Easy Partial Mash Brewing (with pics)

So what would be the advantage of mashing in a smaller 5 gal as opposed to the 8 gal?

Less head space = less heat loss. Also, I'm assuming your 8 gallon pot is wider, so the grain won't mix with the water as well (unless you have a REALLY big bag.)

Dude, ok... does this seem weird to anyone else:

http://www.midwestsupplies.com/aitdownloadablefiles/download/aitfile/aitfile_id/1692/

That is the instruction sheet for a PM Traditional Stout kit from Midwest Supplies, and they are suggesting that you top off the fermenter with 3.5 gallons of cold water.

1.125 gallons in the mash, 1.5 gallons of sparge water

I thought full volume boils were better for hop utilization and all that - doesn't this seem like a very small amount of water to be boiling, and an awful lot of plain old cold water to top off?

I mean, if I was going to use their exact method, I wouldn't even want to use my big 8 gallon kettle...

I don't even think the water level would get up to where the thermometer is...

It's because there is only a small amount of grain. Plus it states "1 quart of water per each pound of grain", which is pretty low anyway. I usually go about 1.5 qt/lb.

No, that wouldn't work well in an 8 gallon pot with a bag.

So, basically I need to go blow up your Stovetop All-Grain thread now.

Thanks a lot! I found this extremely helpful and easy to follow.

I just used your method for my first PM batch yesterday, it went off without a hitch! Before adding extract I measured my gravity and got 77% efficiency, woohoo! Now we wait and see how my all Centennial IPA turns out.

Thanks for the great how to and the basis for the dunkelweizen recipe. I've been on midnights all week and have been reading this forum and this thread specificly the last few days. Last night I felt I finally had aquired the knowledge to do a PM and that dunkel was a perfect fit.
I don't have two large stock pots, only one 16qt so I had to be creative. I prepared my mash with about 2 gallons of water in my 16qt pot with my grains and used a 6.5qt pot to steep with. I placed the grain bag in the 6.5qt and added hot water until it was at the brim and covered for 10 minutes. After that I put the grain bag over the stockpot and ran more hot water through it in a strainer. From there I did a 60 minute boil. I was a little worried that I wouldn't get the extraction of sugars needed, but after taking a final gravity reading I was at 1.052 which is right were I think I needed to be.
As long as this turns out well, and I have no reason to think it won't, I'm going to try doing an AG half batch so I can do it all on this stove.
Here are the materials I used:
-2lbs Munich German Malt
-3lbs Bestmalz German Wheat Malt
-.25lbs Briess U.S. Chocolate Malt
-3lbs Plain Wheat DME
-.75oz Tettnanger pellet hops
-Wyeast Bavarian 3056 (I wanted to go with something a bit more nuteral then the hefeweizen)

Do you know what the temperature of your mash was when you filled it to the brim? That might be your only issue...you want to fall within the 148-154°F range. It doesn't sound like you went under (or you might not get conversion), but if you went over, you may get some tannin flavor. PM is more forgiving than all-grain, tho, so no matter what you're probably fine.

Sounds like it went well.

Ato said:

Here are the materials I used:
-2lbs Munich German Malt
-3lbs Bestmalz German Wheat Malt
-.25lbs Briess U.S. Chocolate Malt
-3lbs Plain Wheat DME
-.75oz Tettnanger pellet hops
-Wyeast Bavarian 3056 (I wanted to go with something a bit more nuteral then the hefeweizen)

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You might have some problems with conversion of the partial mash. With such a high percentage of Munich, you might want a little base malt in there. Half of a pound of 6 row, or even 2 row would help that out.

agenthucky said:

You might have some problems with conversion of the partial mash. With such a high percentage of Munich, you might want a little base malt in there. Half of a pound of 6 row, or even 2 row would help that out.

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I disagree. The wheat malt alone is more than enough to convert everything, even if the munich didn't have enough diastatic power to convert itself, which it does.

I often do Munich/Wheat dunkelweizens and have even done some Munich SMaSH beers.

DeathBrewer said:

I disagree. The wheat malt alone is more than enough to convert everything, even if the munich didn't have enough diastatic power to convert itself, which it does.

I often do Munich/Wheat dunkelweizens and have even done some Munich SMaSH beers.

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"White wheat malt is the only one to have enough diastatic power to completely convert itself (130%). German wheat malt is really close at 95%, dark wheat is 10%, and Belgian wheat malt is 74% for the set of malt analyses that I looked at. It is suggested to "Use with a highly modified malt to insure diastatic enzymes. (http://www.foamrangers.com/malts.html)" though the same people list that common German Weizens are up to 70% wheat malt. Hope that helps.

