Air compressor aeration

I've been reading a lot about aeration. I bought a disposable o2 tank from lowes but started having trouble finding a good regulator. There was one on ebay that sells and ships for$15 total, but wasn't sure if it was compatible. Plus I read a lot of people said the tanks didn't last long at all. So I thought I might go the route of a air bubbler with sanitizing filter. I already have a large air compressor, maybe I can keep the PSI low and use it, then all I would need would be a 2 micron or .5 micron stone and the 1/4" tubing, and off course the filter disc. I have read a couple of post about using a filter that would catch oil from the compressor. Can anyone give a definite answer on how to make this system work. I have a craftsman 1.6 HP, 160 psi max, 26gal compressor. cheers and thanks in advance.

I have rigged up inline aeration with a compressor using a ss airstone.

The compressor I use is a basic oilless harbor freight model:

http://www.harborfreight.com/1-3-hp-3-gallon-100-psi-oilless-air-compressor-97080.html

I also added a desiccant filter:

http://www.harborfreight.com/1-3-hp-3-gallon-100-psi-oilless-air-compressor-97080.html

The regulator on the compressor can go low, but the stock gauge does not register below about 15 psi. I added a 0-15 pressure gauge to accurately dial in the 5 psi I wanted, but you could probably go by feel if you were aerating in a carboy.

Before the air goes into the stone it travels through one of these filters:
http://www.northernbrewer.com/brewi...uipment/aeration/in-line-sanitary-filter.html

So far so good. Been using it a year and beats O2 tanks for my system. YMMV.

I use the tanks from lowes/homedepot. I get about 7 batches *ten gallon) from one tank.

I've been using compressed air to aerate <= 1.070 wort. Works great. Pure oxygen is necessary > 1.070.

If you have an oiled compressor, you'll want to use a borosilicate oil/gas separator. Mcmaster sells them for less than $10.

The temp you chill your wort to before is very much just as important. I just whip it with a spoon and I don't have any fermentation problems. Technically dry yeast does not need any aeration.

I use Harbor Freights Air Brush Compressor. They are very clean air, small light. Works with .2 micron stone, and a .05 micron filter in line(from surgical supplies). Needle valve controls flow. Does a great job, around $50 or so.

sjlammer said:

I use the tanks from lowes/homedepot. I get about 7 batches *ten gallon) from one tank.

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Really, so far I've gotten around 30 ten gallon batches from one disposable oxygen cannister. One of us is doing something wrong.

thanks for everyones input....I bought a disposable oxygen tank from lowes and was trying to find a valve to release the o2, but I got frustrated with the prices of them and couldn't find a cheaper alternative, plus I have to keep buying the tanks. so I bought the the air pump and stone kit from NB. I will probably get the o2 system going eventually for when I start making IIPAs.

nothing personal but i wouldn't use a regular air compressor for this at all. I have an 80 gallon to run my air tools and fill tires and such. no way would i use it to aerate beer. filtered or not. just too risky in my opinion

Totaly agree on the garage compressor NOT being used. Thought about it, then I drained the tank and was reminded of the condition of the tank, no tanks!

I don't see what the point of using an air compressor is. What are you trying to achieve? You can't achieve any more/less dissolved oxygen than either sloshing the carboy around or using an aquarium pump, and both of those won't have all kind of junk in the line and tanks like a compressor does. The goal is to get 10-15 ppm of dissolved oxygen, isn't it? If yes, stop using a compressor and get an oxygen source.

Have you used a compressor compared to an aquarium pump? I don't like wasting can's of 02, aquarium pump just so know WHY I do it, didn't produce enough pressure to work. And yes you are wrong, an air compressor is better than sloshing around, but not as good as 02, the point you made about 02 sats, well it can be achieved a number of different ways. I had the compressor, and didn't have to buy anything, which is always nice. To do 02, lets see,buy tank, buy manifold (because to do 02 right you need to know the ppm over what time frame or its a waste.) Refill tank, store tank, and don't use for anything else. BTW, I get 10-15, in about 10 minutes with drizzle of wort into fermentor, and compressed air. I have 02 for welding, but see no reason to waste when this is working. My yeast is able to multiply and s and f the things we want. Mission accomplished.

