Cider... a different approach. And some questions

So I decided to approach cider in a somewhat unorthodox manner. Basically I am trying a batch the same way i would approach all-grain brewing. This was a test batch using apples from my yard and some wild trees in the neighbourhood. The mix is about 1/3 granny smiths, 1/3 macintosh, 1/12 royal gala, 1/12 yellow super tart wild crabapples and 1/6 red crabapples. Not sure of the variety names of the latter two. Instead of juicing I cored, peeled and sliced the apples and then extracted for 80min at 175F (perhaps this exttracts all of the starches and sugars at once, as opposed to gradual release of sugars from juice?). Then I strained the apples out of the must (in this case it was almost like an apple "wort") added 1/2lb of wildflower honey, boiled to mix and sterilize, cooled and started fermenting with EC1118. My brew setup sits in the basement where it is almost perpetually 62-65F.The overall batch is going to be about 2 gal (like I said, test size). Since this is my first cider, I have a couple questions...

1. My primary fermenters are huge things (10 imperial gal.) I intend to rack promptly when fermentation slows to prevent oxidation as much as possible. Will a 3 gal secondary be small enough, or should I be thinking about doing something to cut down on the head space in my secondary?

2. I intend to add a couple pounds of applewood chips to my secondary. Has anyone tried this? Should I keep the wood in for the entire time?

3. I am going to ferment to dry. How much wildflower honey should I add as priming sugar to avoid bombs? Is it worth it to bottle pasteurize? Any tips on this?

Cheers!

I havent really delved much into ciders other than store bought apple juice and sugar, so not sure how much help I could be. Big question I have is what kind of original gravity did you come up with? And what is that compared to a 'traditional' cider?

Original Gravity was 1.080. That's at the mid-high end of the cider range I believe, but not extremely high. Right now I'm 41 hours into the primary fermentation and it's really active. About a bubble/second through the airlock.

An update on progress... need some advice here. So My cider has been in the primary for roughly 4 days now, with very very active fermentation, and I noticed this morning that my airlock activity has slowed dramatically. The airlock is now under positive pressure but no more bubbling. S.G. is now 1.005 (O.G. was 1.080). My hydrometer sample tasted rather dry, but didn't have the alcoholic taste I thought it would (not that that's a bad thing). This morning I added about 1/2 cup of brown sugar dissolved in water to give the yeasties something to do and keep the fermentation going to prevent oxidation and buy me a day or so to get my secondary ready. I wasn't expecting this to ferment dry so quickly and so I wasn't quite ready to rack as of this morning. Should I be racking this to secondary as soon as it's plowed through the new sugar? It seems like it has been a very very short time in primary. Is EC1118 just that quick?

Long story short. Lalvin EC-1118 is a monster.

That's the impression I'm getting.

if you are under airlock.......no need to be in a hurry. I usually leave my ciders in primary for a month or so.

If you primary in an open bucket that is a different matter.

Under an airlock of course. Moved to secondary last night and cider is now resting on about a pound of toasted applewood chips. S.G. is now right on 1.000. No more airlock activity, but still some signs of slow fermentation. It's beginning to clear slowly and is very dry. Strangely my wife seems to think it has a vinegar taste, but I don't taste it. I think she was confusing ethanol with vinegar. It's not hot, but it feels like it might be dangerous. I'll keep you all posted

i'm curious as to how you came to the conclusion that cooking it like a beer was the way to go?? seems like making a salad using a cake recipe. not knocking it at all just curious

Dinnerstick... I had a pile of apples from some trees in the yard, and no press. So I was basically trying to extract fermentables from apples without a way to smush them. As it was, I got a nice high SG (~1.070) on just the extracted juice. The "apple wort" for lack of a better way to put it, was nice and tart and had a really nice crab-appley tannin character to it. The only thing I'm worried about at this point is pectin haze. I've added pectic enzyme and it's startign to clear up in secondary, so we'll see how it goes. I know it goes against conventional wisdom, so we'll chalk this one up to experimentation. I am a biologist after all. You seem to have the cider thing figured out pretty well, so I'm all ears if you have any suggestions from here on out.

