Go stainless or go home?

First post!!

I've done some searching on the forums on this subject and haven't found any conclusive evidence either way so I'll just pose my question for those of you much more experienced folks to answer.

I'm making the jump to all grain and am (like everyone and their grandmother) building an MLT out of a cooler. I've been reading arguments from both sides on the merits of stainless steel pipe fittings vs. brass.

I'm leaning towards stainless steel since I'm not a big fan of the idea of lead in my beer. Metal poisoning doesn't sound fun at all. I've read that "pickling" the brass actual brings out more lead than it gets rid of.

Any ideas/suggestions? Am I cheating myself out of anything by going with stainless?

tubz said:

Am I cheating myself out of anything by going with stainless?

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WARNING: totally biased response here:

I think you would be cheating yourself out of lots of money.

I use brass whenever possible because I'm not made of money and the fittings are available locally. I think its a bunch of hot air saying that I'm in danger of lead poisoning because I'm risking a few molecules of lead in a five gallon batch of beer. I expect I'm exposed to more than that every time I go outside. I would probably need to drink 35,000 beers from my equipment to equal one can of tuna.

I just don't think that argument holds any water. Maybe someone can follow up and actually show us the clinical study that says brass fittings, for potable water I might add, are dangerous to our health? There are tons of old wives tales related to home brewing that are debunked here all the time. For example: the requirement to use a secondary, scorched wort in a RIMS system, etc. Brass fittings will be one of the next to be debunked.

Sorry for the rant, I just think dangerous lead levels is one of those things that somebody heard from somebody else who heard it from a friend. While there may be lead in the fittings, it is not at a level to be of concern.

I challenge anyone to produce evidence of a case of lead poisoning from using brass fittings in a home brewery. I've never heard anything but people repeating what other people heard from other people.

Stainless is a nice piece of mind.....and it's a nice bling factor. When building the big rigs, what's a little more to make it look great. That said, I have a brass ball valve in my mash tun I've been using the past 2 years. Everything is being changed to stainless in my new build though. For cool factor and I want my brewery to look nice when it's done.

Your kitchen faucet is likely brass, gonna change that too? If you are truly concerned about using brass fittings, you will likely be in for other changes in your everyday environment.

Make an informed decision, that's all.

Brass is 3% lead. The idea that 3% of the surface area of a brass fitting could affect the taste of your beer (much less your health) is nonsense.

Last week a wasp land in my boil kettle while I was brewing. I didn't worry about that and it don't worry about the tiny bit of brass in my MLT fittings.

I have the brass QD's from McMaster and would like to swap them out for SS ones. I don't worry about the lead, but every time I pull my equipment out, I have one or two QD's that have partially turned green - that bothers me. I clean and sanitize all my equipment before putting it away and don't understand why some discolor. SS fittings won't do this. However, my setup has 16 sets of QD's on it and it is currently cost prohibitive to change them to SS, so I have to live with the green brass!

? is my answer..... it tarnishes and can corrode with acids I don't believe brass is UL approved for brewing is it going to kill you not likely

i spend the few extra dollars and went stainless

take the price difference between brass and stainless

divide that by the total gallons you will brew in the next one/two years

the cost difference is negligible

MoreBeer SS QD's for my build is around $450. Is that negligible?

If you're just starting out and piecing together a system, I agree, get the SS ones as you're probably not needing that many pieces.

I'll swap mine over at some point, but I'll at least wait until they come up on one of the sales.

arturo7 said:

take the price difference between brass and stainless

divide that by the total gallons you will brew in the next one/two years

the cost difference is negligible

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Take the price difference between brass and stainless, compare that initial cost when you are dropping coin on it against the money in your brew fund. The cost difference is still there.

JonW said:

MoreBeer SS QD's for my build is around $450. Is that negligible?

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you forgot to divide by the number of gallons you'll brew

not to mention subtracting the cost of the alternative

cheers, hb

arturo7 said:

you forgot to divide by the number of gallons you'll brew

cheers

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I did the dividings but my bank still says I don't have $450 dollars. Am I doing the maths wrong?

klyph said:

I did the dividings but my bank still says I don't have $450 dollars. Am I doing the maths wrong?

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Maybe you need to divide by the number of gallons over the next say five years, then the bank will tell you ya got the money..

wilserbrewer said:

Maybe you need to divide by the number of gallons over the next say five years, then the bank will tell you ya got the money..

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Yup, and then buy a house that's way too big and a big fancy car that I can get a 7 year loan on and the bank will always have the money! isn't that a great idea!!!

