My ribs need help...

Since building my UDS, I've made spares three times. I've used the 3-2-1 method each time. The first time, I didn't have the temp under control yet and it had gotten to 350*. They tasted great but were a little over-done (meat completely falling off the bone. The second time, temps were under control (230* the whole time), but for whatever reason I wasn't impressed. The 3rd time, again temps were under control, but the meat came out very dry and somewhat tasteless; didn't really pull back from the bone either.

I'm planning to try again this weekend, but thought I'd look for some suggestions as to what I may be doing wrong.

I'm using a St. Louis cut and my own rub that I put on over mustard about an hour before cooking. The rub is, for the most part, brown sugar, paprika, pepper and salt.

I'm a good cook and understand the whole "cook to temp not time thing" but for now, I'm trying to get a good grip on the low and slow method in my UDS, so I'm trying to keep popping the lid to a minimum.

Any thoughts?

Thanks,

Moose

This is how i do my ribs

Use a basic dry rub, can be store bought but i use home made, overnight in fridge
Take ribs out of fridge 2-3 hours before cooking and let em get to room temp
Put em in smoker for 4 hours, heavy smoke for first hour then none after that, use hickory or cherry wood
Take off smoke
2 diff ways to do next step,
if they are done then use sweet baby rays bbq sauce and throw em on the grill and brush with bbq sauce for 30min to 1 hour and serve
or
brush em with bbq sauce and wrap in tin foil and put em on grill with INDIRECT heat for 1 hour then take em out of the foil and grill as in previous step

good ribs are a lot of work but i guarantee once you get it right it is worth it. Everyone I feed my ribs to say they are the best they have ever had. It is low heat 225 or so for a long time and you will hit it out of the park!!!

Most competition rib cooker do the 3-2-1 method witch works great as well, 3 hours smoker,2hours in tin foil,1 hour grill

VB

Edit: I almost forgot the secret ingredient, well not so secret, every 30-45 min spray them down with apple juice in a spray bottle, not alot, just enough to get em moist without washing off your rub.

I use a vinegar mop and smack them with apple cider vinegar every hour-ish.

I'll toss-in my method. Keep in mind, the best method for one person's equipment may not be right for you.

- Dry rub overnight, let warm to room temp (as said above).
- temperature control 220-230. Heavy smoke for an hour (as said above).
- ribs get a mop sauce of 2 parts apple cider vinegar, 1 part amber ale (similar to above) every hour or so.
- cook until the meat pulls back from the bone ends
- wrap in foil with your favorite sauce (wrap tightly to contain sauce) and put back in smoker for 1 hour.
- enjoy!

MenkeMoose said:

the meat came out very dry and somewhat tasteless;

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To fix these two thing I woud reccomend.

- Do your dry rub overnight (a must for flavor). My favorite right now is rib tickler by williams. I even started adding ranch powder too.
- To keep them moist you can spray them with anything during the open cooking, apple juice, mango juice or even water. I always have water bottles around me so sometimes I poke a hole in the cap with a knife and viola.
- Also for taste I would recomend putting on a wet sauce on them and cooking it in towards the end. You can do this every 40 min or so. I like to do it as many times I can fit in.

If you want another process besides the 321 let me know and I can detail mine.

Thanks for the tips guys! The more I think about this, I have to wonder if the problem was just the meat itself. The last two times, my wife bought full racks on sale from the local supermarket, which I trimmed to St. Louis style. But I think the sale ribs have been refrozen, and then frozen by us again.

So here's my plan for this weekend. Buy fresh ribs on Saturday and rub them in Saturday night. Cook on Sunday, again using essentially 3-2-1 (when I put them in foil I add some apple juice to the foil pack). For the first 3 hours I'll use a spray bottle with some apple juice after every hour. After the 2 hrs in the foil, I'll add the sauce (I make my own with apples, onions, catsup, brown sugar, and vinegar) and wrap back in the foil for 30 mins. Then I'll toss them on the grill for the last 30 mins. Any other thoughts?

PS: BARBQ, I'd love to hear your alternate method to 321.

