First lager fermentation question-

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TayWhyte

TayWhyte

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Thanks in advance for any advice.

I've done almost a hundred Ale fermentations but finally brewed my first lager 4 weeks ago. A dopplebock with the OG of 1.087.

Here are the particulars:
Pitched a 1.6L starter of Wyeast 2206 Bavarian Lager yeast at 50 deg F.
It's been at a constant temp of 49-50F
After 4 weeks the Gravity is only down to 1.041(14.6 Brix)

Here's my question:
Is this too high after this length of time? Should it be closer to terminal gravity (I'm shooting for 1.020- 1.021) or am I OK?
I was planning a 6 week primary and I decided to check the gravity.... I was hoping that it would have been closer. I'm just not experienced with lager fermentations so I don't really know what to look for

Thanks for any advice.
 
That is a very big beer. My own target would have been to pitch around 750 billion cells. Yes, after that period of time you should be at FG--it's unlikely to move any further at this point. I fear you underpitched dramatically.

As to a rectification strategy...you might try warming it up to high 50s and re-suspending your yeast. Failing that, you will have to repitch. I'd suggest leaving it in the mid-to-high 50s and tossing in two or three packets of S-23 rehydrated. It's a yeast that works well and ferments clean at that temperature.

Good luck! As an aside, for your next lager fermentation pitch 1.5 million cells per ml per degree Plato and you won't get stuck. Some will view that as overpitching, but it's hard for me to see the downside.
 
The typical lager fermentation schedule would be to ferment at the 50F until the beer reaches ahout 75% of final gravity.

If you started at 1.087 and expected a FG of 1.020, then 75% would be 1.036. You are sitting at 1.041, so you are pretty close, you probably just underpitched your yeast a bit. Maybe get the temp up to about 54-55 and give it a few more days or it isn't going to really hurt to go ahead with the rest of the schedule:

1) 48 hour diacetyl rest at about 70F should take out those last few points.

2) Lower temp 5 degrees a day from 70-65-55-45-40-35 and lager 6-8 weeks at around 35-40F, or as gradually as you can if you don't have an exact temp controller.

That should turn out splendid!
 
How long are you intending on lagering this beast for? Please say at least 3-4 months.
 
My schedule is a 6 week fermentation, D-rest, and a 4 month lager. I wanted to try it on the 1st of June
 
You gave the SG reading in brix- did you check it with a hydrometer? There reason I ask is that a refractometer reading is wrong when alcohol is in the mix. I'd make sure to check with a hydrometer if you used a refractometer.
 
osagedr said:
That is a very big beer. My own target would have been to pitch around 750 billion cells. Yes, after that period of time you should be at FG--it's unlikely to move any further at this point. I fear you underpitched dramatically.
Click to expand...

According to Mr. Malty calculator for a lager at 1.087 I would need to start 3!? packs of liquid yeast in a 2.4L starter on my stir plate. Really? Three packs of yeast? and then into 2 1/2 L of starter? Wow... looks like I need to get a bigger erlenmeyer flask!
 
I checked it with my refractometer but I put it in the Beersmith tool with the "fermenting wort" setting and it calculated to 1.041. Same as I do with my ales.
 
TayWhyte said:
According to Mr. Malty calculator for a lager at 1.087 I would need to start 3!? packs of liquid yeast in a 2.4L starter on my stir plate. Really? Three packs of yeast? and then into 2 1/2 L of starter? Wow... looks like I need to get a bigger erlenmeyer flask!
Click to expand...

Your options to pitch enough yeast into a lager that big are to step up your starter, or repitch from slurry, or to use dry yeast, or a crapload of liquid yeast, which can get very expensive.

Repitch from slurry is a great option IMO provided you have the ability to plan ahead and take good care of your yeast.
 
stepping my starter I didn't think about most likely because I've always had great results with may ales and about 1.6L starter or have re-pitched a slury. Good call, thanks. As far as harvesting and re-using lager yeast, can I harvest/wash it when I rack to a secondary to lager and keep it as I would my ale yeasts in my sanitized jars/vials at cool temps in my fridge?
 
