Pliny the Elder - First Partial-Mash Tomorrow!

I may be reaching a bit... only my second brew, but when they guy at the local shop said the kit was usually over $100 bucks and on sale for $50, I had to give it a go.

First brew was a very simple extract only kit. Turned out very nice... though pretty mellow for our tastes. Since then I've purchased and studied the How To Brew book and hopefully am ready for this much more complicated brew.

Wish me luck!!

good luck man, and give it hell! I'm on my 5th batch, and all have been extract with specialty grains, but after asking around here, I started mashing my specialty grains, which although won't add much, gets me some practice with mashing temps, water etc.

Good luck with it, hopefully it turns out awesome, I've never had that beer but will probably brew that monster at some point too. Let us know how it goes.

Im going on my 6th batch also and have started some mashing,i always steep some grain with all to learn the characteristics of them.But am still confused about protein rests for wheat or 2 row or some of the base grains. I never did a protein rest with my american wheat partial.Although i turned it into an ipa by using more amarillo hops kinda by accident.
Ive never seen a kit @ 100$ did it come with a set of gold laced crystal glasses.Ha. I know Plimy is suppose to be one of the best Ipa's but never have had the oppertunity to try it.Im going to do my first ipa next am trying to conjure something up. Hope you like your kit. can you list the ingredients?

$100? Wow... how large a batch does that make?! It's "only" $65 here... http://morebeer.com/view_product/18...liny_the_Elder"_Double_IPA_-_Extract_Beer_Kit

I must make this one next!

i didn't pay 100 for it... that's just what he said it normally cost. i paid 50 for it. i searched the boards here and saw a few other posts stating it was 100+ dollar kit, so i figured he wasn't blowing smoke up my a$$.

brew day went fine... at least as far as i know based on my limited experience. this is only my second brew and it's been about 12 hours now and i've yet to have any activity in the bubbler... so i'm a bit nervous. i know i don't have to be and that some times it takes a while to get activity, but still. my first brew started bubbling within a couple hours, so the delay with this one makes me a little unsettled considering how much i paid for the kit.

i was also a little concerned because my OG was only 1.050. on the RR site, it says the OG of PTL is 1.071. that's quite a difference no?

anyway, ingredients:

1lb 2-Row Malt
5oz Crystal 40L Malt
13oz Carapils Dextrin Malt

7.4lb Briess Pilsen-Light Liquid Malt Extract
1lb Dextrose

2oz Chinook Hops
2.75oz Warrior Hops
2oz Simcoe Hops
1oz Columbus Hops
2.25oz Centennial Hops

1tsp Irish Moss

Plus the following for dry-hopping:

3.25oz Columbus Hops
1.75oz Centennial Hops
1.75oz Simcoe Hops

UPATE: Yay... I have fermentation activity!! The bubbler still isn't bubbling, but I see little bubbles floating to the surface. Last time I used a bucket and this time I'm in a carboy. I also had trouble keeping the bucket cold enough last time, and this time it's the opposite... I'm having to use a brewband and a blanket to keep the wort warm enough. I think the combination of factors is contributing to the delay in bubbler activity.

I am holding 68-70 degrees now though (using a light timer to turn the brew band on and off in 1.5 hour intervals) and do see active (though not aggressive) fermentation taking place.

Yay!

never heard of this brew. what are the characteristics? why on earth would any 5 gal kit be 100 dollars? boy if its that good, im gunna have to make it!

byproxy said:

i was also a little concerned because my OG was only 1.050. on the RR site, it says the OG of PTL is 1.071. that's quite a difference no?

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That's on the light side. Even the extract alone should get you passed that to around 1.055 (depending on your water volumes), and the partial mash should boost it up even more.

Was this a full boil or partial boil? If you did a partial boil, it's probably just a mis-measure.

not sure jig... the recipe called for a 45 minute steep of the grain. i then used the "easy partial mash" instructions regarding the sparge and so did an additional steep of the grain for 10 minutes after the initial steep. is that considered a full boil or a partial boil?

how might i have mismeasured? was i supposed to take the reading of just the wort before the addition of the water? my process was as follows:

did the grain and hop steep/boil (total of 55 minutes for the grain and total of 1h35m for the hops), then i strained the wort into my bottling bucket (to remove as much break as possible... most of which was from the hops pellets), then added approx 4.5 gallons of water to bottling bucket, mixed well and took my hygro reading direct from the bucket before then using the spigot on the bucket to aerate/transfer into my 6gal carboy. then pitched yeast (that i had rehydrated just before pitching).

might I have done something wrong there?

