Cascadian Dark help - Does this look ok?

Hi guys,
I've been working on a Cascadian Dark Ale, and was hoping for some feedback. I took the grain bill from modernlifeisANDY's excellent looking None More Black recipe, and just upped the numbers to give it a slightly higher OG. The hop schedule is my own, I'm wanting to create a very west coast tasting beer with lots of citrus nose, that will carry me through the damp and cool (but not cold) winters where I am. Any comments on how you think this will come out will be welcome. This is my first attempt at building a recipe, and will be only my second AG batch.

Sorry everything is in metric, it's how we roll up here :rockin:


The Three Hundred Cascadian Dark - Tweed Curtain Brewwerks

Recipe Overview
Wort Volume Before Boil: 25.00 l Wort Volume After Boil: 23.00 l
Volume Transferred: 23.00 l Water Added To Fermenter: 0.00 l
Volume At Pitching: 23.00 l Volume Of Finished Beer: 19.00 l
Expected Pre-Boil Gravity: 1.064 SG Expected OG: 1.070 SG
Expected FG: 1.017 SG Apparent Attenuation: 75.0 %
Expected ABV: 7.1 % Expected ABW: 5.6 %
Expected IBU (using Tinseth): 76.0 IBU Expected Color (using Morey): 25.0 SRM
BU:GU ratio: 1.09 Approx Color:
Mash Efficiency: 70.0 %
Boil Duration: 60.0 mins
Fermentation Temperature: 18 degC


Fermentables
Ingredient Amount % MCU When
US 2-Row Malt 6.014 kg 79.4 % 3.9 In Mash/Steeped
US Munich 20L Malt 0.668 kg 8.8 % 4.8 In Mash/Steeped
US Carapils Malt 0.334 kg 4.4 % 0.2 In Mash/Steeped
US Caramel 80L Malt 0.334 kg 4.4 % 9.7 In Mash/Steeped
German Carafa III 0.222 kg 2.9 % 42.3 In Mash/Steeped


Hops
Variety Alpha Amount IBU Form When
US Cascade 4.5 % 15 g 6.0 Loose Whole Hops 60 Min From End
US Willamette 4.5 % 15 g 6.0 Loose Whole Hops 60 Min From End
US Centennial 8.5 % 15 g 11.2 Loose Whole Hops 60 Min From End
US Centennial 8.5 % 15 g 9.9 Loose Whole Hops 40 Min From End
US Cascade 4.5 % 15 g 5.2 Loose Whole Hops 40 Min From End
US Willamette 4.5 % 15 g 5.2 Loose Whole Hops 40 Min From End
US Centennial 8.5 % 25 g 11.3 Loose Whole Hops 20 Min From End
US Cascade 4.5 % 25 g 6.0 Loose Whole Hops 20 Min From End
US Willamette 4.5 % 25 g 6.0 Loose Whole Hops 20 Min From End
US Willamette 4.5 % 30 g 2.4 Loose Whole Hops 5 Min From End
US Centennial 8.5 % 30 g 4.5 Loose Whole Hops 5 Min From End
US Cascade 4.5 % 30 g 2.4 Loose Whole Hops 5 Min From End
US Cascade 4.5 % 15 g 0.0 Loose Whole Hops Dry-Hopped
US Centennial 8.5 % 15 g 0.0 Loose Whole Hops Dry-Hopped
US Willamette 4.5 % 15 g 0.0 Loose Whole Hops Dry-Hopped


Other Ingredients
Ingredient Amount When


Yeast
Wyeast 1056-American Ale


Water Profile
Target Profile: No Water Profile Chosen
Mash pH: 5.2
pH Adjusted with: Unadjusted

Total Calcium (ppm): 0 Total Magnesium (ppm): 0
Total Sodium (ppm): 0 Total Sulfate (ppm): 0
Total Chloride(ppm): 0 Total Bicarbonate (ppm): 0


Mash Schedule
Mash Type: Full Mash
Schedule Name: Single Step Infusion (66C/151F)

Step Type Temperature Duration
Rest at 66 degC 60

Bump, looking to brew this next weekend. Definitely would appreciate any feedback.

I just brewed one of these with about the same amount and style of hops, a little less in the boil and twice as much in the dry hop (amarillo, cascade and centennial). Mine has about 0.4 kg of Carafa III and a similar amount of caramel 60. Although it has just gone into the bottles, I was surprised that the roastiness is sufficient to cover up a good portion of the dry hop aroma. Maybe it will develop with time but it was unexpected.

