Belgian Triple- the "light" version

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Yooper

Ale's What Cures You!
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I have a challenge for you guys. I want to make something very much like a triple. But.......lower alcohol for a session beer. Fairly thin bodied, fruity, all that "triple" goodness, without the high ABV.

I've only ever made one Belgian before, so I'm a complete novice with that style. But I read a description of "Belgian Harvest Ale" in the Williams Brewing catalogue that said, "an ale in the farmhouse tradition- a bit lower in alcohol that some of the strong triple and trappist styles, and fermented with a yeast that leaves a clean (for Belgian) balance in the finished ale. Not as smooth as a lager, this one has a wonderfully complex flavor anchored by the German pale/ Munich malt and beet sugar base, and accented by the unique flavors imparted by the Belgian yeast strain and European hops. Alcohol 6%, IBUs 33. Includes 8 pounds of blended malt and beet sugar, etc".

So, for a drinkable but lower alcohol triple, what would you do? I don't have any munich malt, but can order some. I have WLP530 yeast. I have plenty of 2-row, maris otter, other grains, lots of hops.
 
I've made a similar sounding Belgian pale ale, and that was ok. I guess I was thinking more of a lower ABV clone of La Fin Du Monde. That would be tough, I know, because of the balance and the amount of malt required to make it, but I'd like something like it. I want a beer that I can drink several of, though, without getting ripped every night.
 
Not quite what you are looking for, but perhaps you could adapt. Here is a recipe that I used for a low ABV belgian. My intent was to use it to develop a yeast cake for a follow on of a high OG brew.

Blonde Ale
Belgian Blond Ale


Type: All Grain
Date: 1/3/2009
Batch Size: 5.00 gal
Brewer: Jsta Porter
Boil Size: 6.60 gal Asst Brewer:
Boil Time: 90 min Equipment: Brew Pot (7.5 gal) and Cooler (48 qt)
Taste Rating(out of 50): 35.0 Brewhouse Efficiency: 75.00
Taste Notes:

Ingredients

Amount Item Type % or IBU
9.50 lb Pilsner (2 Row) Ger (2.0 SRM) Grain 90.48 %
0.50 lb Caramel/Crystal Malt - 20L (20.0 SRM) Grain 4.76 %
0.75 oz Czech Sladek [7.80 %] (90 min) Hops 21.7 IBU
0.25 oz Czech Sladek [7.80 %] (15 min) Hops 3.3 IBU
0.25 oz Czech Sladek [7.80 %] (4 min) Hops 1.1 IBU
0.50 lb Candi Sugar, Clear (0.5 SRM) Sugar 4.76 %
1 Pkgs Belgian Ale (Wyeast Labs #1214) Yeast-Ale



Beer Profile

Est Original Gravity: 1.059 SG
Measured Original Gravity: 1.054 SG
Est Final Gravity: 1.015 SG Measured Final Gravity: 1.007 SG
Estimated Alcohol by Vol: 5.81 % Actual Alcohol by Vol: 6.13 %
Bitterness: 26.1 IBU Calories: 237 cal/pint
Est Color: 5.0 SRM Color: Color


Mash Profile

Mash Name: Single Infusion, Medium Body Total Grain Weight: 10.00 lb
Sparge Water: 3.18 gal Grain Temperature: 60.0 F
Sparge Temperature: 168.0 F TunTemperature: 100.0 F
Adjust Temp for Equipment: TRUE Mash PH: 5.4 PH

Single Infusion, Medium Body Step Time Name Description Step Temp
60 min Mash In Add 12.50 qt of water at 170.0 F 154.0 F
10 min Mash Out Add 7.00 qt of water at 198.2 F 168.0 F



Mash Notes: Simple single infusion mash for use with most modern well modified grains (about 95% of the time).
Carbonation and Storage

Carbonation Type: Corn Sugar Volumes of CO2: 2.4
Pressure/Weight: 3.8 oz Carbonation Used: -
Keg/Bottling Temperature: 60.0 F Age for: 28.0 days
Storage Temperature: 52.0 F

Notes


Created with BeerSmith
 
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This sounds intriguing. I wonder, since traditionally a Triple supposedly had triple the malts and triple the abv...how about scaling a traditional tripel grainbill back to the abv range you're shooting for?

For example I just grabbed this supposed tripel of the web

Amount Item Type % or IBU
12.65 lb Pilsen (Dingemans) (1.6 SRM) Grain 85.76 %
0.55 lb Carahell (Weyermann) (13.0 SRM) Grain 3.73 %
0.55 lb Caramel Malt - 20L (Briess) (20.0 SRM) Grain 3.73 %
1.04 oz Northern Brewer [8.50 %] (60 min) Hops 24.9 IBU
1.04 oz Saaz [3.40 %] (60 min) Hops 9.0 IBU
1.00 lb Candi Sugar, Horehound (75.0 SRM) Sugar 6.78 %
0 Pkgs Trappist Ale (White Labs #WLP500) [StarterYeast-Ale

What if you put this (or any) recipe you like into beersmith, then start juggling til you got the anticipated abv to the range you wanted..