Moose

Flavor issue I would say is either your rub or not using enough of it. I also go very light on smoke with ribs. I will toss in 1 fist sized chunk at the start and that is it. Ribs can get overly smokey very easily and it will cover up the rest of the flavors. 3-2-1 I have found is way too long in a UDS. I have started doing a 2-1-1 sort of. I have gone less my time and more by look though. At about 2 hours they should just start to pull back on the bone. Once they do that I will wrap them with some honey, cider vinegar, apple juice, and more rub for about an hour. After that I will sauce every 20 minutes for 40 or 60 minutes depending on how done they are.

BARBQ said:

To fix these two thing I woud reccomend.

- Do your dry rub overnight (a must for flavor). My favorite right now is rib tickler by williams. I even started adding ranch powder too.
- To keep them moist you can spray them with anything during the open cooking, apple juice, mango juice or even water. I always have water bottles around me so sometimes I poke a hole in the cap with a knife and viola.
- Also for taste I would recomend putting on a wet sauce on them and cooking it in towards the end. You can do this every 40 min or so. I like to do it as many times I can fit in.

If you want another process besides the 321 let me know and I can detail mine.

Click to expand...

Doing the rub overnight will do very little if anything at all. Many people think it will but I have tried it both way and found it wasn't worth it.

MenkeMoose said:

Thanks for the tips guys! The more I think about this, I have to wonder if the problem was just the meat itself. The last two times, my wife bought full racks on sale from the local supermarket, which I trimmed to St. Louis style. But I think the sale ribs have been refrozen, and then frozen by us again.

So here's my plan for this weekend. Buy fresh ribs on Saturday and rub them in Saturday night. Cook on Sunday, again using essentially 3-2-1 (when I put them in foil I add some apple juice to the foil pack). For the first 3 hours I'll use a spray bottle with some apple juice after every hour. After the 2 hrs in the foil, I'll add the sauce (I make my own with apples, onions, catsup, brown sugar, and vinegar) and wrap back in the foil for 30 mins. Then I'll toss them on the grill for the last 30 mins. Any other thoughts?

PS: BARBQ, I'd love to hear your alternate method to 321.

Moose

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freezing and refreezing will not effect the taste at all but could screw up the texture.

The smoke has a drying effect on the meat, so you need to be sure to baste it regularly and/or wrap with aluminum foil at some point. Also, contrary to popular misconception, the meat should NOT "fall off the bone." It should be tender and pull away from the bone relatively easy. If it completely comes off the bone at the slightest tug, then it's overcooked. My secret: rub lightly with canola oil, not mustard, before putting on the rub. Yes, I got this tip on the Barbecue Pit Masters show last year and it really helps.

Do you have a water pan in the smokers? And are you somehow creating indirect heat in your setup similar to how the Weber Smokey Mountain works? My WSM makes killer ribs every time 4hrs at 225.

Give this recipe a try:
http://www.virtualweberbullet.com/rib1.html

passedpawn said:

I use a vinegar mop and smack them with apple cider vinegar every hour-ish.

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That's the ticket right there!!!!!!!!!

I go at least every half hour with the vinegar mop!!!!!


Also I have an aluminum cup full of liquid cheap beer or even water to help keep everything nice and moist. It's just sits on the grill next to the ribs.


Here are my last ribs

At the end (last 10 min) I slap on a little molasses straight.

Agree with the cider vinegar. I buy salad vinegar which is close but seems to have a better sweet taste. Do the dry rub overnight. You are right on the meat. Quailty is a big deal. There is a bunch of stores carrying a "Natural" marking. I dont know if your stores have them in CA but if you see this get those.

Be careful putting to much dry rub on. If you use one that is heavy in salt it can backfire (cheap rubs). I use one (rib tickler) with is heavier in sugar so I can cake the whole rib. Most spices/condiments have salt in them so i make it a point not to add any salt. Your dry rub and wet sauce should work together in flavor.

----- Process ---

Cut to St louis unless i can find some already cut at the store removing the back skin

Use ranch powder 1 packet per two ribs first. Then cover with rib tickler. (tickle tickle)

Put in tin and cover and put in fridge overnight.