Well done!

The 40 minute hop addition seems unnecessary to me. I'd just shuffle some to the 60 minute addition to keep the same IBU and throw the rest in at flameout. Also, I'd increase the carafa to around 4%, just to be darker and to get a little more of that soft roast that it provides. Finally, some like willamette but I don't. If you know what it tastes like and like it then great, but if you've never used it then I'd reconsider.

Thanks for the input guys. The consensus seems to be to bump up the carafa a bit (4% sounds like a good round number). As for the hops, I think I’ll take jmo88’s advice and get rid of the 40m addition, add enough to the 60 to maintain the IBUs. The remainder I will put into more dry-hopping (rather than flameout) because I want to address brewitt’s concern about insufficient aroma. I definitely want lots of aroma. I’ll ruminate a bit on the Willamette issue. I may just turf them. I only added them as my local supplier does not have any Columbus whole leaf (originally going to be a three c whole leaf). If they won’t give me the profile I’m looking for, they’re gone.

Cheers,
WCH

Looks like my LHBS doesn’t carry any sort of Carafa. Any thoughts on a substitute? He does have black patent.

WestCoastHopper said:

Looks like my LHBS doesn’t carry any sort of Carafa. Any thoughts on a substitute? He does have black patent.

Click to expand...

You can add the black patent in at the very end of the mash or even do a cold water steep of the black malt. . Personally, I like a nice roasitness to my CDA, I can't understand the point of making a beer black just for color purposes.

Personally, I would use a combo of choco and either roasted barley or black patent to darken it up for the entire mash. If you want less roasty deliciousness add to the end of the mash.

permo said:

You can add the black patent in at the very end of the mash or even do a cold water steep of the black malt. . Personally, I like a nice roasitness to my CDA, I can't understand the point of making a beer black just for color purposes.

Personally, I would use a combo of choco and either roasted barley or black patent to darken it up for the entire mash. If you want less roasty deliciousness add to the end of the mash.

Click to expand...

Oh, I'm good with roasty. Maybe a half and half of choco and black patent?

Hi guys, thanks again for your help on my recipe. Here's the latest version, which I am going to brew this weekend. Any thoughts before I pull the trigger on the grain (I already have the hops).

Recipe: The Three Hundred Cascadian Dark - Tweed Curtain Brewwerks

Recipe Overview

Wort Volume Before Boil: 25.00 l
Wort Volume After Boil: 23.00 l
Volume Transferred: 23.00 l
Water Added: 0.00 l
Volume At Pitching: 23.00 l
Final Batch Volume: 19.00 l
Expected Pre-Boil Gravity: 1.060 SG
Expected OG: 1.065 SG
Expected FG: 1.016 SG
Expected ABV: 6.6 %
Expected ABW: 5.1 %
Expected IBU (using Tinseth): 81.4
Expected Color: 25.7 SRM
Apparent Attenuation: 75.0 %
Mash Efficiency: 70.0 %
Boil Duration: 60.0 mins
Fermentation Temperature: 18 degC

Fermentables
US 2-Row Malt 5.500 kg (78.1 %) In Mash/Steeped
US Munich 20L Malt 0.620 kg (8.8 %) In Mash/Steeped
US Carapils Malt 0.310 kg (4.4 %) In Mash/Steeped
US Caramel 80L Malt 0.310 kg (4.4 %) In Mash/Steeped
US Black Malt 0.150 kg (2.1 %) In Mash/Steeped
US Chocolate Malt 0.150 kg (2.1 %) In Mash/Steeped

Hops
US Cascade (4.5 % alpha) 35 g Loose Whole Hops used 60 Min From End
US Centennial (8.5 % alpha) 35 g Loose Whole Hops used 60 Min From End
US Centennial (8.5 % alpha) 40 g Loose Whole Hops used 20 Min From End
US Cascade (4.5 % alpha) 40 g Loose Whole Hops used 20 Min From End
US Centennial (8.5 % alpha) 45 g Loose Whole Hops used 5 Min From End
US Cascade (4.5 % alpha) 45 g Loose Whole Hops used 5 Min From End
US Cascade (4.5 % alpha) 30 g Loose Whole Hops used Dry-Hopped
US Centennial (8.5 % alpha) 30 g Loose Whole Hops used Dry-Hopped

Other Ingredients

Yeast: Wyeast 1056-American Ale

Mash Schedule
Mash Type: Full Mash
Schedule Name:Single Step Infusion (66C/151F)
Step: Rest at 66 degC for 60 mins

Well, I got my stuff but had to change things on the fly anyway. My LHBS got a moldy batch of Munich, so had none. I upped the pale and chocolate to account for the loss (for colour anyway). We'll see how it turns out.

jmo88 said:

Well done!