Look at the malt analysis of the wheat malt you plan to use. If it is 100% or more it should convert itself in theory, though most things I see when I search around suggest using at least some base malt in the mash with high enzymatic power."

my LHBS only has red wheat (most common form). The suggested a little 6 row, but I did have 1lb of flakes and a little caramunich that needed help

DeathBrewer said:

Do you know what the temperature of your mash was when you filled it to the brim? That might be your only issue...you want to fall within the 148-154°F range. It doesn't sound like you went under (or you might not get conversion), but if you went over, you may get some tannin flavor. PM is more forgiving than all-grain, tho, so no matter what you're probably fine.

Sounds like it went well.

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I used a digital meat thermometer to maintain my temp in the 148-154 range. I'm not worried about conversion as the wort was sticky as hell when I was done with it. My only concern was that I got a few hot spikes when I was playing with the temp b/c I learned that if you submerge the thermometer all the way in and not just around half you get wildly different results. As much as I should probably get a glass one, I really liked how I could set the alarm to warn me if my temp was creeping too high up in the temp range.

I found that floating the probe on top would be too cool while sinking it to the bottle would give me readings that were WAY to high. The happy medium seemed to be when I treated it just like meat and stabbed the grain bag and put the probe about half way down the shaft. The technique kept the probe standing up and seemed to maintain the 148-154 range well.

agenthucky said:

"White wheat malt is the only one to have enough diastatic power to completely convert itself (130%). German wheat malt is really close at 95%, dark wheat is 10%, and Belgian wheat malt is 74% for the set of malt analyses that I looked at. It is suggested to "Use with a highly modified malt to insure diastatic enzymes. (http://www.foamrangers.com/malts.html)" though the same people list that common German Weizens are up to 70% wheat malt. Hope that helps.

Look at the malt analysis of the wheat malt you plan to use. If it is 100% or more it should convert itself in theory, though most things I see when I search around suggest using at least some base malt in the mash with high enzymatic power."

my LHBS only has red wheat (most common form). The suggested a little 6 row, but I did have 1lb of flakes and a little caramunich that needed help

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You only need a diastatic power of about 35° Lintner to self-convert:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diastatic_power

A malt with enough power to self-convert has a diastatic power near 35 °Lintner (94 °WK); the most active, so-called "hottest" malts currently available, American six-row pale barley malts, have a diastatic power of up to 160 °Lintner (544 °WK).

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Regardless, I've used 70% wheat regularly with different types of munich and wheat and never had a single problem with conversion (except with raw grains, of course, then you need some extra diastatic power.

Check out the diastatic power of wheat from Briess. Both Red Wheat and White Wheat are equal to IF NOT GREATER THAN the diastatic power of 6-row:

http://www.brewingwithbriess.com/Products/Base_Malts.htm

I don't have access to some of the other grain information right now, but I am best friends with one of the guys that work at my LHBS and he's shown me the charts for the german grains. They're very similar in regards to DP.

I guess what it comes down to is that the Foampage doesn't know what the hell they are talking about.

DeathBrewer said:

I guess what it comes down to is that the Foampage doesn't know what the hell they are talking about.

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Oh man, this is really a huge pet peeve of mine. BeerSmith and all the other brewing software contains a lot of this unverified information. I find papers supporting the info on the Foampage site. I think we all know the you have correct info, as it "came from the horses mouth" or however that saying goes. Briess does indeed list the diastatic power of thier grains, and wheat is MORE than good enough to convert. However, half the time I get my grain from the LHBS, I don't know what maltster it came from. I looked into Muntons, and Weyermanns as those are the other bigger maltsters. Niether of them specifically list the diastatic power of the malts they sell (on their page), but they both sell a product called "diastatic wheat malt"

http://www.weyermann.de/eng/produkte.asp?idkat=25&umenue=yes&idmenue=37&sprache=2

And they say to use it when needing extra diastatic power (which wouldnt be necessary with Briess' wheat)

http://www.docstoc.com/docs/31152823/Base-Malts-101

They say specifically domestic wheat might need help, and support the stupid idea that Aromatic malt has extra diastatic power @ 29 L. Thier references are all the major malting companies.

Aromatic
(Mildly Kilned) Used at rates of up to 10%, Aromatic malt will lend a distinct, almost exaggerated malt aroma and flavor to the finished Ales and Lagers. Aromatic malt also has a rich color and is high in diastatic power for aid in starch conversion. D/C Aromatic malt. As the name suggests, adds aromatics to a beer.