FishFace - how do you know you're getting 10-15? Not trying to be snarky, really just curious if you have a way to test that.

Also, just recently, I saw a video of a yeast microbiologist say one of the best ways to aerate is to fill the head space with 02 and then shake. Makes sense since one of the main variables in absorption is surface area.

mjohnson said:

FishFace - how do you know you're getting 10-15? Not trying to be snarky, really just curious if you have a way to test that.

Also, just recently, I saw a video of a yeast microbiologist say one of the best ways to aerate is to fill the head space with 02 and then shake. Makes sense since one of the main variables in absorption is surface area.

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is pure o2 heavier, lighter, or the same as regular air? This sounds like an interesting concept, but if its lighter than regular air, then wouldn't it just float up and out and be replaced by regular air? if it weighs the same then would you have to start adding the air to the bottom of the headspace, to help push the regular air out the top? Co2 is heavier than o2, so if its not absorbed by the time fermentation starts, then wouldn't the remainder of the o2 be pushed out of the airlock?

O2 is heavier than the majority of air constituents

bja said:

Really, so far I've gotten around 30 ten gallon batches from one disposable oxygen cannister. One of us is doing something wrong.

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Me too. I'll go with 60 sec/5.5 gal with bubbles just coming to the surface. It seems like the little red tanks never run out.

Also, if you have a ton of large bubble frothing up, you're pumping out too much O2.

Any oil mist no matter how you filter out a oil reciprocating piston compressor will still let a few particles thru.
Touching the stone your finger oils will contaminate it, use a oilless diaphragm compressor. Thomas Pumps
makes many different models, example; http://www.gd-thomas.com/productList.aspx?id=10188&tp=p
I picked up a couple medical compressors by donating $20 to the
hospital for outdated units, both work 0 to 14 LPM @ 50 psi.
I now use O2 from the 215 cu/ft welding bottle.
Below these medical compressors complete with flow regulators.
http://www.soymedical.com/bf14615.html

I do not have a quantitative way of testing ppm. I use qualitative measurements. Because I am use air, I can waste some, I pulse aerate. Rotate carboy, pulse, I do this for usually 15-20 minutes. Air foam will be near the top. I did do a test, and the yeast were happy with my method. I couldn't get a quote but they went nuts in that container and made a mess! Ironically as we cool our wort in condenses, if you let that condensed fluid drop into the carboy, that 18" of drop and splash is probably enough aeration, this whole thread is based on what we think, but can't test. I have spoken with and read many discussions about just letting the wort drop do the aeration.

FWIW, from the technical expert at BYO:

I personally use pure oxygen for a one-time saturation shot for yeast propagation. I have never had any problems with this method. When it comes to wort aeration for making beer, I use air and saturate with air (~8.5 PPM). Again, this works well for me and, most importantly, my yeast!

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I googled "aerate wort with compressor" and came upon this thread so...I joined the forum because I want to hear from anybody who is actually doing this - as opposed to anybody who "would not". I'm only interested because I already have a compressor. I'm not going to get one just to aerate and iIt's not as though I'm going to take the rubber hose I use to power my stapler and drop it in the bucket. I have two filtering systems on my compressor. One dries the air of moisture and then lubricates it. It's good for the tools. The other dries the air only. This I'd use with a dedicated-to-brewing hose and pass the air through the inline filter that Northern Brewer has and then to a diffusion stone. Will it be OK?

stevescott123 said:

I googled "aerate wort with compressor" and came upon this thread so...I joined the forum because I want to hear from anybody who is actually doing this - as opposed to anybody who "would not". I'm only interested because I already have a compressor. I'm not going to get one just to aerate and iIt's not as though I'm going to take the rubber hose I use to power my stapler and drop it in the bucket. I have two filtering systems on my compressor. One dries the air of moisture and then lubricates it. It's good for the tools. The other dries the air only. This I'd use with a dedicated-to-brewing hose and pass the air through the inline filter that Northern Brewer has and then to a diffusion stone. Will it be OK?