Without full boils, it's typical to have the wort and top-off water not completely mixed well, so when you took or OG sample, it was more water than wort. If your final volume was accurate, then the you shouldn't have been far off from the target.

If you love hoppy, citrusy beers, ur gona be in heaven. This is one super beer. I am almost ready to do my 2nd all grain. The beer is made by Russian River in CA. They don't make enough to ship to far east. Remember, this beer is made to be consumed FRESH. Even the label states that.

Good luck and enjoy.

Cheers

business: thanks for the info. hopefully that's what happened. i will say this though... my final volume was a tad short. i'm not sure why the recipe called for the addition of 5.25 gallons of water at the end when there was already 2gal in the wort. that's 7.25 gallons total and i don't have room for that in my buckets or carboys. that said, i shorted the final water by about 1.25 gallons. hope that didn't totally ruin things!

Something's odd to me. When did you add the extract?

I think what the recipe called for was probably something like "after your partial mash is done, add 5.25 gallons of water and the extract and boil for 60 minutes. When it's done boiling you'll be around 5 gallons (or 5.5 maybe)."

Is that what you did?

thanks jig. i'm still new to this and i certainly don't want to violate any "rules" by posting a recipe from a local home brew shop as i'm not sure what the protocol there is, but here's the abbreviated instructions:

steep grain in 1 gallon of water for 45 minutes
sparge with 1 gallon of water (i did an additional 10 minute steep at this point)
combine sparge with original (making 2 gallons of wort)
boil and add add extract (7.5 lbs... maybe .25 gallon or so worth of liquid?)
add dextros
bring to boil and add various hops and boil for the various times listed
cool wort then add 5.25 gallons of water
cool entire mix to 70 (which i already had by that point) and pitch yeast

so according to recipe, total liquid just in water is 7.25 gallons. add in the 7.4lbs of extract and you maybe get another .25 gallons on top of that for a total of 7.5 gallons. since everything i own is for 6 gallons... i had to short the water a bit.

Interesting. Are you sure the recipe says "add 5.25 gallons", and not "top off until you are at 5.25 gallons?" I'd be surprised if a kit wanted you to ferment 7.5 gallons, that's a pretty odd batch size for a kit.

At any rate, in regards to your original concern of being 1.050 OG, a "partial boil" is what you did - it's when you only boil part of what is eventually fermented, and you top it off with water in the carboy. It is very hard to get an accurate OG reading from a partial boil unless you stir the crap out of the wort after you've topped it off. So I wouldn't worry too much about missing a few points there. Though that wouldn't explain missing by .02... that's would happen either from adding too much top off water, or not getting enough efficiency from your partial mash. Regardless your beer will be great, just trying to help you identify why you missed the OG.

I just got a 6 bottles of Pliny for xmas, my first time. I'm loving it! I also got a "gift certificate" for a designated driver to take me to RR's brew pub for lunch sometime soon, that will be a blast!

oh ****... you got it jig... it says to "top up to 5.25 gallons".

crap! i probably have like .75 gallon too much water in there!! i'm at probably very close to 6 gallons total!!!

either i just misread it... or i didn't understand it when it said "top up to". what a stupid newb mistake eh?

how bad of an error is that... major or minor? LOL

Don't worry about it, I've made a similar mistake before where I put too much water in my kettle, and my beer ended up light, but it's only obvious to the person making the beer, not the person drinking the beer.

The beer will turn out fine, it'll just be lighter than Pliny. Who knows, maybe you'll end up liking it better this way.

byproxy said:

oh ****... you got it jig... it says to "top up to 5.25 gallons".

crap! i probably have like .75 gallon too much water in there!! i'm at probably very close to 6 gallons total!!!

either i just misread it... or i didn't understand it when it said "top up to". what a stupid newb mistake eh?

how bad of an error is that... major or minor? LOL

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meh, major cuz you didn't hit your numbers, minor cuz its still going to be beer. It could be fixed if you had more extract and a bigger bucket to ferment in but I wouldn't bother.

so i guess my follow up knowing now i screwed up is how to know what my ABV is going to be? based on the ingredients listed and the fact that i topped to 6 gallons instead of 5.25, is my OG reading of 1.050 actually accurate?