Yes, you can rinse and re-use your lager yeast just like an ale yeast. You can even propogate it at room as opposed to fermentation temperatures so it doesn't take forever. But the easiest for a big lager like that is to just repitch slurry; I wouldn't hesitate to hang onto the slurry for a couple of weeks if necessary before repitching. Some have gone even longer. Having said that, my slurry is usually very clean because I leave my wort in the kettle for a couple hours after chilling to try to get things as clear as possible before racking to the fermenter.
 
TayWhyte said:
I checked it with my refractometer but I put it in the Beersmith tool with the "fermenting wort" setting and it calculated to 1.041. Same as I do with my ales.
Click to expand...

Just for the heck of it, it might be worthwhile to check the SG with a hydrometer. You can see how close you are (or aren't) to the diacetyl rest.
 
osagedr said:
As to a rectification strategy...you might try warming it up to high 50s and re-suspending your yeast. Failing that, you will have to repitch. I'd suggest leaving it in the mid-to-high 50s and tossing in two or three packets of S-23 rehydrated. It's a yeast that works well and ferments clean at that temperature.
Click to expand...

I raised the temp to 56F and roused the yeast. It has dropped .003 in 2 days. to 1.038.
So do I want to repitch?
I went to get a couple of packages of S23 and the HBS was out. She suggested that get the same liquid yeast that I pitched with and re-pitch with that.

What about making another starter with the Wyeast 2206 Bavarian and pitch that?
If so:
1. do I need to drop the temp back down to 50 for the yeast/ will 56 put out off flavors at this point?
2. Do I need to try to oxengenate again... maybe by racking to a secondary to pick up some O2 or with that cause oxygenation issues?
3. should I hold off to go and get the dry yeast?
Thanks.

Slainte
 
Hmmm...uncharted territory for me. Too bad you can't get the S-23. I guess about a two-litre starter with the 2206 made at room temperature, pitched at high krausen (12-18 hours) would work. Leave the temperature where it is.

Definitely do NOT oxygenate again (you can oxygenate the starter). You don't want to oxydize your beer.

Good luck!
 
osagedr said:
That is a very big beer. My own target would have been to pitch around 750 billion cells. Yes, after that period of time you should be at FG--it's unlikely to move any further at this point. I fear you underpitched dramatically.

As to a rectification strategy...you might try warming it up to high 50s and re-suspending your yeast. Failing that, you will have to repitch. I'd suggest leaving it in the mid-to-high 50s and tossing in two or three packets of S-23 rehydrated. It's a yeast that works well and ferments clean at that temperature.

Good luck! As an aside, for your next lager fermentation pitch 1.5 million cells per ml per degree Plato and you won't get stuck. Some will view that as overpitching, but it's hard for me to see the downside.
Click to expand...
I had the same issue. Underpitched a 1085 Pilsner and it only came down to 1040 after 2 weeks. Brought it from garage to house for 2 days and it hit the target of 1016.
 
Hmmm I've never done a lager that big before, but I'd suspect 3 packets of 34/70 dry yeast would ferment that 1080 down to 1020 within 2-3 weeks at 53f temps. If you re-brew this beer and aren't comfortable getting the liquid yeast slurry big enoughh, try that route.
 
osagedr said:
Hmmm...uncharted territory for me. Too bad you can't get the S-23. I guess about a two-litre starter with the 2206 made at room temperature, pitched at high krausen (12-18 hours) would work. Leave the temperature where it is.

Definitely do NOT oxygenate again (you can oxygenate the starter). You don't want to oxydize your beer.

Good luck!
Click to expand...

Thanks for all of the advice you've all given.
This is what I did and how it turned out.

I made a 1.5 L starter with 2206 on a stir plate and when it was at high krausen it pitched the entire starter to the beer at 56F. ( I usually let it floc, decant and pitch, but this time I just wanted good active yeast). I did not oxygenate the beer.

After two weeks the gravity went from 1.038 to 1.020. Right in the range that I was shooting for. I hope the Starter and the 2nd fermentation temp didn't mess with the flavor profile too badly.
I'm going to give it a good D-rest and lager for 4-6 months.

Thanks to all for your help.
 

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