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i would just as soon shake the fermentor than use an air compressor. you will not get more air in there than you will by shaking and the air running through the hose tastes bad. between shaking and pure O2 i went with the pure O2. i think my setup cost me about $140 for the cylinder/regulator (harbor freight) and the stainless aeration wand. the cylinder will last me for hundreds of batches, maybe thousands, i've had it over a yr now and it's still going on the same O2 fill.

Thank you eastok I appreciate it. I'd love to hear from somebody who is doing it and how it's working out. I'm a novice working up to some higher OG brews that most agree will require more than a quick splash to aerate it for the most thorough and complete fermentation. So far - I've been brewing a year - splashing seems to be fine. I've yet to understand why a brew above 1070 would need pure oxygen injected rather than just air (maybe for longer?). back when the Rheinheitsgebot was written I don't think anybody was injecting air or oxygen...

As to the smell of compressed air this probably comes from the rubber hoses used. The air around us potentially contains bacteria that would be harmful to our hard worked for brew. But it's the same air whether it's agitated in the bucket, pushed through an aquarium pump or compressed by my compressor. The latter two would both be HEPA filtered before entering the bucket. I'm not a scientist but I would have thought that odors were caused by airborne particulates and that they would get "caught" by the filter.

I hate to spend money on gear if I have something else that will work. That said, I do have my fears and I don't want to risk a whole batch just to find out!

Without using pure O2, the most you'll infuse the wort with (be it splashing, pouring, a aquarium pump, or compressor) is 8ppm. With pure O2, you can get many times that. For bigger beers you NEED to be able to infuse more O2 into the wort since it won't retain it as easily as lower OG wort.

IMO, using a compressor is not a good idea. For one thing, you'll need to add a sanitary filter before the air stone. At the flow levels most compressors function at, you'll probably rip right through it. I see it as an exercise in frustration where you can easily do it properly with other methods (especially pure O2).

I have O2 regulators with flow meters on them, that connect to my 20 cubic foot O2 tanks (for welding systems). I'm still working on the first of two tanks (got them when I exchanged my 40 cubic foot tank that was far out of hydro) I picked up last year. There's still plenty of O2 in that tank, even after many batches (at least 20-30, if not more). That's with infusing batches with a range of OG's at different LpM rates (1-2 LpM typically) and times (ranging from 60-120 seconds).

I only just noticed this reply. Thank you.

The filter that NB sells is an in-line HEPA filter. It goes before the air stone. Also, I can adjust the output on the compressor to a very low value the likes of which would suit an air brush.

I take on board the O2 comments. I'm just not sure I want to get more gear when I already have gear. Though I do intend to brew much stronger beers some day

So, putting the O2 argument to one side, the air that exists in my home is going to get splashed or forced in to my beer. It's the same air and air quality whether I slosh the bucket, spend money on the aquarium pump, filter and stone set up or less money on the stone and filter only using my own compressor. In fact the air I'm sloshing in the bucket hasn't passed through a filter. The compressed air will have. That's a plus isn't it?

But...where can I research/buy 02 regulators and all I'd need?

stevescott123 said:

So, putting the O2 argument to one side, the air that exists in my home is going to get splashed or forced in to my beer. It's the same air and air quality whether I slosh the bucket, spend money on the aquarium pump, filter and stone set up or less money on the stone and filter only using my own compressor. In fact the air I'm sloshing in the bucket hasn't passed through a filter. The compressed air will have. That's a plus isn't it?

But...where can I research/buy 02 regulators and all I'd need?

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When you compress air in a compressor you are also compressing the moisture in the air. This is why you shouldn't run air tools on a compressor without an oil/water separator. When the moisture settles in the tank it gets rusty so now you not only have moist air you have rust in it also.

Even when running a separator you still get moist air coming out.

Monster Mash, I have a separator on my compressor, but I wouldn't use it to oxygenate/aerate my wort. I wouldn't feel comfortable without either a few of them in line, or an actual air dryer. By then, you're easily talking about the same cost (or more) of just getting a pure O2 system.