If that person is using Briess wheat malt, they will surely have not problem, but in most cases, is unknown. If DB hadn't had proper conversion, he would know it, so you most likely are OK, but don't forget, these values are the best case scenario. If you are mashing in with your temps all over the place, you might damage the amalyse enzymes, and not get the full conversion power of everything.

I am considering emailing all the maltsters and ask to get the specific info.

If I knew which malters I was getting malt from, it wouldn't be a problem, but I don't, but perhaps I should ask...

agenthucky said:

If that person is using Briess wheat malt, they will surely have not problem, but in most cases, is unknown. If DB hadn't had proper conversion, he would know it, so you most likely are OK, but don't forget, these values are the best case scenario. If you are mashing in with your temps all over the place, you might damage the amalyse enzymes, and not get the full conversion power of everything.

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Nah the temps weren't all over the place, it was more like a spike up to 160 for a few minutes and a drop to 144 for a few minutes each.

agenthucky, I would wager that you NEVER have to worry about malted wheat and that it will always have a high diastatic power...that's the point of malting, after all. The only exception would be if it was kilned, such as chocolate wheat or something.

Foampage actually references domestic wheat when they state the error. It's a very common misconception. I think it started when homebrewing was still a very small pastime and people were using unmalted wheat for their beers, so they had to mash with grains with high DP.

Hey DB what do you think now that I provided a bit more info about brew day in my last few above posts, think my brew should be ok w/o too many tannins?

Well, if it sat at 160 for too long, it's possible you got some heavy dextrins in there, but I think you'll be fine. You won't get any real tannins at that temperature, that's more of a concern with the sparge reaching too high (over 168°F generally, depending on pH.) Nah, it'll be fine...let me know!

Ato said:

Hey DB what do you think now that I provided a bit more info about brew day in my last few above posts, think my brew should be ok w/o too many tannins?

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Your beer won't be good. You can send it to me and I'll dispose of it properly ;-)

Just curious how coarse or fine is the mesh on your grain/hop bag?

It varies and I've used many different bags. For how they will work: The finer bags will let less grain through, but they will flow slower and allow less water through, which could hurt efficiency and make the sparge difficult. The more coarse bags will work much easier, but allow more grain and husk particles through to the boil.

DeathBrewer said:

It varies and I've used many different bags. For how they will work: The finer bags will let less grain through, but they will flow slower and allow less water through, which could hurt efficiency and make the sparge difficult. The more coarse bags will work much easier, but allow more grain and husk particles through to the boil.

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Is there any detriment to having grain and husk particles in the boil? I'm using the paint strainer nylon bag from Lowe's and I would say it's not as fine as some of the nylon bags I have seen, but it's not nearly as course as a muslin bag either. I don't notice much grain getting through and I haven't noticed drainage problems, but I have also been dunking in the sparge water and not pouring any over it if that makes any difference.

Nah...even when I have a little grain, the beer turns out fine. If you had too much, you could get tannins from boiling the grain, I suppose, if it was a significant amount. You could also get protein haze.

Howdy All,

This thread is awesome! Thanks Deathbrewer! I tried this method today for the first time after several extract + steeping grains batches. Things got a little hairy so I want to ask advice on what I should do next. Here's what I did:

My modification of "Centennial Blonde" from https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f66/centennial-blonde-simple-4-all-grain-5-10-gall-42841/

4.5lbs Kalages 2-row pale
0.5lbs Vienna
0.5lbs Cara-pils
0.5lbs Caramel 10L
Strike 9qts 179F, went down to 155F and stayed.
Purple iodophor at first, very little at 30min, none at 45min. Moved to sparge.
Sparge 8qts 175F, went down to 170F after 12min. (Temp too low?)
Combined volumes + 0.5quart to rinse.
Pre-boil SG = 1.024 (48% Efficiency?)
60min 0.25oz Centennial (9.1%aa) plugs
45min 0.25oz Centennial (9.1%aa) plugs
30min 0.25oz Cascade (7.8%aa) pellets
15min 0.25oz Cascade (7.8%aa) pellets, plus 1tsp Irish Moss, plus 1.5lbs Munton's Ex-Pale DME
Cool, top up to 5.5gal.
Wyeast 1272 American Ale II
OG = 1.030

So I'm thinking about taking the left-over 1.5lb of DME, boil in 0.5gal for 15min, cool, throw it into fermenter. What do you think?
I took both gravity readings from samples that I had let come to room temp. I am new to this, so maybe I made some calculation errors. Does 48% efficiency look right to you?

