Hop combination, too much???

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duffstuff

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Firstly thanks for all the help I get off this site , really helpful and has eased my worries more than once at this stage.. I'm a few batches into extract brewing ..

Ok I got some hops I don't usually have, I researched them but wanted to experiment so I threw them in the following recipe and I have no clue how these hops will work out. I'm happy to wait and see but I just curious if I have gone a little wayward ! Thanks for any opinions or comments.
500g Munich
500g caramunich
500g carahell

3kg dme

60 mins 1 oz Columbus
45 mins 1 oz northern brewer
30 mins 1 oz challenger
5 mins 1 oz goldings
1 min 1 oz goldings
 
Yes. I think your 30m is kind of a waste as well. Move it to either 60m or 20m and later. Better yet 15m and later.

I believe most hop additions between 60m and 15m to be kind of a waste. You don't get much bettering and most of the flavor and aroma boil off.
 
I'm a beginner too, but my understanding is that hops added at the beginning of the boil contribute bitterness (it takes a long boil to break down the alpha acids and make them water-soluble), but the long boil also either destroys or disperses the fragile oils that give the hop aroma and flavor. I don't think flavor matters much for the bittering hops; generally you want to use a relatively inexpensive hop with a high percentage of alpha acids, entirely for cost savings (somebody feel free to correct me if that isn't accurate). Save the hops with a great flavor/aroma for closer to the end of the boil.

Therefore it makes sense to decide whether you want to use a given hop for bittering or for aroma or flavor (or all of the above). But add them either at the beginning or somewhere in the last 15 minutes; if you add them in the middle you're not getting as much bitterness out of them as you could (and could therefore achieve the same by adding fewer hops sooner), while you're also boiling away all the flavor.

In other words, you can use the same hop for both bittering and flavor--just add it twice (once at the beginning and again toward the end of the boil).
 
I know you didn't ask about the grain bill but you've got a kg of caramel malt there - over 20%. I'd back that down a bit so as not to be overly sweet if you're going for a hoppy beer.
 
chickypad said:
I know you didn't ask about the grain bill but you've got a kg of caramel malt there - over 20%. I'd back that down a bit so as not to be overly sweet if you're going for a hoppy beer.

I just steep these for 30 mins before the boil. I didn't realize it would sweeten it up. Any advice on how to change it a bit ? For a hoppy beer. Thanks a million .
 
I wouldn't say the hops in the mid-range are wasted. Dogfish 60 or 90 (or even 120 if you're state allows it :p) are all continuously hopped and the flavor profile that develops is definitely different than what you can get using only early and late additions.

Granted, I've never done a 1:1 comparison with homebrew, but I have to believe it all depends how complex of a flavor you're looking for.
 
60 minute additions a waste? That's the bittering addition & it's a given that you get no flavor from that one. But 45 & 30 I def concider a waste. You're getting more bittering,& at 30 you get about as much bittering as flavor. Do 60 & 20 minute additions,even a 10 minute one. Imo,a 1 minute addition isn't giving much of anything. If I want aroma,I dry hop 1 week. I don't add hops belw 8 to 10 minutes in the boil. Dpending on how many additions I'm doing.
 
I just steep these for 30 mins before the boil. I didn't realize it would sweeten it up. Any advice on how to change it a bit ? For a hoppy beer. Thanks a million .

Caramel/cyrstal malts will give you some sweetness that may range from lighter caramel to dark and raisiny, see this.

For pale ales/IPA's I personally wouldn't go over 10% (actually I usually go around 5%). Dropping the caramel to 500g or less would get you in that range. If you want you could bump the DME just a bit to compensate, depending on what you are shooting for as far as OG.
Another option is to throw in 0.5-1 kg of pale malt and do a partial mash. It's really not that much harder than steeping, and Munich should really be mashed anyway. Lots of info on the forum about easy partail mash techniques.
 
I wouldn't say the hops in the mid-range are wasted. Dogfish 60 or 90 (or even 120 if you're state allows it :p) are all continuously hopped and the flavor profile that develops is definitely different than what you can get using only early and late additions.

Granted, I've never done a 1:1 comparison with homebrew, but I have to believe it all depends how complex of a flavor you're looking for.

I said kind of a waste. I agree it does something different by adding hops between 60m and 15m. I just don't do it. I don't poo poo the idea but generally advise against it.

I have read of some people who will only add hops at 60m and 1m or later with a dryhop.

This is what I read.

My outlook on 30-minute additions is similar to yours in that I don't think they hurt anything, but they can be wasteful. When I want the hops to shine, I'll use the three additions I mentioned earlier (or, in the case of something like a Pilsner, I'd skip the dry hops). For malty lagers, I may only do two additions: start of boil and 10-20 minutes from the end. For beers with fruits or spices, I'll often use only one addition at the start of the boil.

Hop oils are very volatile and easily driven out of wort by boiling, i.e. the escaping steam helps push them into the air, which is why whirlpool additions are a good way to extract them. I'd wager that increasing the boil time does things like this (I'm not claiming these specific things happen at the stated times, but I think it illustrates the general concept pretty well):

-Whirlpool additions retain all but the smallest oil molecules (small molecules are more volatile than large ones).
-A 10-minute addition is like a whirlpool addition but it also drives off medium-sized oil molecules.
-A 20-minute addition is like a 10-minute addition but it also drives off large oil molecules.
-A 30-minute addition is like a 20-minute addition but it also drives off small oxidized oil molecules (oxidized oils, some of which provide nice flavors, are less volatile than non-oxidized oils).
-Etc.

Where I'm going with this is that mid-boil additions can help you select specific flavor profiles. For example, a small 20-minute addition can impart a subtle noble hop character to a malty lager. If you were to move those hops to the whirlpool, the extra oils would overwhelm the desirable flavors and throw the beer out of balance.

In another link he talked about focusing more on essential oils instead of alpha acid levels.
 
I'm thinking that's the reason why original species of hops taste better. The essencial oils are higher to that end. Have to look at that.
 
Thanks a million for all the input, once again I have learned more than I thought I would . Really appreciated ..cheers.
 
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