Who needs welding?? This is easier!

The other day I decided to make my own keggle but didn't have the right equipment to weld on a ball valve or sight tube....here is my solution!

http://www.acehardware.com/product/...solder&parentPage=search&searchId=27763797203

This stuff worked amazing, no leaks and is tough enough for my application, best of all it was cheap and EASY!! If you can solder copper you can solder stainless steel.

What do you guys out there think, have I come up with a cheap solution to welding and weldless fittings or have I set myself up for poisoning by using this stuff?

450 F. melt

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That's the concern, I guess.
It shouldn't be a problem if you always have liquid in the keg, which should aways be the case.

olllllo said:

That's the concern, I guess.
It shouldn't be a problem if you always have liquid in the keg, which should aways be the case.

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I saw that but figured it would never get that hot as you pointed out.

I remember other people saying they'd used silver solder in the past with good results. I'm not very good at soldering - I always make a huge mess - or I would've tried this myself.

I'd be interested in hearing Bobby_M or Yuri's comments on this stuff for those of us with any welding skills. I went with weldless fittings on mine but am still contemplating getting someone to do the welding for me. I work with a lot of contractors at work and could probably find someone willing to do the work for pretty cheap.

Silver solder is a fine way to join stainless parts, assuming you get a properly "wetted" joint, which can be a challenge. This appears to be a very soft alloy; as such, I'd be a little concerned with strength and durability. However, if the joint is solid enough to withstand the stress of wrenching a fitting onto it, then it's probably strong enough to last. Never let your keggle run dry, or you risk heat damaging the joint.

Stainless is not the greatest heat conductor, so it can get a lot hotter than the liquid in it. The lower side walls of my keggle stay above the boiling point for several minutes after flameout - I spray them down with water and it takes quite a lot of spraying before it no longer instantly steams off the water. 450F is still relatively high though. Silicone O-rings, for example, are usually rated for something like 400-500F, and plenty of us use those for weldless valves without them melting.

So, you're probably safe, especially if you're not trying to solder a fitting EXTREMELY low on the keg.

Obviously a trial run is in order - let us know how it goes! If this actually stands up to the heat I may very seriously consider it myself, especially for adding a sight glass or similar, since buying the additional fittings and silicone o-rings for an additional weldless install doesn't sound so appealing right now.

I'm interested in this though I don't know how it would be used to install a port on a keggle. Seems that it would be fine for fitting together pipe etc but I figured you needed the extra strength and material of welding to fill in the gaps from your coupling to the hole in the keggle.

Funkenjaeger said:

Obviously a trial run is in order - let us know how it goes! If this actually stands up to the heat I may very seriously consider it myself, especially for adding a sight glass or similar, since buying the additional fittings and silicone o-rings for an additional weldless install doesn't sound so appealing right now.

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I've used the keggle since I put in the sight glass and ball valve...works great! I didn't see any leaks and the solder seemed to hold up to the heat. I'm 100% satisfied with how its worked so far.

First off, any chance you can give us some pictures? I'd love to take a look at the joints.

So what was your process? Sand and clean the joint area, apply flux, and then solder with a blowtorch?

I assume you were soldering a SS fitting to the keg, not brass or something? What kind of fitting did you actually solder to the keg - half coupler? full coupler? Did you solder it on the surface, or drill the hole so the fitting was a close fit in the hole?

I'm thinking a 1/4" NPT SS full coupling soldered into a close-fit hole would be a good solution for adding a sight glass on my keggle.

And as others have asked, how's the durability? I assume you can't wiggle the fitting with your hand or anything, but will it withstand a bit of strain/impact (ie - threading in a fitting tightly, smacking the side with a hammer, etc) without the joint warping or cracking?

There are a group of brewered on the Green board that use Stay-Brite #8 silver solder and stay-clean flux with amazing results soldering copper to stainless. I'm actually looking at using this myself as well. Solder gives you the ability to make mistakes and remove in the future if you need too. I'd be interested in following this thread as well.

Thanks
Squeeky

I've never tried soldering anything but copper but it sounds promising for those who can't find a reasonable welder.

What was used for a torch?

I apparently cant attach images but I'll work on getting a website up to show off the joints.

To clear things up a bit the solder doesn't actually provide any "support" for these things, it just makes everything water tight. I start out by drilling a hole just large enough that I can screw my "joints" into the keg then I crank the things down so that they are basically stuck there. The only reason that I'm using solder is so wort doesn't seep through. I have soldered both brass fittings and stainless fittings onto my keggle with no problem, easy as pie!

I'm using a regular torch that you would use to solder copper pipes.

