Scotch Whiskey: Want to make my own.

I regularly get together with some family friends and one of them said he would pay for my costs to make a single malt scotch... Now... I know how to make scotch... its pretty simple... and I have access to a Still, however... I do not have access to a good barrel... I was thinking about doing something a bit wierd...

I was going to toast up some oak chips and char a few of them to simulate the oak character you would get in a barrel. Then let it age in a carboy for about 5 years before checking it... Does anyone think this will work?

Thanks,

Jason

oak in sealed carboy. put in closet. dont touch. i think it may be close.

Just a general FYI: he's not asking about distilling, keep the discussion on topic or it will get locked.

Thanks I don't need any info on Distilling ... Just suggestions on oak amounts, if it will work or if I'm wasting my time. Thanks for the Heads up brad

The Wood Aging episode of Brew Strong might give you some pointers. Its specifically geared toward beer, but I bet it would give you a starting point.

I don't see why it wouldn't work. It's a long time but if you have the extra carboys you could do two batches with different amounts/types of oak chips.This site has some different types: oak and cabernet oak. The Barbecue Store - Search Results - For all your barbecue, barbeque and bbq outdoor needs

Vinters and distillers use barrels for a reason:
The shortcuts don't produce the same results.
You can add oak chips or liquid smoke, but it won't be 20-year old scotch
unless you keep it in an oak barrel for 20 years.

Being an avid scotch lover I would recommend the barrel. If you're going to wait 5 or more years for something you might as well go big. (I recommend you actually make a giant batch and pull some off at 5 years, and leave some more for as long as you can stand)

If you have to, you could probably do with anywhere from 2-6ozs of oak cubes. (keep in mind I've never personally done this) The longer you age the more you'll need to retain character of the oak, and it also depends on the character you want. Not all scotch as the same amount of 'wood' in it.

I know you didn't suggest that you would, but FOR GOD SAKES DO NOT PUT LIQUID SMOKE IN THIS!!!! You could, and probably should use a healty amount of peat smoked malt. It will be hard to get the character of an islay whisky though, perhaps a lowland/highland/orkney profile is the best thing to shoot for.

Otherwise, can I be your friend?

HairyDogBrewing said:

Vinters and distillers use barrels for a reason:
The shortcuts don't produce the same results.
You can add oak chips or liquid smoke, but it won't be 20-year old scotch
unless you keep it in an oak barrel for 20 years.

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some wineries are starting to use stainless and oak chips, and are using an oxygen infuser to simulate what they would get from a barrel.

I'd do like what some people to with beer to simulate wood aging; put it in a carboy, then drive an oak dowel through the bunghole then forget about it for a long time. There is your wood character and mild oxygenation. It just depends on how long you plan on aging it.

Don't forget that, unlike bourbon, the flavor from scotch comes from more than just the oak. You can take vodka or any other clean spirit of your choice and age it in oak, you'll never get the peaty flavor that scotch whisky has.

I can tell you, though, that you'll make something pretty darn good! I've made "bourbon" myself using quart jars, oak chips, and a clean corn spirit. Just make sure that the oak is charred well and only use it once (if making bourbon). I stuffed the quart jars with charred oak, topped off with alcohol, and let it sit for around a year in the garage. Don't leave it inside as temperature changes are rather important.

It wasn't as strong as the stuff you buy in the store, but I actually liked it more because of it. Extremely smooth and drinkable! Definitely tasted like bourbon!

I know that barrels breathe and lose 3% alcohol through this process per year. It's called the angel's share. I would just get a barrel.

Sonnyder said:

I know that barrels breathe and lose 3% alcohol through this process per year. It's called the angel's share. I would just get a barrel.

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I would not dig up a thread from 2009....

Wasn't aware there was protocol or etiquette here. Maybe you should either comment on the post or not? That's what I would do.

Sonnyder said:

Wasn't aware there was protocol or etiquette here. Maybe you should either comment on the post or not? That's what I would do.

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It's NOT what you just did.

A few things... you will have to take care to get that peat smoked flavor as mentioned above.

As for oak, typically scotch never uses virgin barrels. The buy used wine or sherry barrels. I'd do the same.

one of my favorite inexpensive every-day kinda drinking scotch is Cragganmore Sherry Finish. Get a sherry/port barrel if you can find some.

And I'd edit out the line about the still in your post. Distilling is illegal, and you don't know who is watching. . .

jd3 said:

I would not dig up a thread from 2009....

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why is it always the noobs that have a smartass comment to make?

And I'd edit out the line about the still in your post. Distilling is illegal, and you don't know who is watching. . .

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He may have access to a licensed craft distillery that may allow him to use his ingredients to ferment and they distill the liquid, pay taxes and take it home. Not sure if this is how he was going it or not but I can't say one way or the other.

Also is the originator of the thread still on here? If so how is the scotch project coming along. That would be really interesting to find out about. I figured the evaporation is extremely important to the strengthening of the alcohol and flavor.

jd3 said:

I would not dig up a thread from 2009....

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Nothing wrong with digging up an old thread with good information especially when it's regarding a project taking several years.

I too am curious how this is panning out 2 years later. Surely the OP is sneaking tastes if he's still around. Looks like his last post was 5-19-11

IrregularPulse said:

Nothing wrong with digging up an old thread with good information especially when it's regarding a project taking several years.

