First doppelbock/decoction

This should be interesting. I'm going to brew this as an ale, which from research I've found is probably more "traditional" anyway. I'm looking at this recipe, simple, but should be effective.

18lbs munich (lots of varieties, looking at this one: http://www.midwestsupplies.com/products/ProdByID.aspx?ProdID=6667)

1oz hallertau@60
1oz hallertau@15

Either US-05 or Nottingham or Wy2112

Im going to try a single, possibly a double decoction, depending on how the first one goes. The plan is to dough in at 1.33q/lb @122, let it rest 10min. Pull out 40% of grains, boil for 15-20min, return to tun, hopefully it will raise the temp to 150ish. If that works out ill pull another 40% after 30 minutes boil for 15-20, then return raising the temp to 170ish. Rest for 10minutes then drain. Add my sparge, drain and boil the wort for maybe 100min.

Thoughts?

You don't need to be 100%-munich for a bock or dopplebock; the one I did recently was about two-thirds pils, one-third Munich. You're going to get a LOT of melanoidion formation by doing the decoction, especially if you do it for a decent amount of time. I did a double decoction, each boiled for about twenty minutes.

I would NOT use US-05 or Nottingham for this; that's likely going to dry the beer out WAY past what a bock/dopplebock ought to be. If you're insisting on using an ale yeast, at least use the German Ale yeast.

I realize I don't need 100% Munich, i just thought it would be fun and very malty, especially with a single or double decoction. I really couldn't find anything that talked about a normal, or "type" recipe. I want something dark and malty, so i figured 100% munich would get me there. Ill look into the German ale yeast.

the_bird said:

I would NOT use US-05 or Nottingham for this; that's likely going to dry the beer out WAY past what a bock/dopplebock ought to be. If you're insisting on using an ale yeast, at least use the German Ale yeast.

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Or he could just mash higher.

With my decoctions, I've had a hard time hitting mash times with any precision, so I wouldn't count on being able to hit 154 or 156. It just strikes me as the wrong choice if you want to call it a dopplebock; maybe it's an American Bock, but it's going to be different.

You may want to mash the 150F step for longer than 30 minutes.

Also, when you pull out part of the mash for the last decoction (mash out), use the thinnest part of the mash (go ahead and vorlauf and then decoct the appropriate volume of first runnings to boil).

The thinnest part?!? If I do that I'm going to get tons of tannin extraction. I thought the whole purpose of using the think part of the mash is to avoid all of the enzymes etc that are in the thin part.

Since this is my first decoction, im going to have a gallon or so boiling water standing by after the first decoction. Im going to try and hit 153 i think to get a FG around 1.020-1.024.

Still debating about the yeast

syvmn said:

The thinnest part?!? If I do that I'm going to get tons of tannin extraction. I thought the whole purpose of using the think part of the mash is to avoid all of the enzymes etc that are in the thin part.

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You'll get no tannin extraction from the thinnest part, let me clarify:

The first decoction using the thickest part of the mash where you boil mostly grains and some liquid is where you get all of the tannin extraction. This is because you are boiling grains. Some think that the tannins extracted from this part of the decoction process are an appropriate part of the flavor profile of beers typically using the decoction method (slightly astringent flavor).

Decocting the thinnest part (first runnings) at mash out will extract no tannins during decoction, because you are not boiling grains. You are only boiling wort to add back to the mash tun to raise the temp of the mash to mash out temps.

Gotcha, when i first heard of decoction I thought the whole thing was pulling some wort out, boiling it, then adding it back.

So for the initial decoction: pull out mostly grain and enough liquid to cover it, boil, add back to get 153ish.
The second decoction: filter out some wort, boil, add back to get to 170

Seems simple enough though I'm sure I'll miss that 153 somehow. I think ill mash in @ 1.25qt/lb so I have a bit of room to add boiling or cold water to hit the right temps.

Id really like a bigger pot so i can collect 7gal and boil down to 5. (mines 30qt).

Also when you pull your first decoction you need to hold at conversion for 15-20 min. before boiling. I have found to hit temps, you need to pull more than you think, if you think you have enough get a little more in the pot.

syvmn said:

Gotcha, when i first heard of decoction I thought the whole thing was pulling some wort out, boiling it, then adding it back.

So for the initial decoction: pull out mostly grain and enough liquid to cover it, boil, add back to get 153ish.
The second decoction: filter out some wort, boil, add back to get to 170

Seems simple enough though I'm sure I'll miss that 153 somehow. I think ill mash in @ 1.25qt/lb so I have a bit of room to add boiling or cold water to hit the right temps.

Id really like a bigger pot so i can collect 7gal and boil down to 5. (mines 30qt).

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Yeah, it seems complicated, but after doing it once you'll see its pretty straightforward.

In getting to 153F, if you boil at bit more to err on a temp a little higher than 153F, you can easily add a small bit of cold water to get down to that temp. You have to add a whole lot more hot or boiling water to increase the temp to 153F compared to adding cold water to decrease the temp. If you do hit lower, you can always drain off some wort, bring it to a boil, and add it back to the mash tun to hit the right temp.