Just because you justify something like that, doesn't mean it's a smart idea. Money is still money. take those savings and brew more beer!

JonW said:

MoreBeer SS QD's for my build is around $450. Is that negligible?

If you're just starting out and piecing together a system, I agree, get the SS ones as you're probably not needing that many pieces.

I'll swap mine over at some point, but I'll at least wait until they come up on one of the sales.

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I have the More beer SS disconnects on my whole system, Pump, Kettle, HTL hoses and Mashtun and more NO WAY did it cost me $450. Like someone said above take the cost difference between SS and brass over a year or two brewing and we are talking penny's. Me I do not have any brass in my system but that is my choice.

I'm really enjoying my new camlock style disconnects (stainless steel). They were really, really cheap and they're very effective.

I do have a couple pieces of brass hardware on the system (2 3/4"-/1/2" adapters), but I'm not worried about them.

Brew-boy said:

NO WAY did it cost me $450.

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I think I can do basic math. I was actually estimating on the low side. I have 16 pair of QD's. I don't do any hose swaps during brewing and my setup is plumbed from the HLT all the way to the fermenter.

B3's price for a set is only for threaded or barbed - if you want to mix the fittings, the price jumps up. I think most people probably want threaded males on the equipment and barbed females on the hoses.

16 x $10.95 for threaded male QD's is $175.20
16 x $21.50 for barbed female QD's is $344.00

Total cost for SS QD sets would be $519.20

austin home brew has a great deal on camlock fittings right now

it averages out about $10 a set

That's just insane....

The camlock disconnects are roughly $6 for the female ends and $4 for the male ends.

http://www.austinhomebrew.com/advanced_search_result.php?keywords=camlock

I've been lusting over the B3 QD's for quite a while and I've just not been a fan of the camlock style, but the price on those at Austin sure is tempting.

Stainless steel is easier to clean, stronger, and holds up better over the years to contact with acidic liquids such as beer.

I chose to go with stainless steel as much as possible in my setup over other metals such as copper, brass, or aluminum.

And yes, stainless also looks nicer.



Kal

Bottom line. If you can't afford stainless, brass is perfectly fine and poses no health risks.

i agree if it's not in the budget then brass is it!

or one could starve their kids and get SS

rugman said:

or one could starve their kids and get SS

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Sadly, I don't have any kids to starve, and I already starve myself to afford some things (not that you'd notice from my figure.)

One other reason to go stainless: If you happen to have a Master Plumber or two in the house who like to play with your fittings as you're working on projects, they're much less likely to scratch or dent the fixtures/threads.



(I'm not exactly sure what he's building there...)

Kal

I choose to disregard the appearance or "bling" factor, as all this stuff sits in my garage, not on display at the Museum of Modern Art.

As with several other topics that get brought up repeatedly on beer forums, I'm still waiting to see any actual DATA to prove that brass fittings are any danger to my (or anyone else's health). In addition to brewing, I also reload, and so have been in recurrent contact with lead for 40 years. I'm in almost disgustingly good health, and the residual lead levels in my bloodstream are nominal.

(If you want to freak out about heavy metals, go check out the components of the amalgam in the fillings in teeth. Given the mercury content, I should have been dead many times over. Surprise! I'm not........)

rico567 said:

As with several other topics that get brought up repeatedly on beer forums, I'm still waiting to see any actual DATA to prove that brass fittings are any danger to my (or anyone else's health).

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Don't think you'll find it as I don't think that lead in brass is an issue once pickled.

I use stainless for the same reason that professional breweries only use stainless: Easier to clean, stronger, and holds up better over the years to contact with acidic liquids such as beer.

Kal

JonW said:

I think I can do basic math. I was actually estimating on the low side. I have 16 pair of QD's. I don't do any hose swaps during brewing and my setup is plumbed from the HLT all the way to the fermenter.

B3's price for a set is only for threaded or barbed - if you want to mix the fittings, the price jumps up. I think most people probably want threaded males on the equipment and barbed females on the hoses.

16 x $10.95 for threaded male QD's is $175.20
16 x $21.50 for barbed female QD's is $344.00

Total cost for SS QD sets would be $519.20

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I stand correct, you must have one hell of a brew-rig.

Brass is used very frequently in almost every home that has a municipal water source... most water meters are brass and cast iron... not to mention all the brass plumbing pieces (ball/gate valves, bushings, reducers, tailpieces, etc) that are used pretty much everywhere in home plumbing. The higher temperatures and lower PH levels of brewing might play a small role to make things different, but I wouldn't worry about using brass fittings in a home brewery at all.