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Plus, these conversations are not just for the people posting now. For example, someone might google this type of project 5 years from now, and come up with this forum in the results. The information people post on forums is useful in the past, now, and potentially in the future! So if you have useful info, share away.

jd3 said:

I would not dig up a thread from 2009....

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I would not mind your permanent absence from this forum.

This thread may be really old and im really late to the party BUT the smaller the batch the less time it needs to be exposed to oak. It takes a long time to infuse and meld 55gallons of spirits but only weeks/months to do it to 5gallons.

I mnow the topic of used barrels has co.e up. In scotland they buy used burbon barrels from the U.S because of the whit oak and the seasoning from the burbon. Adventure in homebrew....www.homebrew.org and a few others sell 5gallon once used burbon berrals for 75-80.00

Drinking Made Easy visited:

http://www.fogsenddistillery.com/hand_craft.html

in Monterey. They supply the spirits and the oak splint to add for flavoring. Doesn't take much time to get flavor. The interviewed distiller makes the case that time doesn't necessarily make a better whiskey.

www.artisan-distiller.net

has some good info on wood and aging. Extractives are only one part of the story. The diffusivity of ethanol and water are different in oak, so you tend to get a larger amount of water leaving the barrel than predicted by their vapor pressures. There's still plenty of ethanol left in an old scotch barrel that has lost half it's volume. If you were to evaporate or boil off until you were at half volume, there would be barely any ethanol left. This diffusive loss is key to long term maturation, and thus far cannot be hastened artificially.

Bowtiebrewery said:

I regularly get together with some family friends and one of them said he would pay for my costs to make a single malt scotch... Now... I know how to make scotch... its pretty simple... and I have access to a Still, however... I do not have access to a good barrel... I was thinking about doing something a bit wierd...

I was going to toast up some oak chips and char a few of them to simulate the oak character you would get in a barrel. Then let it age in a carboy for about 5 years before checking it... Does anyone think this will work?

Thanks,

Jason

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Scotch is aged in used bourbon barrels. Using freshly charred wood is going to give a different character, more like bourbon.

Back to the fermenting end of things, what would be the ideal grain bill and yeast for a good highland Single malt?

Aka I want to brew a peaty beer

wooda2008 said:

Back to the fermenting end of things, what would be the ideal grain bill and yeast for a good highland Single malt?

Aka I want to brew a peaty beer

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um, malt?

peat in scotch comes from trying the malt with a peat fire.

yes, but which malt? do most of them do marris otter? Is peat tried malt available in the states?

Do a search or buy one od the many booke on amazon. I cannot for the lofe of remember the name of the malt. Also as far as yeast is concerned you wanna probably go with a high gravity dry yeast. Safa and lavlin both make yeasts designed for whiskeys and other high gravity apirits.

my understanding is you can get fake flavorings, supposedly that is a huge business. I'm unsure how to get them though.
I know you can go to Templeton, IA and get a barrel for about $100, and Templeton Rye is my favorite scotch or whiskey....and i'm half british and have been drinking my ENTIRE life. It was even Al Capone's favorite, he supposedly had a case snuck into alcatraz for him. Anyways, just buy a barrel.

wooda2008 said:

yes, but which malt? do most of them do marris otter? Is peat tried malt available in the states?

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A quick Google search turned up several results which ship within the US:

http://www.rebelbrewer.com/shoppingcart/products/Peat-Smoked-Malt-%28by-the-pound%29.html
http://www.midwestsupplies.com/peated-malt-simpson-s-1-lb.html
http://www.northernbrewer.com/shop/peat-smoked-porter-extract-kit.html

The 2nd link compares peated malt to a stronger-flavored version of German rauchmalz, I'd check out some rauchbier recipes and move towards a slightly lower percentage. Actually, looking closer at the product review on the 1st link recommends using 5% or less and letting it age to mellow out.

As far as resurrecting old threads, who cares as long as it is an informative thread? It isn't like (s)he starting posting on someone's "Hi, I'm new here!" thread from 3 years ago.

peated malt is horrible, that's the johnny walker blue style stuff.........not worth it.

I'm interested how this turned out. I've never understood why people don't like it when old threads get resurrected.

But doesn't scotch have to be made in Scotland, or otherwise it is just whiskey?

Don't need a high gravity yeast. Scotch wash starts at 1.060 or so.

rellot said:

I've never understood why people don't like it when old threads get resurrected.

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Probably because then you need to read the whole thing and you can't be the first person to respond

I've heard that peat malt should be kept to a low percentage in beer, lest it overpower everything else, but I was under the impression that it made up a large percentage of the grain bill for a scotch; I really don't have any sources, though, and it sounds like nobody here has actually brewed scotch before...

You might be able to find some YouTube videos of tours of scotch distilleries, and those might contain some useful details; I remember seeing one a few years ago.

You could simulate things in the carboy. I use tricks like this to test things at my distillery. It never has quite the same nuance as the barrel but it will get you close. You need 1cm of oak cubed per 200 ml of whiskey. The trick is getting used wood. I would probably try to buy an old barrel and cut it up then re-char the oak.

By the way I cover this and a lot more in my book on this topic:

http://www.amazon.com/How-Make-Whiskey-Bryan-Davis

Sorry for the shameless plug!

-Bryan

rellot said:

I'm interested how this turned out. I've never understood why people don't like it when old threads get resurrected.

But doesn't scotch have to be made in Scotland, or otherwise it is just whiskey?

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That is true.

Scotch also get some of the flavor from the area it's made in.