saturday night. So i kegged my chocolate milk stout and force carbed it overnight. i know this isnt my preferred method of carbing, but it works in a pinch.

So the next night I hook up the nitrogen setup, put on my chocolate milk stout and give it a couple pulls. Light cascading head and a little creaminess that lasted about 10 minutes. The problem was, after a little bit the beer was completely flat. I was instructed to turn the Nitrogen to 25PSI to pour. I did this and the beer was rocketing out of the stout faucet. (i have 10ft lines)

The party progress and we switched to swill beer for drinking games etc... and the kegerator went untouched until tonight. I got home from work and wanted a milk stout. So i poured one off the stout faucet at rocket speed and there was no cascade and it was immediately flat. I took the nitrogen off the keg, burped some of the gas, reset the pressure to around 8PSI and noticed the gas post had some beer on it (like it had back pressured up into the line) so i flushed the line. Tried to pour a beer at 8PSI and it came out much slower, but with no cascade and no creaminess, flat right out of the glass..

Can anyone provide any insight as to what my issue is here? I turned the nitrogen off and hooked up a CO2 line to it now to give it a little more carb over the next couple days.

Simply put, your beer wasn't/isn't carbed to style yet. Give it at least a week more on CO2 before trying to serve it...

Cheers!

I force carbe "Chilled stout" with co2 for 24 hours at 30lbs.
Then put it on mixed gas also at 30lbs..
You shouldn't carb with mixed gas... This works for me

Double-R said:

I force carbe "Chilled stout" with co2 for 24 hours at 30lbs.
Then put it on mixed gas also at 30lbs..
You shouldn't carb with mixed gas... This works for me

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i did force carb it with CO2 at 30lbs from friday night until it went on (i also did the shakey shake method when i first kegged it)

then it was put on mixed gas around 25lbs to serve (after i burped the keg to relieve some pressure) but it was pouring so fast it was ridiculous, so i turned down the pressure a little.

and then come monday night it didnt matter if it was on high pressure or low pressure for mixed gas, i wasn't getting any of the properties of pouring it on mixed gas through a stout faucet, it was either coming out at normal speed (low pressure) flat, or rocket speed (higher pressure) still flat, no cascading, no creaminess, nothing

i know better than trying to carb with mixed gas, i carb with my CO2 first

Hmm carbonation issues aside, beer shouldn't be rocketing out of a stout faucet. I don't have any direct experience with these, but isn't the whole point that you pass it through a restrictor plate at high pressure? Is the restrictor plate actually installed? Does Perlick even make a stout faucet?

zachattack said:

Hmm carbonation issues aside, beer shouldn't be rocketing out of a stout faucet. I don't have any direct experience with these, but isn't the whole point that you pass it through a restrictor plate at high pressure? Is the restrictor plate actually installed? Does Perlick even make a stout faucet?

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I did check when I first opened the box and there is a small restrictor plate inside the top of the nozzle. it looks like a small disc with about 5 little pin sized holes punched into it that the beer passes through.

Here is the link to the tap I have. I purchased it to accompany my other 6 Perlick 525SS's
https://www.perlick.com/store/webcatalog2.php?catno=1&sectno=1&grpno=6

it looks slightly different in style from the one pictured, but this is where it was ordered from

I like the set it and forget it method for my stout faucet. I put it on CO2 at about 8 lbs for a couple of weeks. Then hook up the beergas at 30-35 lbs. Nice pour, good cascade and good head.

The issue im having is that if i have it at 30-35lbs of pressure i'd be almost afraid it would crack the glass when it comes out of the faucet (ok so im exaggerating of course, but even at 25psi it was really coming out much faster than ive ever seen out of a stout tap)

I'm running 3/16 inner diam beer line .. at around 5 feet.
Read something about beer line resistance that affect pour speed somewhere around here..??

Line length doesn't matter as much for a stout tap, since most of the restriction comes from the faucet.

ArcticBear, sorry I can't be more helpful! If it's coming out that fast, it sounds like the restrictor plate isn't really providing any restriction

Sounds like the faucet is either assembled wrong or missing parts, and it's allowing the beer to bypass the restrictor plate. I've never seen a perlick nitro faucet, but on the micromatics there's a plastic "flow straightener" that presses the restrictor plate tight against the faucet body.

On the bottom section of the faucet, if you unscrew it you see a small circular plate with 5 or 6 holes in it, and a small little piece of plastic that sits in the nozzle below it, keeping the restrictor plate tight to the faucet. there is no way beer is bypassing that plate, it just seems like the plate isn't really doing anything

Zach, is correct line length is immaterial, odds are that the CO2 came out of solution so your most likely under carbed. Now check to see if the restricter plate is still there hasn't shifted.

beaksnbeer said:

Zach, is correct line length is immaterial, odds are that the CO2 came out of solution so your most likely under carbed. Now check to see if the restricter plate is still there hasn't shifted.

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just pulled the nozzle, still there. once its screwed in there is nowhere for it to go due to the little plastic piece.

i can understand why the beer would go flat after a little bit of sitting if its undercarbed, but that wouldnt explain for the lightening speed it's funneling out of the faucet, and also acting like it had no nitrogen in the solution at all

ArcticBear said:

On the bottom section of the faucet, if you unscrew it you see a small circular plate with 5 or 6 holes in it, and a small little piece of plastic that sits in the nozzle below it, keeping the restrictor plate tight to the faucet. there is no way beer is bypassing that plate, it just seems like the plate isn't really doing anything

Click to expand...

If the plate only has 5 tiny holes, and beer is rocketing out of the faucet as bad as you describe at pressures less than 30psi, then beer is most certainly getting around the plate somehow. Is there maybe supposed to be an o-ring that the plate presses against to seal around the circumference?

i'm not sure if it's missing an o-ring or not. The perlick site is fairly vague and the packaging came with no instructions or anything like that...