Thanks for any insights you may be able to provide,
Sardo

I think I figured it out. I had only read through the first 70 pages of the thread when I posted. A couple of pages after that I spotted the link to the recipator, which will help in the future when adapting recipies, and crucial information about doughing in. I poured all of my grain into the bag in the strike water and then tried to stir it well before covering. Next time I'll add the grain a little bit at a time and stir. Hopefully I'll get better efficiency that way. I went ahead and added the leftover DME as I suggested I might. That probably would have done the trick.
Unfortunately, a heat wave hit the afternoon after brewing, and the fermenter's been in the mid-80s for a couple of days now. Can't imagine that good things will come of this....

Adding all the grain at once will definitely create some doughballs and lower efficiency.

Look into cooling your fermentation. This is one of the most important methods for making good beer. I keep almost all my beers in the low 60s.

A water bath works great. Just use one of those tubs for kegs:



Fill it with water with the carboy or bucket inside. Keep a floating thermometer in the water, check it a couple of times a day and add ice packs as necessary. Your fermentation temperature is generally a few degrees higher than the water.

If you're concerned about the standing water (mosquitoes, mold, etc.), you can add some potassium metabisulfite to the water and nothing will live in there.

DeathBrewer said:

A water bath works great. Just use one of those tubs for kegs:

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Home Depot has 18 gallon blue tubs just like that for ~$5.99. Super-duper cheap.

I apologize if this has already been asked, but what is the best way to tell if the grains are resting on the bottom of the pan? I am assuming you don't want the grains to be on the bottom of the pan or am I completely wrong? I didn't know if this would scorch them. Thanks for any help, and this is a great thread. Thanks DB...going to try a partial-mash Oberon clone from AHS!

They can rest at the bottom of the pan, because you should never apply heat once your grains are in the pot. You only heat the water and eventually the wort.

Thanks for the quick response. I was thinking after I posted about a full size mash/lauter tun and the grains resting in the bottom or on the false bottom...sorry I should have thought about it more before asking the question. One more question, when using the strike water calculator, I am assuming the temp of grain setting is room temp of the grain? Or do you just leave it at 60 regardless? Thanks again!

I actually throw a floating thermometer (dry) into the grain. It really varies with my storage areas (car, basement, room, etc.) and can be anywhere from 60-80°F, which can really make a difference in the calculations.

If you throw it in wet, it will grab grain around itself and make a little insulator, so make sure it's good and dry before you throw it in the dusty grain, or you'll get an incorrect reading. Let it sit for 5 minutes, check and let it sit again.

nspaldi0 said:

Thanks for the quick response. I was thinking after I posted about a full size mash/lauter tun and the grains resting in the bottom or on the false bottom...sorry I should have thought about it more before asking the question. One more question, when using the strike water calculator, I am assuming the temp of grain setting is room temp of the grain? Or do you just leave it at 60 regardless? Thanks again!

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It's room temperature of the grain as long as your grains are at room temperature. It's just calculating what temperature the water should be in order for the mixture of grain and water to match your strike temperature. So the colder the grain is the warmer the water will have to be and vice versa.

Oh, and grains resting on the false bottom is inevitable for a mash tun. In fact, that's how you get a nice filter bed...from recirculating and getting the little particles out while creating a tight bed against the false bottom.

Thanks guys. I appreciate your answers! I'll have to send some brew your way! If it turns out haha

DeathBrewer said:

They can rest at the bottom of the pan, because you should never apply heat once your grains are in the pot. You only heat the water and eventually the wort.

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What should I do if, during the mash my temp drops too much. Add some heated water? I shouldn't add heat to the pot?

Thanks Deathrbrewer for this pictorial and explanation. I just brewed my beer using this method, a Belgian Blonde, and kegged it yesterday. It was my second batch ever.

OG: 1.067
FG: 1.009

Had a question though. What happens if I added heat during the Mash? It didn't really need it but I didn't know I wasn't supposed to. Grains weren't touching the bottom as far as I could tell.

electronjunkie said:

Thanks Deathrbrewer for this pictorial and explanation. I just brewed my beer using this method, a Belgian Blonde, and kegged it yesterday. It was my second batch ever.

OG: 1.067
FG: 1.009

Had a question though. What happens if I added heat during the Mash? It didn't really need it but I didn't know I wasn't supposed to. Grains weren't touching the bottom as far as I could tell.

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I 'm very sure you havent hurt your mash at all..its not like you turned the burner on high and left it..the heat is dissapated very fast withthe water in there..I have put the burner on many time to get a few more degrees..with the good pots that have the encapsulated bottoms you just have to watch your timing so you dont over heat..I do aggree with Deatbrewer that you really shouldnt heat the mash and get more practice so you dont have to ..which means more beer!!