Cheers

Very interesting. Subscribed.

hello to a fellow biologist, what's your field? mine's plant development. it's amazing you got such a high gravity. and if it tastes good going in, and is fermentable, then there's a good bet it will taste good when it's done so i await updates
i also have very limited access to a press so for very small batches i sometimes hand press (cheese grater attachment on a food processor followed by wringing in triple layer of cheesecloth) which is tough work but i can do a 5L batch of that without killing myself, but cider from a centrifugal juicer works surprisingly well, and is worth a go if you have one or can get a cheapo. won't match the efficiency of a good press but it'll make you a good cider in the end

ajbram said:

resting on about a pound of toasted applewood chips.

Click to expand...

Have you used that much wood before? Maybe applewood is far milder than oak, but I thought 1-2 ounces would be sufficient. Might want to taste it frequently to get it off before it's too much.

Dinnerstick - I'm a theoretical/community ecologist. Hello to a fellow biologist as well. Most of my biologist friends are also home brewers.

Mast - I've been tasting it frequently and you're right. it is getting a little woody (in a nice way so far) after a fairly short time. I might leave it on the wood for a couple more days and then re-rack it. I'm also thinking about bringing home a filter setup from the lab and filtering the to get rid of wood bits and haze before racking. This should speed up bulk aging process a bit.

As of this morning, things are tasting pretty decent. SG is now 0.999 and fermentation is very slow.

Progress update. The cider has now been in secondary for a week. Still showing some signs of slow fermentation (slight fizzing, bubbles on surface) but no real airlock activity to speak of. SG is steady still at 0.999. The cider has been lying on applewood now for a week and the flavour is starting to get really nice. Dry and crisp with a nice toasty oaky note and beginning to smooth out. I'm thinking now I need to get it off the wood this weekend and let things clear up. I'm thinking about running it through a filter to get wood bits and haze out, and then re-racking with a small amount of the unfiltered cider to keep some yeast for carbing.

Does this approach sound reasonable?

You do not need to keep them active. Some will survive till bottling. I let mine sit for 6 months in the secondary before bottling and the yeasties are still alive. It takes me 3 weeks to carb, so it takes longer, but it will have been about 7 months since I started, so whats another week...
It seems you lack... Patience. Cider is a slow process.
I guess, I'll throw my name in the hat... I'm a clinical/hospital scientist. I prefer Med Tech, but still a "scientist".

Unfortunately, the choice was made for me. After checking the OG on friday morning, I came home friday night to find that a wood chip had gotten stuck in the spigot of my secondary. A slow leak had drained about 1/5 of my precious nectar. Since I couldn't stop the leak without draining the whole thing, and I had no other secondary receptacle available, I racked to the bottling bucket, primed and bottled. Bottles are now conditioning and carbing. All of a sudden, the cider has gone very clear. My plastic Perrier bottle is becoming nicely turgid. I think I'll be ready to pasteurize in a couple days.

Sashurlow - I wasn't worried about keeping the yeasties active. I was more concerned about filtering them out by using a 2.7um filter membrane. when i racked to the bottling bucket, I passed the cider through said filter on the way to the bucket. I added a quick shot of unfiltered cider to get some yeast back in it. Seems to be working out well so far and I'll keep everyone posted on the progress

Another status update. I pasteurized my bottles this morning. After 6 days of bottle carbing, they are nicely carbonated, clear and off-dry. The wood character comes through nicely, and some apple flavours are starting to make a return. I think with some bottle conditioning this will be very good. For Dinnerstick and others who were wondering, my early decision to extract fermentables by steeping apples seems to have had no adverse effects. I don't get a "cooked" flavour and there is no pectic haze. I'll let you now how this turns out after it has aged a bit.

