Malt-Forward Yeast?

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ksbrain

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I mainly use US-05 but I'm looking for a more malt-forward yeast for brown ales. I tried S-04 but I really don't like diacetyl. I've been reading about WLP028, but I'm not convinced it will have much less diacetyl. So now I'm thinking of maybe WY1007. Maybe Nottingham?
 
We are lucky to be able to get Wyeast 1968 from a local brewery and use it nearly exclusively. It definitely makes a good brown ale and I consider it to produce a malty beer. 1968 is also known for it's diacetyl production. A couple of keys to reducing diacetyl in your finished beer are not to rush fermentation (2-3 week minimum), and to raise the temperature towards the end of fermentation. We will generally ferment at the desired temp for 4 or 5 days and then ramp the temperature up towards the end. I have never detected diacetyl in our beers. Check out thebrewingnetwork.com and the Jamil show for a Moose Drool clone featuring Wyeast 1968. We brewed it and it turned out pretty darn good. We've also brewed the Dogfish Head Indian Brown recipe on brew365.com with 1968 and it turned out great as well.
 
My understanding is that White Labs WLP002 and Wyeast 1968 are the same yeast strain. +1 on malt forward for both of them.
 
Also Wyeast 1728 is a pretty nice yeast. It's good for scottish ales which are typically malt-forward beers.
 
From the description on Wyeast's site 1338 doesn't make much diacetyl, so that sounds like the winner so far.
 
Though I've not brewed a brown ale, I think Denny's fav would fit well as a malt forward yeast.

Wyeast 2450PC
Denny’s Favorite 50

A mainstay of one of our local homebrewers, Mr. Denny Conn, this terrific all-round yeast can be used for almost any style beer. It is unique in that it produces a big mouthfeel and helps accentuate the malt, caramel, or fruit character of a beer without being sweet or under-attenuating. A great yeast for extract brewers and for fruit beers.

Attenuation 74-76%
Alc. Tolerance 10%
Flocculation low
Temperature Range 60-70ºF (15-21ºC)
 
Though I've not brewed a brown ale, I think Denny's fav would fit well as a malt forward yeast.

Wyeast 2450PC
Denny’s Favorite 50

That's what I was going to say- I use that yeast for just about everything now! It accentuates the malt without being underattenuating, so it's even good in pale ales, but it's awesome in my stout.
 
I mainly use US-05 but I'm looking for a more malt-forward yeast for brown ales. I tried S-04 but I really don't like diacetyl. I've been reading about WLP028, but I'm not convinced it will have much less diacetyl. So now I'm thinking of maybe WY1007. Maybe Nottingham?

WLP029 or Nottingham. I actually think that WLP029 really allows the flavor of the malt come forward.
 
Denny's favorite is not always available, right?

I think that is correct, but they have a couple of sellers who always have it, if that makes sense. I think Ed from Brewmaster's Warehouse said something about it being seasonal to most retailers, but a few get it all year round.
 
I was just looking at the WLP mini-ferment data and WLP028 has actually less diacetyl than WLP001, so that's back at the top of my list. Though I'm tempted by the WY1450. I wish Wyeast had mini-ferment tables like White Labs. And I wish White Labs had it for all varieties.

I'm building up my list of options. Ultimately it comes down to what they have at the LHBS.

Thanks everyone for the input. Keep it coming!
 
I've used 1338 for lots of kinds of beer, it's been my house strain for the past six months. Very clean, very malty. Made a great brown and an awesome red.
 
Just sampled my 5-day-old WY1338 American Amber. The gravity is still a little high (OG 1.060, current SG 1.024), but there's a topper of foam on the beer, so I'm optimistic. But even at this young age, the beer is awesome! Great malty/sweet flavor (surely in part to the high gravity) BUT absolutely no diacetyl or other undesirable flavors. Can't wait for this one to be done! And I can't wait to use this yeast again!!
 
I love english yeasts that are malt-forward, of these for my brown ales I've found the best are WLP005 (ringwood) and WLP037 (Samuel Smith's yeast). IMHO of course, and YMMV. I prefer the 037, but it's a platinum strain, and is not always available.
 
What I most wanted to avoid was Diacetyl, which I would expect to be quite plentiful in most English yeast.

I was just reading that WY1338 is a "top cropping" yeast, which means that the yeast rises to the top when it's done, rather than fall to the bottom, and that I should shake up the carboy every few days to try to get the yeast back into the beer so it can finish up. You who have used WY1338/WLP011 - is this true?
 
What I most wanted to avoid was Diacetyl, which I would expect to be quite plentiful in most English yeast.

If you keep your temps in check and do a diacetyl rest then you won't need to worry about catching any. WLP005 does put out a bit if you don't keep it in control, but you keep watch and it'll be fine.
 
