90L Crystal VS. 120L Crystal

I am gathering ingredients for a Black IPA I plan on brewing in a week or two. My LHBS didn't have 90L Crystal on hand so I picked up some 120L Crystal to substitute.

What type of differences will come from this substitution? This will be steeped for 30 minutes at 155 F.

120L Crystal has more of a burnt raisin flavor than 90L. They are both darker crystals, so the flavor profile isn't too different, but they are different enough. How much are you using in your recipe?

Here is the steeping bill:

0.5 lb British Black Patent
0.5 lb Carafa III
1 lb 60L Crystal
0.5 lb 90L Crystal
0.5 lb Roasted Barley

I imagine that the black patent and roasted barley will be the dominant grains in this recipe but I am going for a Black IPA so there is be a lot of hops in the schedule.

That's more like an American Stout (with the assumption of the hops you're adding). It's not really a Black IPA at all - you won't that much black patent or roasted barley in a Black IPA. I'd stick with a dehusked Carafa plus possibly a touch of chocolate malt to get your color while not overpowering the taste with the roasted grains.

I agree with Pseudo Chef. Ditch the roast barley and the black patent. Up the carafa to a full pound. You've got a hoppy stout there.

OK. So switch out the Patent and roast barley for more carafa and what else?

Agree with the rest. That's somewhere in the porter/stout category, not IBA. You will get some significant roast from that level of roasted grains.

lawle102 said:

Here is the steeping bill:

0.5 lb British Black Patent
0.5 lb Carafa III
1 lb 60L Crystal
0.5 lb 90L Crystal
0.5 lb Roasted Barley

I imagine that the black patent and roasted barley will be the dominant grains in this recipe but I am going for a Black IPA so there is be a lot of hops in the schedule.

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Looks like an interesting beer, could be very tasty. Still, if all 7 billion people on Earth call that an IPA, I still won't agree.

The dark crystal is going to darken that beer a bit by itself. With a half pound of Carafa, it'll be midnight black. and I'm throwing another vote to remove the BP and roast barley from there, unless you are shooting for a hoppy stout, not an IPA.

lawle102 said:

OK. So switch out the Patent and roast barley for more carafa and what else?

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That's about it. If you're really looking for suggestions, I'd drop the crystal 60 down to .5lb for a total of 1lb of crystal, but that's just my taste. The important thing is dropping the RB and black patent, and upping the carafa III to 1lb. Carafa will contribute color, and a little flavor, but won't give any of those burnt, roasted, acrid flavors that you don't want in a Black IPA

OK. looks like you have done the following for me:

Saved me some money, and managed to stop me from making something not so palatable.

I will say it again, the prompt responses and knowledge base on this website are just fascinating. Thanks again to everyone who replied.

Good luck with the batch! FYI, if you want to keep the OG the same for this beer, since we cut out a pound of steeping grains, you'll need to add a little more extract. Roughly .5lb of DME or .75lb of LME

I agree on the roasted barley and black. I would consider carafa III and chocolate for the dark malts. I have a stone 15th anniversary imperial black ipa clone thread going that may be worth a read. It has carafa III, chocolate, caramel 90, 2row, and dark Belgian candy sugar. I got feedback from Mitch Steele (head brewer at Stone), which is in the thread. It has had favorable results so far.

One more question if someone could help me out. I see you said I needed to added some LME or DME since I cut my grain bill back. Here is what I'm using:
1lb Carafa III
.5lb chocolate
.5lb 60L crystal
.5lb 120L crystal

Extract
1lb amber dry
2lb dark dry
8lb extra pale liquid.

Since I added the chocolate do I still need to up my extract a little ?

lawle102 said:

One more question if someone could help me out. I see you said I needed to added some LME or DME since I cut my grain bill back. Here is what I'm using:
1lb Carafa III
.5lb chocolate
.5lb 60L crystal
.5lb 120L crystal

Extract
1lb amber dry
2lb dark dry
8lb extra pale liquid.

Since I added the chocolate do I still need to up my extract a little ?

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That's a LOT of carafa. A lot, lot, lot. But I guess it won't harm anything- it's relatively flavorless. I use like three ounces to blacken up an IPA. I see someone else suggested the full pound, so maybe they know something I don't.

You don't need to increase the extract. You didn't "lose" any sugars.

Thanks yooper. Think I should back down my Carafa to .5 lb ? If there won't be any ill effect and no major gain, why waste it, right?