As someone else without a press, subscribed.

So... I got impatient last night. I had a bottle in the fridge to see how long it would take tor the re-suspended lees to settle down. Long story short - the cider looked nice and clear so I succumbed to temptation and cracked it.

I am declaring this one successful. The carbonation was just right (Thanks Pappers for the sticky on stovetop pasteurizing). It has a nice prosecco-ish dryness. Most of the applewood character is on the nose, and some apple shines through on the palate. Finish is crisp and clean.

I'm resisting temptation now and letting the rest age. I'm hopeful that it picks up some more appley-ness and the woody nose gets a bit more muted with time. So far, so good though!

You said this batch was about two gallons- how many pounds of apples did that require? I might be interested in trying this in a five gallon batch.

I didn't weigh the apples. I used about a 5 gallon bucket full though.

Progress Update:

The cider has been sitting for a few weeks now, and sadly there is not much left of it. For me, it's ideal. Despite having heat-steeped the apples, it is very very clear and has no pectin haze at all. Slightly more yellow colour than some of the commercial ciders out there, but not too yellow. The aroma is somewhat woody, with a sweet apple undertone. Mouth feel is perfect, slightly creamy like a nice prosecco, but with more exuberant bubbles. Pretty heavily carbed, but I like a bubbly beverage. Flavour is dry and crisp with a bit of woodiness adding complexity, some green apples shine through on the tongue and the finish is super clean and crisp with no aftertaste whatsoever. It leaves your tastebuds longing for another sip... that's prpobably why it's disappearing so fast.

I have had several people try this and the reviews are good...

Friends who like Strongbow generally like it and seem to be intrigued by the woody nuances.

My brother, who likes a sweeter carbed cider likes it and comments on its clarity and clean finish.

A good friend, who usually drinks pilsner-style beers and doesn't normally go for ciders called it "The best alcoholic beverage I have ever tasted"

SUCCESS!!!!!

Thanks for blazing the trail and congratz on your successful brew! I'm new to brewing and the forum, but after I get a basic beer or two down, cider is my next target.

I have no press, but I want to start at the apple. I've been doing homemade applesauce and applebutter, so I was leaning to cooking the apples first, myself.

On a side note, I'm also a scientist; degree in physics with lots of random zoology from my wife.

I think you got lucky on your clarity, but that was probably a great mix of apples. that high of heat usually sets the pectins. I just might try your toasted apple wood next year. I'll be bottling this years' cider today or tomorrow, and it'll probably be gone by superbowl time.

Thanks for the congrats Fizzy. Cheers to a fellow scientist. Rockape... I don't think there was much luck involved. I was worried too about the heat setting the pectins and I was prepared to settle for a hazy beverage. Looking back, I did use a very fine straining bag, which may have helped to filter out the larger pectin polymer chunks. The must was actually quite clear compared to traditionally pressed cider or juice before it began fermenting and I attribute that to the straining. I basically left all the solid apple bits and pectins in the bag. I also hit this with pectic enzyme when it went into secondary and it began clearing up pretty quick. Now it's gin-clear in the bottle. I also feel that the heat steeping apples was a tremendously effecient way to extract fermentables. OG of juice alone was ~1.070.

That all being said, it was a kick-ass blend of apples. I moved to my place in Sept this year and wasn't set up to brew until most of the apples were gone. I discovered that the trees were granny smiths and macintoshes, and down the road were 2 trees on public land: 1 with red and 1 with yellow crabapples. Sadly, I had to argue with the geese over who got the last several pounds. Next year I'll get on it early and make a big batch. 14 bottles just didn't cut it

Just tasted this again... now six+ months of aging and it's absolutely fantastic. Will be making a big big batch next year. Some of the wood has moderated, but is still there... more on the nose and imparting a very nice smoothness. Alcohol not detectable when you taste it, but it is when you try to stand up after. Awesome cider.