So you're not relying on the solder for structural strength, just sealing... I see. Do you think it COULD provide a little strength if needed, or is it really that weak? (I know regular solder is pretty flimsy). I'm thinking of the typical method used when welding a fitting in, where you take a stainless full coupling, drill a hole just big enough for the coupling to fit in (though probably not a tight press fit) and then solder it in place - do you think the solder method would likely be too weak for that, in particular?

I suppose I could just suck it up and hire a welder... But I sure do love DIY...

Ewalk02 said:

I apparently cant attach images but I'll work on getting a website up to show off the joints.

To clear things up a bit the solder doesn't actually provide any "support" for these things, it just makes everything water tight. I start out by drilling a hole just large enough that I can screw my "joints" into the keg then I crank the things down so that they are basically stuck there. The only reason that I'm using solder is so wort doesn't seep through. I have soldered both brass fittings and stainless fittings onto my keggle with no problem, easy as pie!

I'm using a regular torch that you would use to solder copper pipes.

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Sounds to me like the solder is being used as pipe dope.

Ewalk02 said:

I start out by drilling a hole just large enough that I can screw my "joints" into the keg then I crank the things down so that they are basically stuck there.

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Pictures! We need pictures!!!

Exactly what pieces are you soldering to the keg? Is it a coupling, nipple, or some kind of pipe? The picture I remember seeing before was a SS coupling soldered to the keg. There wasn't any other support.

Why dont more ppl just use weldless fittings? That is all I did...

I did too, but I wouldn't say it was necessarily less work than what this sounds like.

The Pol said:

Why dont more ppl just use weldless fittings? That is all I did...

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Because if you want to get creative and go with something other than the typical type of fittings, it generally means you have to buy all the parts and throw it together rather than buying a weldless fitting kit from a place like bargain fittings. That's perfectly fine, because DIY is great, but generally speaking, finding suitable stainless steel washers and silicone O-rings USUALLY involves buying large quantities of them from a place like McMaster-carr. If you are looking to install just one fitting, spending $20-30 on a pack of 50 silicone O-rings and 5-10 stainless steel washers (when you only need 1-2 of each, which separately should have only cost a couple dollars) is really not so great. If you are planning to install a lot of fittings and can use a bunch of them, then great, but if you're only trying to install a single one, then the cost eventually approaches that of getting a fitting welded in, which is obviously a more robust solution.

Maybe I am misunderstanding you, but you can go to almost any homebrew website and they sell weldless fittings for ball valves, sight glasses, thermometers... one at a time... no need to buy 50 from McMaster Carr

The Pol said:

Maybe I am misunderstanding you, but you can go to almost any homebrew website and they sell weldless fittings for ball valves, sight glasses, thermometers... one at a time... no need to buy 50 from McMaster Carr

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Well of course that's true if you want to use a standard fitting, but as I said...

Funkenjaeger said:

Because if you want to get creative and go with something other than the typical type of fittings, it generally means you have to buy all the parts and throw it together rather than buying a weldless fitting kit from a place like bargain fittings.

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I have somewhat different things in mind for what I want to install, rather than a run-of-the-mill sight glass or valve, so I need to either piece things together myself, or buy a 'standard' weldless fitting kit and then remove the pieces I don't need - and neither is all that cost-effective. It's not a huge deal, I'm just saying that soldering would be a nice alternative if it worked out for me because it would eliminate the O-rings and SS washers, which are the problem pieces that usually need to be bought in bulk.

Sorry i don't have the details or a link, but i remember reading a thread i believe on Brewboard aka the "Green Board", where a guy was drilling the keg and tapping threads to recieve a brass or copper fitting. He would then thread the fitting or ball valve onto the keg and then silver solder the fitting for strength and sealing purposes.

This seemed like a quality installation to me!

I've silver "soldered" several brew pots, but this was really brazing with a rod that requires more heat than a simple propane (or Mapp) torch can deliver. The rod I used requires heating the SS up to cherry red. I can torque on these fittings no problem. A proper braze can be as strong as a weld.

http://picasaweb.google.com/bbewert21/SolderWorks

Sorry it took so long for the pics...I've been busy at work.

Gotta say, it looks quite good!

So what exactly did you solder to the keg? Is that a hex nipple, or a nipple with a nut, a hex coupling, or something else? It's hard to tell exactly.

Lil' Sparky said:

So what exactly did you solder to the keg? Is that a hex nipple, or a nipple with a nut, a hex coupling, or something else? It's hard to tell exactly.

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It is a hex coupling, i think it was 1/2 threads on the outside (going into the keg) and 3/8 on the inside (where nipple and ball valve attach).

Cool, thanks. I guess any of the above would work, actually.