We used those 02 canisters for a while, ran out, and just shook them up. We have seen no real difference in fermentation. Times have been about the same, hell our last one fermented all the way down to 1.009 even after transferring to secondary. I find that simplest way that works is the best imo.

ktraver97ss said:

We used those 02 canisters for a while, ran out, and just shook them up. We have seen no real difference in fermentation. Times have been about the same, hell our last one fermented all the way down to 1.009 even after transferring to secondary. I find that simplest way that works is the best imo.

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Bad back, and lots of wort going into primary, plus fermenting in sanke kegs rules out shaking for me. I'm using a 20 cubic foot O2 tank to oxygenate my wort. I'd be surprised if it runs empty in 2 years (brewing as close to the 100 gallon legal limit, per year, as I can). Judging by the usage I had in my first 20 cubic tank (used it for many batches, and have it connected to my welding system now) the fresh tank will go at least 2 years for me.

Bigscience said:

Me too. I'll go with 60 sec/5.5 gal with bubbles just coming to the surface. It seems like the little red tanks never run out.

Also, if you have a ton of large bubble frothing up, you're pumping out too much O2.

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Is there such a thing as too much?

stevescott123 said:

Is there such a thing as too much?

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Generally speaking, it would take a major effort to over-oxygenate a wort before pitching the yeast. If you use half of your brain (or more) chances are you'll not over-oxygenate.

Now, if you aerate/oxygenate it after fermentation has been going for a day, or two, you can do damage. Typically really HIGH OG brews are hit with more O2 12-18 hours from pitching. Super-high batches (over 16%) and yeasts (WLP099) could benefit from additional O2 infusions. But, only for the first few days.

I like having the flow meter regulator on the O2 tank. Gives me a solid way to know how much is going into the wort/must.

Due to the responses I've had I decided not to pursue with the compressor. As I head toward higher OG brews I need more oxygen, not more air which has only a litle oxygen. So now I'm looking at the likes of the Oxynator and the Bernzomatic O2 tanks from Home Depot. However, we go to great lengths to keep our brews bacteria free and I'm not sure about these canisters.

I've also seen empty 20 cf tanks from Harbor Freight, cheaper on eBay even wih shipping, that cost about the same as nine Bernz cans. I'm a bit confused as to the compatibility of tank valves and the Oxynator or other regulators, where to get the tank filled, what that will cost and whether the O2 quality will be any more assured than that of the Bernz or if it's worth going to all this trouble and expense. I think a 20 cf tank might last longer than me!
To date all I've done is shake my bucket. If I were dissatisfied with my brews I might have given up but I'm not so it must be working. In fact last time I forgpt to aerate until after I pitched. That one is still in 2nd stage so don't know how it's going to turn out. Weds I brew again, a 1050 from NB and I won't have the O2 set up but I might use a perforated spoon to whip some air in. Easier on the body!

Here's one O2 regulator that will work with a welding O2 tank. Very similar to one of the ones I have. I simply connect that to the O2 wand I got from William's with some 3/16" ID Bevlex tubing, with a clamp on the fitting to the regulator. Probably don't need the clamp with the low flow that's going through it, but I'd rather be 100% safe than have it come off.

As for getting the O2 tank filled, AirGas will do it for pretty short money. I'm actually planning on exchanging one of my 20 cubic foot tanks (once it's empty) for a 60 to use with welding again. Total cost of the exchange, and fill, is under $60 ($30 for the exchange). I would expect the O2 fill/exchange of a 20 cubic to be under $20.

Also, the red bottles of O2 are typically 1.2-1.4 ounces of O2. The 20 cubic foot has more than 10x that inside it. Size wise, they're about the same as a 5# CO2 tank. I'll look to see what the weight of the tank is (tare weight) and see how much O2 (by weight) is inside a full one. I'll post up later when I have that info.

stevescott123 said:

we go to great lengths to keep our brews bacteria free and I'm not sure about these canisters.

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i doubt any bacteria can live in a 100% O2 environment.