The interesting thing with your idea is that you will probably REALLY get a lot of character from the yeasties...Maybe more than in a higher grav grainbill...

It could be really awesome.

OH, it just occured to me, when you came into town did you try Dragonmead's Wench Water? I'm pretty sure I had a half that night...I'm just wondering if that would fit your bill.

Wench Water Belgian Pale Ale

This golden-colored Belgian Pale Ale includes Belgian Candi Sugar and coriander, as well as sweet orange peel which imparts a slightly citrus quality to the beer. The result is a sweetly spiced beer with very low hop and malt characters ... A great summer thirst quencher. ABV 5.2%
 
No, I didn't even try it. I will NOT drink a beer with coriander in it! No ****ing wits for me. And definitely NO fruit! Come on- you knew that!

I like the Belgian yeast flavors, but I don't want any spices or fruits added. I really liked a Belgian pale ale I made last summer, but I want a triple in flavor this time.

Revvy, I think that might be the ticket. Make a triple, but half the recipe, or at least adjust it in Beersmith. I would like to have something on tap to have three of, without getting smashed.
 
No, I didn't even try it. I will NOT drink a beer with coriander in it! No ****ing wits for me. And definitely NO fruit! Come on- you knew that!

I like the Belgian yeast flavors, but I don't want any spices or fruits added. I really liked a Belgian pale ale I made last summer, but I want a triple in flavor this time.

Revvy, I think that might be the ticket. Make a triple, but half the recipe, or at least adjust it in Beersmith. I would like to have something on tap to have three of, without getting smashed.

I actually didn't know wenches water had corriander in it when I tasted it, not until I posted the note from the website here...I never tasted it in it.

But yeah I think doing a scaling may get you a taste you want with not the abv...I'd be interesting in brewing this up too (damn, I just flushed a beligan yeast cake down the sink 20 minutes ago.)

The trick will be finding a good base recipe...
 
Because if you want that "La Fin du Monde" taste, use their yeast.
LFdM was the first beer to really excite me, and is still one of my favorites

If it is not available use some good Belgian yeast
 
This thread is interesting. I was thinking about turning my brown biscuit ale into a belgian. It's almost there anyway with the biscut and special B anyway.
 
Revvy, I think that might be the ticket. Make a triple, but half the recipe, or at least adjust it in Beersmith. I would like to have something on tap to have three of, without getting smashed.

The tripel is all about the yeast; I agree with the comments about finding a yeast strain you like and using that...probably ferment a little warm to get some more esters as well as make the yeast happy. I've made several tripels with Wyeast 1388 Belgian Strong Ale and have been pleased.

I wonder how much of the special flavors come from the yeast being a little stressed due to a (relatively) high OG wort in a tripel? I'm conjecturing here.

I think the idea of finding a tripel you like, taking out the candi sugar (it's supposed to boost ABV while keeping the beer thin, but you *don't* want to raise ABV), and adjusting the hops accordingly is the way to go.

We brewed this tripel; it's extract-steep, but if anything going AG would help it. Perhaps it would be a good base. For your situation, I'd drop the candi and probably some of the DME. 0# candi and 6# DME puts the OG at 1.053.

4 gallon boil with late malt addition. 1.081 OG, 1.018 FG, 27 IBU calc'd

Amount Item Type % or IBU
5.50 lb Extra Light Dry Extract (3.0 SRM)
1.50 lb Extra Light Dry Extract (3.0 SRM) (late add)
0.25 lb Aromatic Malt (26.0 SRM)
0.25 lb Cara-Pils/Dextrine (2.0 SRM)
1.75 oz Styrian Goldings [3.50 %] (60 min) Hops 14.2 IBU
0.17 oz Goldings, East Kent [5.00 %] (60 min) Hops 2.0 IBU
0.50 oz Styrian Goldings [3.50 %] (15 min) Hops 2.0 IBU
8.00 oz Malto-Dextrine (Boil 60.0 min) Misc
1.50 lb Candi Sugar, Clear (0.5 SRM) Sugar 16.67 %
 
I would just stick with maybe 7-8 lbs Pils, a pound of sugar or so, then the 530 you have (unless you want the Unibroue) yeast.

I'm brewing a Tripel next and it's just 28 lbs pils with 4-5 pounds sugar with 5 gallons onto WY3787 and the other 5 to WLP500 yeast. The 3787 is the same as the 530. I might add a touch of aromatic, but unsure.

You could always add some munich if you desire (maybe half pound in 5 gallons) as well as some wheat malt (again, half pound to a full pound). I'd shoot for a gravity in the 1.045-1.047 range with the anticipation that you are going to get below 1.010 as a final gravity - putting you in the upper 4%-lower 5% abv range. For reference, the Belgian Pale I brewed while brewcasting went from 1.060 to 1.010 (83% AA) without any issues. There was less than a half pound of simple sugar in that recipe.