I would say use a brewing calculator to figure it and a estimate final. Then leave it for 3 weeks or how long you plan on before botteling get a hydro then get one 3 days later and if it dosnt drop bottle it.
Alot of people say that topping off causes inaccurate hydro readings because it doesnt mix well at first .and you dont want to mix when warm or hot by the way ever,I would just use that or reconfigure on a brew calculator to find a finish gravity then check your actually gravity once you bottle.
I never ended up knowing what my og on my first beer was because i didnt have a hydro til i bottled but i figured it out on a brewcalculator by plugging in my recipe and it came out pretty close,in fact i got an exact final gravity,not saying you will because after plugging in numbers to two different calculators i came up with different readings which was kind of disappointing. Fact is you may not get a real accurate abv but pretty close. Hope this helps. Only thing that matters is bottle when the hydro stopps dropping between three days and you will have some good beer.only a little less stronger.who cares about a percent really.The only real problem you have is to wait for it to finish so you can drink it,ha. cheers.

thanks for the tip! any suggestions on a calculator?

no rush on this one. recipe says to wait 2 weeks before racking to secondary for dryhoping. then another 2 in the secondary and then 3 in the bottle.

should i take gravity readings from the primary or just rack to secondary after two weeks and then start taking gravity readings after two weeks in the secondary to check for fermentation completion?

I would take one at racking to secondary as long as you assume the yeast have done there thing. i have glass and can see the yeast cake on bottem and the ring around the top and also see the foamy bubbles on top of the 5 ive only done but only got 2 with airlock bubbles.Most newb's freak if their airlock is not bubbeling, i was concerned also i my first brew but have since learned its only a tool to keep too much co2 out and air from entering in. If you have a tight seal and not much headspace you could have a good active airlock.But the gravity reading is up to you when to do it. I personally only want to check it once before botteling when i rack it to bottle but most say to check once then on a third day later and if it doesnt drop and its where your finished should be then go ahead and bottle.

I just keged my batch of Pliny tonight...pulled one cup for gravity readings - missed. FG supposed to be .013 and I am at .019 - tasted it and OMG....sooo gooood! Problem is that I have only had Pliny once and cannot tell how this compares. When I drank my 1 cup of gravity reading beer - I compare what I brewed to be a mix between Stone's Runiation and Avery's Maharaja - both of which I love.

I did a 30 min steep of the grains (mostly for the color) and then a 90 min full boil. It was somewhat difficult for me to keep up with my water volumes as well. This beer has a full pound of total hops which will take up a considerable amount of your liquid due to trub. Are you going to dry-hop with leaf or pellets (assuming pellets since it is a kit).

On the cost - I can see this easily reaching $100 if you use leaf hops to dry with. In my case, I bought all of the ingredients separately and ended up spending $60 bucks and that is all with pellet hops.

The next time I do this, I will have my kettle outfitted with a spigot so I can easily strain the wort before sending to the primary - I will also primary in glass vs. the bucket so I can monitor the clarity throughout. Lastly - I will use leaf hops to dry with - less trub (can you tell that my beer isn't clear?)... I don't give three ****s either cause this beer will not be shared and I rather enjoy the haze of a fresh home-brew!

Cheers on your selection - you will love it!

BrewFrisco said:

I just keged my batch of Pliny tonight...pulled one cup for gravity readings - missed. FG supposed to be .013 and I am at .019

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Are you sure it was done? If it was done, do you know why you missed the FG that much?

today is the day !

TheWeeb said:

today is the day !

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That the Lord has made? You will rejoice and make Pliney Gladly in it?

jonmohno said:

That the Lord has made? You will rejoice and make Pliney Gladly in it?

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Great session, partial mash dead on temp beach towel wrapped pot, even did a bit of fly sparging by placing the sparge water up high and using a siphon tube. OG turned out to be a few points higher than the kit, much green hoppyness mess (did not use a hop bag this time), and the 3L starter pitched at high krausen took off in 90 minutes. Mouth watering as I type this . . .

so the beer is finished... drinking a bottle now. i would call this one a learning experience for sure. the taste is actually quite good. i like it a lot, as dose the 4 other people who've tried it so far.

the problems are chill haze and lack of carbonation. both of which are easily correctable. i didn't have a clear understanding of cold-break when i made this brew. i don't think i got one and am assuming that's why i have chill haze. with respect to the carbonation, i think there just weren't enough yeasties left by the time i bottled. if i were to do this brew again in bottles, i'd probably research the possibility of pitching some more yeast at bottle time. that said, i'm likely going to keg the next batch so the whole carb issue kind of becomes a non-issue.

anyway, thanks to everyone for their input!

There is so much hop material in Pliny that you will have chill haze no matter what you do., to remove the haze you would have to kill lots of the dry hop flavor. The carbonation you can fix of course

How long did you let it carbonate for? Temperatures of the bottles?

businesstime said:

How long did you let it carbonate for? Temperatures of the bottles?

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3 weeks at 66-67 degrees.