ArcticBear said:

.... and also acting like it had no nitrogen in the solution at all

Click to expand...

If you're referring to the cascading head, that effect is mostly a function of the CO2 getting broken into tiny bubbles by being forced through the small holes in the restrictor plate at high pressure. This effect can be achieved without any nitrogen. And the amounts of nitrogen that dissolve into solution would be minute either way, especially since you've only had nitrogen pressure on the beer for a very short time.

JuanMoore said:

If you're referring to the cascading head, that effect is mostly a function of the CO2 getting broken into tiny bubbles by being forced through the small holes in the restrictor plate at high pressure. This effect can be achieved without any nitrogen. And the amounts of nitrogen that dissolve into solution would be minute either way, especially since you've only had nitrogen pressure on the beer for a very short time.

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maybe this is a carbonation issue after all then. if the beer isn't carbed enough it isn't getting enough resistance from the restriction plate.

here are a few really crappy cell phone pics to show you what i've been referring to regarding the bottom of the nozzle:













it really irritates me to have such sh!tty pictures because i am/was a hobby photographer and just sold my camera body, so now i have nothing to take good pictars with

Check....

Are you missing Nozzle O-Ring..#6

there is only one O-ring in position #6 (your chart says 2) but that stout faucet/nozzle is slightly different than what i have.

i did order that one and that is the one pictured on perlicks website that i linked before, but if you look at the pictures i posted, my faucet is just slightly different. i'm not sure if its purely aesthetic or if they made internal design changes to this version.

I did disassemble the top half of my faucet when i received it and the top half appears to be much different from that as well...

i'm not sure where to go from here, it's hard to tell if its missing pieces without something more accurate to compare it to.

ArcticBear said:

i'm not sure if it's missing an o-ring or not. The perlick site is fairly vague and the packaging came with no instructions or anything like that...

Click to expand...

Looks similar to this tap http://www.chicompany.net/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=376_17_16&products_id=1790


Edit: too slow. But that is 2 sources saying 2 o-rings before the restrcitor. Maybe they messed up the design and need the thickness of the 2 orings or the plate is loose which would cause your issue.

that seems like it must be the issue here... i'll order up a couple O-rings and go from there...

this is the 2nd time this month i've purchased a higher end item and been shipped a subpar product.

my blichmann 20g kettle was missing the parts to secure the brewmometer, so i was left with a kettle i couldnt use for a couple days until the parts came in (kudos to Midwest for taking care of this without issue)

and now the stout faucet missing an O-ring... little things, but it sucks dealing with them

http://rochesterstorefixture.com/beveragecatalog.html


Go to bottom page. hit index, to find page of item

awesome, thank you guys so much for the help.

i'll order up a couple now and update with the results when they come in

ordered up some o-rings for the hell of it but it appears this is a different variation

http://www.stainlessbrewing.com/Stainless-Stout-Faucet_p_142.html

that shows the model i received, also at a good deal less than what i paid for it. also on another thread here someone was sent an image of the one perlick claims on their webstore and the one i was sent and they are both the SF2001 and SF2001A models by taprite...

I was under the impression that Perlick manufactured these and it was stainless, but if you go to taprite they show the same image for the SF2001 and its listed as chrome. I paid a good bit more because i thought i was getting stainless and a perlick product... i'm not amused and will be placing a call with perlick this afternoon

Perlick has it listed as "Imported" not listed as their brand

beaksnbeer said:

Perlick has it listed as "Imported" not listed as their brand

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that doesn't exactly give a clear explanation that it is not their product.

I read that as "imported stout and ale" [style] faucet

as in something you would see for stouts and ale's across the pond... not that they didn't manufacture the faucet themselves

Huh, see where you might see that I saw "imported" as Chinese crap I have a UK made and Tap-Rite made exclusively for AB special which was dropped when Inbev started their purchase no problems with either.

supposedly the one i was shipped is a Tap-Rite newer style of the SF2001, labeled by Taprite as the SF2001A

i just contacted Taprite requesting assistance.

I have had nothing but "we'll get back to you" and then nothing from Perlick. I am not impressed with their customer service and am at the point of requesting an RMA to send this faucet back and purchase one elsewhere

Any news on this?

TRG said:

Any news on this?

Click to expand...

I received a few Emails from Taprite, and I fell off with them due to being overwhelmed with work and the holidays, i should send them an update as well.

I had a buddy come by to do some trouble shooting and we noticed 2 things. There was a missing o-ring, that sits above the restrictor plate to keep a tight seal and keep the restrictor plate in place. Also we noticed that the holes drilled into the restrictor plate were significantly larger than the holes he had drilled in his micro-matic restrictor plate.

We swapped out the restrictor plate and added the oring and it works 1000x better. I should get in touch with Taprite regardless but i was just happy it was pouring better... still not as efficient as i feel it should be running, but it at least gives the nitrogen effects now that it didnt before.

Thanks for the reply.

I'm asking because I just set up my own nitro tap. I took it apart and there were both Orings and the plastic bit beneath the restrictor. When I pour at 30psi, I get nothing but foam from the tap. I suspect that the stout is over-carbed. It was carbonated to about 2.0 volumes with pure CO2, then I purged and put it on the 70/30 beergas. I'm going to try and decarbonate it down to about 1.6-1.8 volumes, then give it another go.

Do you know what size of holes the new plate has?

Optimal carbonation is around 1.2 volumes for the nitro faucet.

The holes are smaller enough for something like mechanical pencil led, but its hard to tell the exact size...i may just solder 2 or 3 of the holes closed and see if that makes it better before buying a new disc...

Thanks for the advice. I will report back with some results...