I have had no problems getting either the 500 or the 3787 over 80% apparent attenuation.


On a side note, I don't see how you can like a spicy tripel, but adding some corriander to a wit pushes you over the edge ;) I think Fin du Monde is inherently much spicier than any wit.
 
Check out my dekonick clone:

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f12/belgian-pale-ale-rec-63383/#post947493

You could cut out a bit of the pilsner and split the caravienne and the bisquit in half to make it lighter in flavor. Using a pound or so of flaked corn will also greatly lighten the beer...or maybe about 0.5-075 lb of sugar.

WLP550 makes for a very clean belgian ale...it's not near as fruity as the rest of the belgian yeasts.
 
I think I'm going to do an American Blonde with wyeast 1388.

How has your tripel been? With the argentian cascades? I've been avoiding my Marris Otter/AC smash for the last couple weeks...it still tastes like bug spray to me...but a couple brew buddies don't mind it...

I've been waiting for an update in your thread...

If you haven't seen my comments on my smash,,,,check out the last few posts...

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f36/smash-advice-mo-argentinian-cascade-92765/
 
I would just stick with maybe 7-8 lbs Pils, a pound of sugar or so, then the 530 you have (unless you want the Unibroue) yeast.

I'm brewing a Tripel next and it's just 28 lbs pils with 4-5 pounds sugar with 5 gallons onto WY3787 and the other 5 to WLP500 yeast. The 3787 is the same as the 530. I might add a touch of aromatic, but unsure.

You could always add some munich if you desire (maybe half pound in 5 gallons) as well as some wheat malt (again, half pound to a full pound). I'd shoot for a gravity in the 1.045-1.047 range with the anticipation that you are going to get below 1.010 as a final gravity - putting you in the upper 4%-lower 5% abv range. For reference, the Belgian Pale I brewed while brewcasting went from 1.060 to 1.010 (83% AA) without any issues. There was less than a half pound of simple sugar in that recipe.

I have had no problems getting either the 500 or the 3787 over 80% apparent attenuation.


On a side note, I don't see how you can like a spicy tripel, but adding some corriander to a wit pushes you over the edge ;) I think Fin du Monde is inherently much spicier than any wit.

Yooper, basically you should just make a Cream Ale with low IBUs of noble hops and use a belgian yeast ;)

I like Pseudo's plan. I like a triple, I really do. I just drink too much every day to be able to put a triple on tap.

I've made something similar to what DB is saying- and I'll do that in the summer again. I guess with my lower ABV triple, I'm wanting the extra stuff that comes with a triple. As to hating coriander, and liking Fin du Monde, what can I say? I'm a woman, so it doesn't have to make sense!
 
Yooper, basically you should just make a Cream Ale with low IBUs of noble hops and use a belgian yeast

Out of all the suggestions I've yet read, this is closest to the mark, methinks.

Really, we're talking about a SMaSH, here. Tripel is, purely, Pils, 10-20% invert sugar, a touch of noble hops, and yeast. Ditch the invert sugar and reduce the Pils to get an OG of less than 1060. I wouldn't worry about a protein rest, because the yeast will be so low-floc that clarity won't be much of an issue. Set your sacc rest relatively high for vollmundigkeit. Bitter with noble hops or Styrian Goldings and keep the BU:GU below 1:2. I like Wyeast 3787 (the Westmalle strain), but also think Ardennes would be a really interesting experiment (I love that yeast!).

That's how I'd do it, anyway. If I wanted to ensure a bit of maltiness, I'd decoct instead of using a specialty grain. Tradition, you know. ;) If you really want to go nuts, use Fix's 40/60/70 mash regime - start at 40C, rest 30 minutes. Transition to 60C with infusion of boiling liquor. Rest at 60C for 30 minutes. Transition from 60 to 70C with external heat and rest for 30 minutes. I've done this the past couple SMaSH brews, and the results have been outstanding.

Cheers,

Bob
 
I really wouldn't mash high for any belgian-style. I usually aim around the 150°F area to try to get them around 85% attenuation.

If she's looking for a beer that she can quaff all day long, she's going to want it to be dry so it's easier to drink and "digest" as the monks would say. This was part of the reason why Belgian beers are known for their dryness - because that's what the monks lived off of during times of fasting, so they needed to be able to put a lot down without feeling too full.
 
True, Chef. But the specific requirement of a Tripel-like yet lighter beer makes me think she wants a Tripel but without the alcohol. If you simply reduce the grist/sugar without modifying the process by which the fermentables are extracted, you also reduce the precursors which provide the requisite mouthfeel of a Tripel. Thus my recommendation. It's subtle, but the Duvel is in the details. (groan)

Bob
 
Thus my recommendation. It's subtle, but the Duvel is in the details. (groan)

Bob

you are evil and must be destroyed :)

I've got some Wyeast 3864 on the shopping list next week -- I was looking to do something similar. I love tripel and I love session beers.

Just need to get the competition porter and dunkelweizens out of the carboys.
Tis' the season for Saisons and getting my Belgian on !
 
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