Yeast reabsorbs the diacetyl it creates unless the yeast is stressed or unhealthy. If you pitch a good quantity of healthy yeast then diacetyl is never an issue. Top cropping is not an issue either as it will eventually fall out of solution. The saying RDWHAHB kind of gets on my nerves but I think you should consider it.
 
I'm relaxed and full of homebrew but I want better attenuation! I am used to US-05 which you can't stop most of the time.

I did find that my S-04 performed a lot better on a repitch which was more in line with an adequate cell count, but dry out of the packet it might as well have been buttered popcorn beer to me. I'm really not a fan of the big D. Maybe I'm overly sensitive to it, but it's one of the main turnoffs to me with most commercial beers. Since that certain taste is a big part of English beers and is often referred to as "malty" I was very wary choosing a strain.

Bottom line is I'm pretty happy with this yeast, and once I get 1338/011 attenuating well I'll be very happy. I'm expecting that my next pitches with the harvested yeast will go all the way.
 
i was pretty happy with wy 1272 american ale 2. floculated well, decent attenuation.... fruity and malty, made a my most popular beer yet... simcoe pale ALE
 
I'm relaxed and full of homebrew but I want better attenuation! I am used to US-05 which you can't stop most of the time.

I did find that my S-04 performed a lot better on a repitch which was more in line with an adequate cell count, but dry out of the packet it might as well have been buttered popcorn beer to me. I'm really not a fan of the big D. Maybe I'm overly sensitive to it, but it's one of the main turnoffs to me with most commercial beers. Since that certain taste is a big part of English beers and is often referred to as "malty" I was very wary choosing a strain.

Bottom line is I'm pretty happy with this yeast, and once I get 1338/011 attenuating well I'll be very happy. I'm expecting that my next pitches with the harvested yeast will go all the way.

I don’t usually work with dry yeast but I can say that repitching will give you better results. I agree diacetyl is the worst off flavor in beer and just a little bit will spoil a batch. A few tips for pitching healthy liquid yeast would be building the yeast by stepping it up every 12 – 15 hours and pitching it in another 12 – 15 hours. Also pitch cold by a few degrees and let it rise to your ferment temp. By doing this you will get low ester production and no diacetyl. Ale yeast usually reabsorbs diacetyl more efficiently then lager yeast (due to the temps.) and shouldn’t be a problem unless you are pitching unhealthy yeast.
BTW…didn’t mean any disrespect by the RDWHAHB comment. Just thought you might be over thinking it.
 
So I've used the 1338 for a few generations now and it never fully attenuates. I'm disappointed. I like the flavor, but hate the attenuation. I'm thinking of double pitching it with US-05 next time to get the attenuation of US-05 and the flavor of 1338.
 
I'm currently using wlp028 on a 1.060 scottish ale and from the gravity samples i tasted it's definetly malt forward, no diacetyl. Definetly a top cropper, looks like 1inch yeast cake on top of the beer.
 
I'm thinking of double pitching it with US-05 next time to get the attenuation of US-05 and the flavor of 1338.

Instead of overpitching, which will oversurpress esters and may give you an overly phenolic beer, just use your fermentation temps to control diacetyl. If the temp slowly rise throughout the fermentation process (a degree or two a day) to a warm temp at the end, held for a few days post fermentation, will help keep the yeast extra active at the end. The more active they are at the end, the more diacetyl they reabsorb.
 
This is quite incorrect.

See the analyses of WLP001 and WLP013 and WLP023, for example, here:
http://www.whitelabs.com/beer/strains_wlp001.html
http://www.whitelabs.com/beer/strains_wlp013.html
http://www.whitelabs.com/beer/strains_wlp023.html

'British' does not automatically equal 'diacetyl' - usually, in fact, it's quite the opposite

You’re mostly right, Diacetyl is usually a problem with lagers but WLP 002 and Wyeast 1968 (conveniently left out of the links provided) does throw diacetyl when yeast is in poor health or in the wrong temp. range. This yeast is one of the classic English strains and is the yeast I use most often when making English ales. I know some of the other American and English Ale yeast don’t produce as much diacetyl as this one.
 
I'm finding now that the beer keeps fermenting slowly even after kegging. For scheduling reasons, I had to keg some of this 1338 beer after two weeks in the fermenter (which is usually plenty of time for US-05). But they were massively underattenuated at the time. I figured I'd add more yeast from a starter made the next brew day and let them go from there. But when I went to pop the lid of the keg to take a gravity sample, it let out tons of gas and eventually spit foam all over the place. I guess they're still working in there.

So in the future, I'll use 1338 as long as I have three weeks to keep it in primary, and hopefully that will be enough time.
 
I have a brown going with 1338 right now. I'll let you know how it turns out in about 2 weeks. I'm transferring Sunday, so I'll also let you know how the sample is.
 
The Edinburgh strain WLP 028 is one of my house yeasts now (with California Ale) - malt forward and clean (at mid to upper 60s fermentation temps), a versatile yeast that I've used in stouts, pale ales, red ales and I even use it in sparkling cider.
 
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