The 40 minute hop addition seems unnecessary to me. I'd just shuffle some to the 60 minute addition to keep the same IBU and throw the rest in at flameout. Also, I'd increase the carafa to around 4%, just to be darker and to get a little more of that soft roast that it provides. Finally, some like willamette but I don't. If you know what it tastes like and like it then great, but if you've never used it then I'd reconsider.

Click to expand...

Not sure I get this comment. You could say that about any hop you've never used. I've used Willamette, not my go to favorite hop but it is fine and would work here or in many beers. I don't like Saaz all that much but I'd not tell you to skip it.

If you are brewing your own recipe it's best to just do it and not get pushed off using something because somebody doesn't like it. The Willamette is a pretty well used hop. You might consider doing some SMASH brews or buying some commercial brews that feature certain hops you are thinking of using.

samc said:

Not sure I get this comment. You could say that about any hop you've never used. I've used Willamette, not my go to favorite hop but it is fine and would work here or in many beers. I don't like Saaz all that much but I'd not tell you to skip it.

If you are brewing your own recipe it's best to just do it and not get pushed off using something because somebody doesn't like it. The Willamette is a pretty well used hop. You might consider doing some SMASH brews or buying some commercial brews that feature certain hops you are thinking of using.

Click to expand...

I agree. Find out for yourself. But he wants a citrusy west coast hop character, and I don't feel willamette fits the bill at all. Just trying to help in case he was expecting willamette to help with that goal.

This is looking more like a hoppy stout than a CDA/BIPA. In fact, it is looking like a toned down version of a Russian Imperial Stout like Old Rasputin. Nevertheless, it looks very tasty. I think you will have plenty of bitterness but I am wondering whether you need to double your dry hop. I just bottled a Black IPA and the hoppy aroma gets hidden a bit by the roasty character. Yours will be significantly more roasty than mine. Looking forward to hearing how it turns out.

WestCoastHopper said:

Well, I got my stuff but had to change things on the fly anyway. My LHBS got a moldy batch of Munich, so had none. I upped the pale and chocolate to account for the loss (for colour anyway). We'll see how it turns out.

Click to expand...

Hrm, I bought some 2lbs of Munich a week ago on Finlayson no problems. I wonder if I got the last of that bunch and then they ordered more? lol I've been ordering in pounds, but I'd like to see their faces when you ask for .310 kilos of a certain grain

You need to start growing some hops.. You must've almost bought all the hops in the store with this bill!

itchison said:

Hrm, I bought some 2lbs of Munich a week ago on Finlayson no problems. I wonder if I got the last of that bunch and then they ordered more? lol I've been ordering in pounds, but I'd like to see their faces when you ask for .310 kilos of a certain grain

You need to start growing some hops.. You must've almost bought all the hops in the store with this bill!

Click to expand...

Yeah, you did take the last of the Munich, oh well. I suspect it may cut down on the malt a bit. For the hops I went to Bedford over in Esquimalt. They have tubs of whole hops. After the green sludge left in my kettle yesterday (APA using pellet hops), I think that's all I'm using! What a mess. Darn near clogged my pickup tube.

I'll let you know how this one goes, I'm brewing it today.

Brewitt said:

This is looking more like a hoppy stout than a CDA/BIPA. In fact, it is looking like a toned down version of a Russian Imperial Stout like Old Rasputin. Nevertheless, it looks very tasty. I think you will have plenty of bitterness but I am wondering whether you need to double your dry hop. I just bottled a Black IPA and the hoppy aroma gets hidden a bit by the roasty character. Yours will be significantly more roasty than mine. Looking forward to hearing how it turns out.

Click to expand...

Good thought. My latest version calls for a little over 2 oz (60 g), if that's not enough I'll adjust it on the next batch.

Thanks for the help guys! The day went fine, up until all those hops plugged my pickup tube. Eventually I had to break out my auto-syphon to get it out. I hope nothing got infected. My efficiency also seemed way low (OG of 1.05). I'll have to figure that one out for next time. Anyway, it tasted great, and is happily bubbling.