Brew-boy said:

I stand correct, you must have one hell of a brew-rig.

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It's getting there! Here's a quick pic from yesterdays brew day. I'm stripping everything off of it in the next week to send it for powder coating.

I recently build my first all-grain system & spent alot of time researching the subject. What I still don't know is whether the amount of lead (or other metals / substances) leached into solution would be enough to have even a minimal health impact.

What I do know, however, is that lead WILL leach from brass even in water alone, and that the leaching is significantly increased in an acidic solution - which mash/wort is. So I erred on the side of safety and went w/ SS on anything contacting wort. I did use brass on the HLT, however.

doctorRobert said:

Yup, and then buy a house that's way too big and a big fancy car that I can get a 7 year loan on and the bank will always have the money! isn't that a great idea!!!

Just because you justify something like that, doesn't mean it's a smart idea. Money is still money. take those savings and brew more beer!

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Damn straight....how many batches can you brew with 450 bucks not spent on pretty fittings. Answer--craploads. I don't criticize anyone if they want a blinged-out system, but my beer tastes just fine with brass. I'm Scottish and therefore am cheep.

kal said:

Stainless steel is easier to clean, stronger, and holds up better over the years to contact with acidic liquids such as beer.

I chose to go with stainless steel as much as possible in my setup over other metals such as copper, brass, or aluminum.

And yes, stainless also looks nicer.

Kal

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seriously, kal? big, fancy stainless QD's and then crappy hose clamps? :cross:

you need some OETIKER clamps!!



oh, and as for the brass vs stainless debate... i have a mixed bag of both in my brewery, but one day it will be all stainless.

JonW said:

It's getting there! Here's a quick pic from yesterdays brew day. I'm stripping everything off of it in the next week to send it for powder coating.

View attachment 17455

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Any more insight on how you plumbed your rig? I am looking into hard plumbing mine with stainless pipe or tubing but trying to wrap my head around the "T"'s and valves configuration to:
a). recirculate my HLT alone
b). pump water from my HLT to the bottom of my MT
c). recirculate my MT alone
d). pump from the bottom of the MT to the bottom of the BK while pumping sparge water from the HLT to the top of the MT (fly sparge).
e). recirculate the BK alone while pumping ice water from my HLT to an IC on the BK and back to the HLT.

Whew.

edit: I have 2 pumps at the moment.

slakwhere said:

you need some OETIKER clamps!!

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Um, kal...love your design but I gotta go +1 here...sorry

I'll be posting up a build thread pretty soon, but in the mean time, here's a a simple graphic on the liquid flow.

slakwhere said:

seriously, kal? big, fancy stainless QD's and then crappy hose clamps? :cross:

you need some OETIKER clamps!!

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Yup. I could have used Oetiker I suppose. Do they have ones that work on soft silicone hose?

The ones I use are far from crappy however - they're smooth band hose clamps made specially for use with silicone hose. I talk about them here: http://www.theelectricbrewery.com/hoses?page=4

They're availalble at McMaster Carr here: http://www.mcmaster.com/#5076k14

Part # 5076k14

Catalog page: http://www.mcmaster.com/#catalog/116/257/=9joztn

Type 316 Stainless Steel Smooth-Band Worm-Drive Hose and Tube Clamps

Excellent corrosion resistance is only one reason to use these all-Type 316 stainless steel clamps—they also have a
smooth band with rolled edges to prevent them from cutting into hoses and tubes. They’re ideal for use with silicone
hoses and tubes. Clamps are reusable. The band is 1/2 wide and 0.031 thick. Tighten with a 9/32 (7 mm) hex nutdriver.
Temperature range is –40° to +1200° F. Clamps meet SAE J1508.
Note: When choosing a clamp, measure the outside diameter of your hose or tube with the fitting installed.

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These are not "standard" worm clamps like the ones you get at home depot. I've used a lot of those too and these ones are considerably better built.

Kal

JonW said:

I'll be posting up a build thread pretty soon, but in the mean time, here's a a simple graphic on the liquid flow.

View attachment 17750

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Thanks Jon! Simple. I like it. One more pump would be the easiest I think.

kal said:

These are not "standard" worm clamps like the ones you get at home depot. I've used a lot of those too and these ones are considerably better built.

Kal

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I've used the HD ones and they do shred the tubing. Have you used the plastic snap-grip style ones? (McMaster #9579K67). I'm quite interested in using these when I put the SS QD's on. I used them on my car for a supercharger intercooler setup and they seem to work quite well.