So I've done more research on O2 tanks and I'm starting to get my head around the differnet valve types and the numbers etc. I also went to look at one in Harbor Freight. What I don't understand is why, if the tanks has a valve on it, I would need an additional regulator, which is essentially another valve. I don't believe I really need to measure the flow with guages; I'm just going to squirt oxygen for 30-60 seconds keeping my eye on the brew and the foam.

Why do I need a regulator like the one Golddiggie referenced or any other? Can I simply connect my tubing and stone via some kind of adaptor to the threaded valve on the tank?

One other question...what am I looking at on the opposite side of the valve, is that some kind of vent?

stevescott123 said:

So I've done more research on O2 tanks and I'm starting to get my head around the differnet valve types and the numbers etc. I also went to look at one in Harbor Freight. What I don't understand is why, if the tanks has a valve on it, I would need an additional regulator, which is essentially another valve. I don't believe I really need to measure the flow with guages; I'm just going to squirt oxygen for 30-60 seconds keeping my eye on the brew and the foam.

Why do I need a regulator like the one Golddiggie referenced or any other? Can I simply connect my tubing and stone via some kind of adaptor to the threaded valve on the tank?

One other question...what am I looking at on the opposite side of the valve, is that some kind of vent?

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Without a regulator on the tank, the O2 will be coming out at full force. About 3000psi. Similar to how you have a regulator on CO2 tanks to control the flow of the gas out of them, you NEED a regulator on the O2 tank. Using a regulator with a flow meter is the best choice for O2 for this task. One with a pressure gauge is good for welding, but not brewing applications (I've tried it, so I know from experience).

The 'vent' you see is a safety release. IF the pressure gets too high in the tank (typically from being stored too hot) it will break and release the gas before the tank blows up.

3000 psi? That would blow your fingers off your hand and send them through the sheet rock.

bottlebomber said:

3000 psi? That would blow your fingers off your hand and send them through the sheet rock.

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Pretty much since they'll also be frozen solid.

The disposable tanks from the hardware store coupled with a diffusion stone are easy to use. I figure I get roughly 5 batches out of a 10$ tank. In the long run, a refillable setup would be better, but that is low on my list. And in my area, I've found Airgas to be significantly more expensive for CO2 refills than Matheson, which might be just a regional chain.

Once you have the tank, the O2 swap is pretty reasonable. Especially when you compare how much more O2 you get. Swapping my 20 cubic foot tank (about the same size as a 5# CO2 tank) is <$20. So, for no more than what you're paying for those 1.2-1.4 OUNCE bottles, I get many times the O2 amount. Judging by what I found from a google search, and weighing the full 20 cubic foot O2 tank, you get about just over 4 pounds of O2 in the 20 cubic foot tank. So, over 50 times the amount of O2 is in one of these small O2 tanks (compared with the typical 1.2oz O2 bottle). If you're getting the 'larger' bottle (1.4oz) it's over 46x the O2. You'll be paying far, far, far, far less (in the longer run) by going with even a 20 cubic foot O2 tanks (the smallest you can get for welding). Yes, it costs a little more than the red tanks to get setup this way (should be able to get everything, tank, regulator, etc. for under $150), but you'll save over time (compared with spending $460-$500 while using the red tanks).

Golddiggie said:

Once you have the tank, the O2 swap is pretty reasonable. Especially when you compare how much more O2 you get. Swapping my 20 cubic foot tank (about the same size as a 5# CO2 tank) is <$20. So, for no more than what you're paying for those 1.2-1.4 OUNCE bottles, I get many times the O2 amount. Judging by what I found from a google search, and weighing the full 20 cubic foot O2 tank, you get about just over 4 pounds of O2 in the 20 cubic foot tank. So, over 50 times the amount of O2 is in one of these small O2 tanks (compared with the typical 1.2oz O2 bottle). If you're getting the 'larger' bottle (1.4oz) it's over 46x the O2. You'll be paying far, far, far, far less (in the longer run) by going with even a 20 cubic foot O2 tanks (the smallest you can get for welding). Yes, it costs a little more than the red tanks to get setup this way (should be able to get everything, tank, regulator, etc. for under $150), but you'll save over time (compared with spending $460-$500 while using the red tanks).

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this concept seems very hard for some people to understand but you said it well in this post.