Get fire going in morning. I use Pecan wood by default usually unless something needs something else. I use it because it doesnt ever overpower the meat and is very safe. I get it going with a propane hose and brass gas fitting. Once its running at 230-250 for 30-40 min i get the ribs. If i havent run the pit in a long time, over winter or something I cut onions in half and open my pit and palm them and scrub the grate, then I leave them on during getting my fire running time. Sometimes I might even leave them during cooking.

Then put the ribs on. I run these for 3 hours or however long they need. During the beginning I spray to keep from drying or coming up from the bone. Then towards the end i try to put my wet sauce on them as many times as i can between drying.

Then once dry enough. I wrap in foil, then put back on for 1-2 hours same heat. I dont like to put them in the foil wet.

Then I take them off and open up the foil to check them out of tenderness. If they seem tender enough, I then get the electric knife and cut pieces.

Then I load them in a tin and cover with foil. Then I put back on pit and cook for an hour or more. Alot of times I might even let my fire die after they are on here for around 45 min. I do this with all my BBQ. It makes it to where I dont have to deal with cutting it when it is too tender and having the meat ready to serve makes it easy too.

* Alot of people say 5-6 hours for ribs in to much, but i win down here so who cares.

I can PM you my sauce if you want. I know it is more fun to develop your own. Ive been changing mine through trial and error for years. I used to do my own dry rub until I ran across this rib tickler and never turned back.

Flavor can be tweaked ad nauseum.

Texture is a function of heat, time, and MOISTURE.....YOU AINT ADDING ANY MOISTURE.

Especially in that GIANT UDS, 2 slabs will get very dry. MOP, SPRAY, HAVE A DRIP TRAY, HAVE ANOPENED BEER.

Preferably all of the above.

I'm not a big fan of letting rub sit overnight. Rub has salt and salt draws moisture out. That's why steakhouses don't put salt on their steaks till they are actually on the grill or right before they go on.

I haven't tried cider vinegar looks like I'll be able to today.

I'm sure any vinegar will do the trick and yield lots of flavor. I like adding cut onions to the vinegar as well.

Man this thread makes me hungry.

BTW there are some great bbq ribs videos on you tube!

I like the apple cider vinegar because it's very acidic and I imagine it cuts into the meat better than liquids of more neutral pH. Anyway, thats my thinking.

I'm going to use a plastic spray bottle next time. Easier, I think, than dragging the mop.

Also, I'm not a fan of putting any sugars onto my ribs until the end of the cooking. No apple juice either. I'm not a pro like the other guys here, though: just my 2¢.

Well, this time they turned out perfect. Stuck with the 321 method for now, but sprayed them with cider vinegar every hour. I think this really helped to keep them moist. Thanks for all the tips, looking forward to continuing to perfect the low and slow method!

Are you adding juice or anything in the foil to keep them moist? I normally never foil and do a straight 5.5-6 hours on the upper grate and spray with apple juice every hour.

Now that you mentioned the vinegar Im going to have to try that. It sounds too good not to

Dry rub:
1 part chili powder-preferably ancho but a mix is okay
1 part lt brown sugar
1 part kosher salt

plus a bunch of:
cayanne
black pepper
garlic powder
dry mustard

Rub-in a few hours before cooking (overnight is best but not required).

• Smoke at 200 deg for abobut 1.5 hrs.
• Wrap in foil and cook at 200 for two more.
• Bring the pit up to about 275 and cook on direct fire for about 20 min to create a nice bark surrounding the ribs.

Works great every time fo me. Sometimes, they come out a little over-cooked by KC standards. They fall of the bone instead of requiring a bit of chewing.

Desert_Sky said:

Are you adding juice or anything in the foil to keep them moist? I normally never foil and do a straight 5.5-6 hours on the upper grate and spray with apple juice every hour.

Now that you mentioned the vinegar Im going to have to try that. It sounds too good not to

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I pour some apple juice over the top when I foil them.

I've never had a problem with my ribs drying out. All i do is a simple paprika dry rub then grill for two hours and then oven for four more. Comes out really moist and tender.

When I first tried the 3-2-1 method, the ribs came out way overdone. 2-1-1 is better for the ribs I get. I guess it depends how thick your ribs are.

I apply my rub the night before, then put them in a foodsaver bag and suck the air out. I have a brinkman snp. I take the ribs out of the fridge before I get my fire going, get them warmed up. In my pit, I have a stainless bowl I keep filled with water. Sits right next to the fire. I just throw my ribs on, and let them go. usually takes around 4 hours, but I cook to a temp as well. These are also baby backs, not St. Louis cut (not that big a fan). I do not, however, sauce them. I've on occasion misted a vinegear/beer mop, but that was it. I am not a fan of super sticky ribs. I'd like my dry rub and fire managment skill to shine. I provide sauce if you want it, but usually urge people to try it first. Usually only my brother reaches for the Sweet Baby Rays (hell, he puts that on Filet migon, so that's really not saying anything).

But you just need to learn your pit. Then you can play with the different styles and find what you like best.

dfess1 said:

I apply my rub the night before, then put them in a foodsaver bag and suck the air out. I have a brinkman snp. I take the ribs out of the fridge before I get my fire going, get them warmed up. In my pit, I have a stainless bowl I keep filled with water. Sits right next to the fire. I just throw my ribs on, and let them go. usually takes around 4 hours, but I cook to a temp as well. These are also baby backs, not St. Louis cut (not that big a fan). I do not, however, sauce them. I've on occasion misted a vinegear/beer mop, but that was it. I am not a fan of super sticky ribs. I'd like my dry rub and fire managment skill to shine. I provide sauce if you want it, but usually urge people to try it first. Usually only my brother reaches for the Sweet Baby Rays (hell, he puts that on Filet migon, so that's really not saying anything).

But you just need to learn your pit. Then you can play with the different styles and find what you like best.

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you sound like you know your way around a pit.

BARBQ said:

you sound like you know your way around a pit.

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I'd like to think so. But I'm no where near any of these guys on the smokering or bbq brethren. I have however, gotten one hell of a compliment from a good friend. He loves my pulled pork. He travels to ATL regularly for work, and the guys down there take him out for 'que all the time. He told them "It's good, but my buddies back home is better." They were incredulous that "Yankee" might know what he was doing. I was stoked with that though!

My brinkman has a few mods, a baffle from the firebox (without it, the temp fluctuates by 100 degrees from end to end. with it, it only flucates by 15 degrees), then tuning plates after that. And I lowered my chimney down to the grate. And put in a log burner to get the actual fire going. This smoker was a 100 dollar pickup from Walmart about 10 years ago. It will in the very near future be replaced, and re-gifted to one of my friends.

I will say I finally started keeping a log of my bbq. Record pit temps, cook times, who ate what, their thoughts, recipes, etc. has helped immensely. Not sure why I didn't do that earlier.

nevermind disregard the compliment now that I know your a yankee.

dfess1 said:

I'd like to think so. But I'm no where near any of these guys on the smokering or bbq brethren. I have however, gotten one hell of a compliment from a good friend. He loves my pulled pork. He travels to ATL regularly for work, and the guys down there take him out for 'que all the time. He told them "It's good, but my buddies back home is better." They were incredulous that "Yankee" might know what he was doing. I was stoked with that though!

My brinkman has a few mods, a baffle from the firebox (without it, the temp fluctuates by 100 degrees from end to end. with it, it only flucates by 15 degrees), then tuning plates after that. And I lowered my chimney down to the grate. And put in a log burner to get the actual fire going. This smoker was a 100 dollar pickup from Walmart about 10 years ago. It will in the very near future be replaced, and re-gifted to one of my friends.

I will say I finally started keeping a log of my bbq. Record pit temps, cook times, who ate what, their thoughts, recipes, etc. has helped immensely. Not sure why I didn't do that earlier.

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I also have a SNP, I have done the chimney mod, and a half assed baffle, I need to make a better one, and do the heat plates.

Do you have pics of your mods? or can you take pics of them?

azscoob said:

I also have a SNP, I have done the chimney mod, and a half assed baffle, I need to make a better one, and do the heat plates.

Do you have pics of your mods? or can you take pics of them?

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i'll snap some on sat. Supposed to acutally see that yellow thing in the sky that day.

BARBQ said:

nevermind disregard the compliment now that I know your a yankee.

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touche!